Insulating Intercooler Pipes

[Sydneykid]

someone else brought up this point before - without the figures.

does it mean intercooler heatsoak is not an issue either?

Intercoolers are heat transfer devices, pipework isn't. Intercoolers have far more surface area, inside and out, so the air is in contact for much longer. Hence it has time to transfer heat.

Cheers

Gary

[GeeTR]

Interesting.

To throw into the mixing pot, GTR factory rubber pipes into the IC and out of the IC... are insulated with a layer of some fibrous mat, then another layer of thin rubber sheet.

[R31Nismoid]

^^ only in certain places though isnt it?

I cant remember exactly as mine is half missing

[R31Nismoid]

but whats sandwiched in the middle?

coz the one i used looks like wetsuit too.

Nothing?

If its the proper stuff it'll be pure material, some are think (4mm) and some are thicker.

Some stubbies have the foam and a layer either side.

Its like how many ways to skin a cat, many ways to make a stubbie holder

[Sydneykid]

Interesting.

To throw into the mixing pot, GTR factory rubber pipes into the IC and out of the IC... are insulated with a layer of some fibrous mat, then another layer of thin rubber sheet.

NVH reduction

Cheers

Gary

[djr81]

There are two different issues.

1: Heat soak at idle

2: Heat transfer on the move.

1. Heat soak for piping can be an issue at idle. Far less of an issue that that for uncovered pod filters however & not really worth worrying about.. The area the Gt-R has insulated is basically where the hot air exits the radiator.

Question - there is a temp read out available on the Power fc for the air inlet. Where is the sensor located?

2: Not an issue because the volume of air running through the inlet pipes is far, far larger than the transference of heat through it.

[Beer Baron]

it's just in the top at the entry to the plenum. about where the throttle would be if it were a single throttle set-up.

[R338OY]

Question: If heat transference is minimal between piping and compressed air after the intercooler , why do we see intake pipes and manifolds being sprayed with nitrogen gas (or whatever it is) during dyno runs, i.e. at AutoSalon?

Edited April 18, 2008 by R338OY

[Fixxxer]

I understand the flow characteristics of an engine.

Ohh, and this is on an RB20, 0.8bar.

I'm not so much interested in peak figures, ie.., wide open throttle, but also what it may do at other part openings of the throttle, or response, etc...

It cost me $16.50, and I think it's more than enough, worth a try no doubt?

Fixxxer

[nuclear_skyline]

hmm, i'm very interested....

My cooler (GReddy type M) is really efficient. Qualify: the inlet side of the cooler is damn hot, can't hold hand on it for long after spirited driving, and the outlet side is quite cool, just like metal thats been out of the sun...

On the other hand, the pipework that runs behind the radiator is damn hot... I would be very interested in something that reduced the pipe's heat and also made it look less aftermarket when the coppers open the lid....

(I believe they wont be able to see the fridge door cooler at the front, they'll look straight past it)

[DECIM8]

According to Hot4's Which we all know is a great basis for tuning cars* supposedly the change in air heat during the movement through the intercooler pipes is about 0.02 so I say make up with that with a bigger turbo

Oh and if u insulate it, it also keeps heat IN

* Not entirely true and could be total misrepresentation of Hot4's

[R338OY]

Oh and if u insulate it, it also keeps heat IN [/quote

Good point. I'd like to know what difference the ambient air passing over the IC piping behind the radiator makes to pipe temps. Maybe you're reducing possible cooling by covering the pipe up? Let's not forget all the air swallowed into the engine bay while you're driving. Again, can't assert much without some testing.

*lightglobe moment* what about an official SAU Laboratory which tests forum claims using empirical analysis. Good way to silence the noobs

Edited April 18, 2008 by R338OY

[sonoramicommando]

Intercoolers are heat transfer devices, pipework isn't. Intercoolers have far more surface area, inside and out, so the air is in contact for much longer. Hence it has time to transfer heat.

I'd go along with that in theory - amount heat transferred via pipework is negligible compared to that via intercooler.

But didn't the autospeed article state that there was 7-10°C drop? I can't ignore the empirical results.

[Fixxxer]

Yes, quite rightly the insulation will keep heat in, but essentially the only thing heating things up is the radiator and underbonet temps. There is only a small amount of heat getting in from the connections (rubber/silicone) to the metal components (intake manifold). This small amount of heat when driving is negligible, and would be totally supressed by nice cold air out from the intercooler (which it currently does).

I will post back when I do the mod, including telling you guys if this stuff does work (cooler pipes remain cold), and any changes I notice by my bum dyno on response, part throttle and full throttle.

Fixxxer

[R31Nismoid]

Question: If heat transference is minimal between piping and compressed air after the intercooler , why do we see intake pipes and manifolds being sprayed with nitrogen gas (or whatever it is) during dyno runs, i.e. at AutoSalon?

To cool the air below ambient by making the I/C itself colder than the ambient which is what most I/C's are only even going to achieve, a few deg above ambient.

The gas super cools the I/C and thus brings intake charge down markedly

Similar in purpose to a dry ice cooler.

[psi]

Sydney kid made a few good points..

has anybody thought a little out side of this box though?

What i mean is that the intake manifold is heated and so is the throttle body. So, wrapping the pipe probably wont do a lot for you..

If you live in tropical Queensland (like me), I bypassed the the throttle heater(not advisable if u live in snow, cos the throttle MAY stick!). That made a HUGE difference. the cruise intake temps went from around 78 degrees down to 45ish. Now to do the manifold is a different story. My point is this, IF you are really concerned about dropping more temp, then wrapping the IC pipping is way down on the list.

I wrapped my intake pipe ages ago in beer coolers, after i turned them inside out! I had it originally covered in fibreglass wrap which drove me made EVERYTIME my arm went into the engine bay.. so i swapped them. The pipe is cooler, looks ok in black and has shown zero signs of heat damage of any kind! That said, I only noticed the smallest of improvement, and that was from cruise onto boost.

I put this down to slower moving air that got heat soaked.. but that still doesnt really add up.

If your pipe looks crappy, then dont use beer coolers, go the wet suit option.

but try it out, i already had 20 or so beer coolers.. didnt cost me a single $ to find out!

That help anybody?

[Fixxxer]

Ok, got some prelim results.

Used about 11 coolers, plus about 30cm of heat shield material from Clark Rubber (around over-engine pipe), about 95% coverage all up.

Today was a cool morning driving to work (city). Lots of idle time/stop start traffic.

Pipes = much cooler

Result = Fair improvement to response (from stop to building boost). Didn't have much time to explore on-boost due to traffic, but didn't see much if any improvement (too much airflow), not on my bum dyno anyways.

*Noted air intake pipe was a lot hotter than usual, this was due to longer idle times (more traffic). I have lots of heat shield material left, so will make a proper airbox for the filