How Are The Garett 28-60r -5 Turbos On A Gtr?

[Mike__]

good thread thread to add to the "quick Reference guide' sticky

[JAGR33]

The 2860-5's are the best value for money and make the 2530's look quite silly as far as response and mid range power. The 2530 is still a great turbo to make big power, but just don't have the ability that the -5's do in response/low-mid range power. I would prefer to have a car with better average power than a car with big top end power, but hey that's just me..

And the comment 'HKS turbos are better than the Garret turbos' is a bit far fetched. I guess if you rely on these forums to make a decision then I can see where your coming from. There are so many other cases that I know of that is not reported to the rb26 sticky thread that could probably change your mind...

This is my opinion....

[rev210]

The 2860-5's are the best value for money and make the 2530's look quite silly as far as response and mid range power. The 2530 is still a great turbo to make big power, but just don't have the ability that the -5's do in response/low-mid range power. I would prefer to have a car with better average power than a car with big top end power, but hey that's just me..

And the comment 'HKS turbos are better than the Garret turbos' is a bit far fetched. I guess if you rely on these forums to make a decision then I can see where your coming from. There are so many other cases that I know of that is not reported to the rb26 sticky thread that could probably change your mind...

This is my opinion....

It would be great to have the data on hand if you are able to get hold of the additional info on these examples.

The forum has a half decent collection of data and hopefully examples you mention can be added to quantify things. For someone wanting a fairly non-bias analysis they are going to find it hard to beat the kind of impartial info that gets put up in the turbo upgrade thread.

Based on the graphs availible the response and mid range power on the -5's is a long way from what you are talking about.

The lower rpm range favours the GT-SS. The -5's and 2530's make up some ground in the top end.

Taking cars that make more than 400rwhp, std stroke, bp98.

average power over;

110kmh

130kmh

150kmh

180kmh

GT-SS = 265rwkw

2530s = 284rwkw

-5's = 242rwkw

taking just 110kmh & 130kmh to indicate the 'reponse' and mid range

GT-SS = 218rwkw

2530s = 196rwkw

-5's = 174rwkw

I think we would all be happy to see some examples of -5's kicking some butt. However there aren't any so far that can lay claim to definative 2530 ass-kickers as far as response goes or for that matter peak power.

So far these results don't support the idea that simply grabbing a set of cheap -5's are going to make the 2530's look silly.

Got a long way to go to make the Mines car look silly but, so far the lowly guys on the forum are doing a good enough job of defending them. To get the point across some actual data might help the -5's case.

Edited March 31, 2008 by rev210

[700HP-GTR33]

It is not just about kw's...........

It is about Torque...KW's.....Response........Traction......How you set up your car......

No mods mean......GT-ss Turbo's......

Exhaust Cams Injectors PFC etc is a 2530 or -5 Turbo.

All Dyno's reading differ............to go on all the figures as Gospel is wrong.

Engines differ...same engine same year same age same K's can read 20 to 30 kw's different on the same dyno.

My Turbo's give me positive boost as low as 2700RPM...and reach 1.15 Bar at 5K..when pushed.

In second gear this is over the 120km an hour.

At 4800RPM I get 948Nm of Torque.....this can only be achieved by -5's or 2530's..unless you go single or -10(ie)larger

Cams, timing tuner can play a big difference.

-5's or 2530's have slight differences....HKS has managed to draw slightly higher figures..but not as

what rev210 has suggested.

And for the money....there is no way you can tell on the road unless you want to risk your license.

-5's will be great for your needs........but make sure your tuning is a safe one.

The power output can if not tuned properly be too much for your stock motor.

[GTRBOS]

It is not just about kw's...........

It is about Torque...KW's.....Response........Traction......How you set up your car......

No mods mean......GT-ss Turbo's......

Exhaust Cams Injectors PFC etc is a 2530 or -5 Turbo.

All Dyno's reading differ............to go on all the figures as Gospel is wrong.

Engines differ...same engine same year same age same K's can read 20 to 30 kw's different on the same dyno.

My Turbo's give me positive boost as low as 2700RPM...and reach 1.15 Bar at 5K..when pushed.

In second gear this is over the 120km an hour.

At 4800RPM I get 948Nm of Torque.....this can only be achieved by -5's or 2530's..unless you go single or -10(ie)larger

Cams, timing tuner can play a big difference.

-5's or 2530's have slight differences....HKS has managed to draw slightly higher figures..but not as

what rev210 has suggested.

And for the money....there is no way you can tell on the road unless you want to risk your license.

-5's will be great for your needs........but make sure your tuning is a safe one.

The power output can if not tuned properly be too much for your stock motor.

sounds pretty good mate, im not intersted in the gt/ss what so ever and im afetr more then 350rwkw and with them turbos i would imagine you would have to push it pretty hard, i wouldnt mind 350-370rwkw with a nice safe tune but i haver the supporting mods now, all i need is the cams and injectors which they are coming soon but straight after that i think im going to stick with the -5 turbos, like i hear they are very good and my mechanic says they are a really good turbo and he knows about his gtr like heaps, he doesnt recommend me to get 25/30 because i think he knows thats not the sort of power im after, i told him that i want response and top end aswell, he said the -5 turbos are spot on for you but hey all i want to know is what is a better turbso to suit me and that is going to be nice and safe for my bottom end, i know i will have the mods to support nearly any of these turbos but at the end of the day the car is going to need a rebuild but i really want to make it as reliable as i can.. true...

but can yous guys just tell me what will suit me better out of these turbos, its really got me confused but i just dont want to stuff up at the end,

cheers guys

[djr81]

The bottom line is that unless someone has the compressor maps for the HKS turbos (The garrett ones are freely available) comparing the two is subjective as much as anything.

Comparing different dynos with different tunes & RB's with different bolt ons & in differing condition is difficult to impossible.

Oh and just to declare my prejudice I have the dash fives. They are a nice turbo, but for a street car you can get into more than enough trouble with stock cams & HKS SS turbs.

Either turbo (ie a 2530 or a 2860 dash 5) will outperform an unopened RB26.

[BoostdR]

Find a new mechanic. If he said that, it's possible he doesn't have much of a clue. You don't want someone like that touching your car ever.

The top end on HKS 2530's ? well over 400rwkw good enough for you?

GT-SS will get you the better part of 350rwkw or more setup right.

You will find that the average power made by the people with HKS turbo variants is higher than the garrett, when looking through the RB26 turbo upgrade sticky. Apples for apples they seem to work better. The HKS tweaks are worth the extra.

Rev

I think your estimates are a little unrealistic even though the figures are proven achievable.

For the average builder who doesn't run race fuel or another $20,000 of added boltons.

You can expect

300-330rwkw from GT-SS's

350-370rwkw from 2530's

330-355rwkw from 2860R-5's

I have used both 2530's and the -5's. I find the -5's to be much more useable for daily driving and track days. They start making +ve boost at 1600rpm...so pretty much have positive pressure when ever I want it. They make 1 bar of boost at 4050rpm. The 2530's have a slighly larger compressor(.5mm) and a trim suited to higher boost coupled with the diiferent HKS turbine Housing...they look the same but they are definately not internally. The 2530's gave the impression of feeling fast as the boost response was quite servere (sledgehammer) I find the -5's to be much more progressive with MORE boost at lower revs but very simliar rpm range where 1bar is made.

Edited March 31, 2008 by BoostdR

[TommO]

But once again, it shows you can't easily compare results... I have 2860-5's on a pretty much stockish GTR (stock bottom end, cams 260/260 9.15mm) and don't get full boost until 4700rpm. GTRSean gets full boost at 4800rpm with the 2530s.

I imagine you have a fair few airflow mods BoostdR, because to get full boost at 4050rpm is significantly different to what my motor is seeing, or something weird is going on with GTRSean and my cars

Edited March 31, 2008 by TommO

[djr81]

But once again, it shows you can't easily compare results... I have 2860-5's on a pretty much stockish GTR (stock bottom end, cams 260/260 9.15mm) and don't get full boost until 4700rpm. GTRSean gets full boost at 4800rpm with the 2530s.

I imagine you have a fair few airflow mods BoostdR, because to get full boost at 4050rpm is significantly different to what my motor is seeing, or something weird is going on with GTRSean and my cars

Well I have the same cams, turbos and get full boost by 4500rpm.

But then again I am only running 15# for a desultory 435rwhp and haven't tuned the cam gears.

So I guess is all relative.

How much power have you got at 4000rpm? Mine is about 165rwhp @4000rpm.

Edited March 31, 2008 by djr81

[TommO]

Around 140kw@4, pretty shocking really. Well, it sounds bad.. but the car itself drives really nice. I have a fairly solid power curve from 5200rpm to 8000rpm. I don't want to really talk about my car in here anyway, as it's not the right place to do it, rather turbo choices.

If I was buying again on a stock motor with no intention to build it, I think i'd go GT-SSs.

[djr81]

Me too.

Or some 2860 707160-7 ie the dash 7 version.

Edited March 31, 2008 by djr81

[BoostdR]

But once again, it shows you can't easily compare results... I have 2860-5's on a pretty much stockish GTR (stock bottom end, cams 260/260 9.15mm) and don't get full boost until 4700rpm. GTRSean gets full boost at 4800rpm with the 2530s.

I imagine you have a fair few airflow mods BoostdR, because to get full boost at 4050rpm is significantly different to what my motor is seeing, or something weird is going on with GTRSean and my cars

hey TommO!

Its BOOSTD here, my account has been stuffed for a while now....tried to email Cristian to fix but no reply.

I wish I had full boost by 4050rpm....as I stated it was 1bar at that level...full boost for me is anywere between 1.6-2bar depending on the fuel weather etc.

[GTRBOS]

grrr.... i dont really know what tyo go for lol, -5 sound like they are a good turbo but the more discussion we have between he 25/30 and the -5 the more info i can get on both of them,

i just got a 100mm trust fmic bolted on but before i had that i was making 240kw at all 4s but tthe car needs a slight tune ever since ig ot the fmic installed as everyone should know,

with the power im making now at about 13psi if i do get the -5 installed in my gtr what sort of power would i making at the same boost level and what rpm will boost kick in and how will my top end power be,

and can someone also tell me what sort of power will the 25/30 be making at the same boost level and also how will the top end power be,

im really confused of what to get, i hate when im in this situation really, so whick turbos do you think will hit boost much quicker and be a better top end

[BoostdR]

grrr.... i dont really know what tyo go for lol, -5 sound like they are a good turbo but the more discussion we have between he 25/30 and the -5 the more info i can get on both of them,

i just got a 100mm trust fmic bolted on but before i had that i was making 240kw at all 4s but tthe car needs a slight tune ever since ig ot the fmic installed as everyone should know,

with the power im making now at about 13psi if i do get the -5 installed in my gtr what sort of power would i making at the same boost level and what rpm will boost kick in and how will my top end power be,

and can someone also tell me what sort of power will the 25/30 be making at the same boost level and also how will the top end power be,

im really confused of what to get, i hate when im in this situation really, so whick turbos do you think will hit boost much quicker and be a better top end

Power will kick in that same time no matter what boost level.

I would expect +ve boost below 2000rpm with -5's and maybe 280rwkw @13psi (1.6bar or 23.5psi is what you will need to make 350rwkw)

On 2530's I would expect +ve boost almost 1000rpm later but the time it takes to reach the same level is less(they spool quicker after the late start...) I would expect full boost a little later.

I have tired both with the same mod's. The simplest way to put it is the -5's lack the top end punch but make up for it with a broader torque curve...."and it's torque that wins races" I used to slip the clutch quite often but hardly ever do now.

I'm just about to remove mine after 6,000km's as I have HKS GTRS's and a RB26/30 to go in. PM me if you want some and I'll do you a good deal.

[TommO]

grrr.... i dont really know what tyo go for lol, -5 sound like they are a good turbo but the more discussion we have between he 25/30 and the -5 the more info i can get on both of them,

i just got a 100mm trust fmic bolted on but before i had that i was making 240kw at all 4s but tthe car needs a slight tune ever since ig ot the fmic installed as everyone should know,

with the power im making now at about 13psi if i do get the -5 installed in my gtr what sort of power would i making at the same boost level and what rpm will boost kick in and how will my top end power be,

and can someone also tell me what sort of power will the 25/30 be making at the same boost level and also how will the top end power be,

If you intended to build your motor ($8k), go 2860-5s or 2530s.

If you don't, go 2860-7s or GT-SSs.

You can't really go wrong with either the HKS or Garrett version IMO

[rb26s13]

my experience with the -5's

stockish gtr... stock computer stock motor stock dump/fronts 14psi at 4800rpm

slightly worked rb26... 260 10.25 cams porting injectors afm's custom twin 3inch into single 4 exhaust system and i had 15psi at 3500rpm.. stock bottomend tho

im now licenseless and doin the motor for the gtr to hopefully achieve same sorta results as my silvia did with the 26 and these turbos

[JAGR33]

It would be great to have the data on hand if you are able to get hold of the additional info on these examples.

The forum has a half decent collection of data and hopefully examples you mention can be added to quantify things. For someone wanting a fairly non-bias analysis they are going to find it hard to beat the kind of impartial info that gets put up in the turbo upgrade thread.

Based on the graphs availible the response and mid range power on the -5's is a long way from what you are talking about.

The lower rpm range favours the GT-SS. The -5's and 2530's make up some ground in the top end.

Taking cars that make more than 400rwhp, std stroke, bp98.

average power over;

110kmh

130kmh

150kmh

180kmh

GT-SS = 265rwkw

2530s = 284rwkw

-5's = 242rwkw

taking just 110kmh & 130kmh to indicate the 'reponse' and mid range

GT-SS = 218rwkw

2530s = 196rwkw

-5's = 174rwkw

I think we would all be happy to see some examples of -5's kicking some butt. However there aren't any so far that can lay claim to definative 2530 ass-kickers as far as response goes or for that matter peak power.

So far these results don't support the idea that simply grabbing a set of cheap -5's are going to make the 2530's look silly.

Got a long way to go to make the Mines car look silly but, so far the lowly guys on the forum are doing a good enough job of defending them. To get the point across some actual data might help the -5's case.

Do you seriously think comparing the results in the sticky thread is a fair and accurate comparison?? Very far from it, as djr81 pointed out how can you compare with different cars with different boltons with different dynos with different tuners???

BoostdR has a comparison with his 2530's and -5's, using the same engine and the same dyno, I'm sure his results speak for themselves..

And there is no mention of the GTSS's in my previous response so I was not including them in my comparison..

And why does the Mines car have so much response and revs so quickly in the infamous vid of it getting around that tight little gokart track??? Maybe the answer has nothing to do with what's in the engine bay...

[rev210]

Just devils advocate here JAGR33

Is fairness in comparsion then only acheived by comparing one car with itself, on the same dyno, with the same bolt ons and the same tuner?

That means even BoostR's results aren't meaningful to my car and by the same logic they aren't meaningful to my choice between 2530's and -5's given my car/tuner/dyno/bolt ons are different.

I could follow your opinion expressed as my guide but, I kinda don't know you ( I'm sure your a top bloke tho') and I can't see why you hold an answer on this subject yet. I can't see how the -5's make the 2530's look silly as yet?

I'm certainly not elevating myself to an expert here as all I did was took a little time to see if the only data we have makes a case for the -5's superiority. It doesn't but, that needn't be the end of the examination. There are a few guys like BoostR who are now offering some driving insights. I'd like to consider that worth some weight even though cars/mods/tuner are different to mine. And if we allow that sort of comparison then giving a little weight to the data we have is sensible too.

How many times do people ask questions like; "what sort of power can I expect?" "what sort of power do these turbo's make?"

The boost building thing is interesting. Would people agree that more boost building earlier is only good if it leads to the expected extra power at lower rpms?

Again from the examples we have, I see that in the 'best' examples of the 2530's both on unopened and built motors produce a better bottom end power experience than the best examples we have of the -5's. This could be due to tuning so it would be worth trying to see if it is or not. This perhaps will help guys out with -5's and other turbos if it's something fundamental. My guess is the cam timing and possibly on the built motors compression ratio/setup but, what are the specifics?

Not trying to bash the -5's here either. I'd rather like to become a believer too given they are so cheap.

Edited March 31, 2008 by rev210

[Swiper the Fox]

And why does the Mines car have so much response and revs so quickly in the infamous vid of it getting around that tight little gokart track??? Maybe the answer has nothing to do with what's in the engine bay...

No its got something to do with the diff ratio's fitted.

[Roy]

There are enough people that have gone from 2530s to -5 these days and these people prefer the way and the power the -5s make power. Thats enough for me. Trying to compare all the other results makes life too confusing.

So stuff both turbos off. Someone get busy with a kkk ir IHI catalogue and try some different turbos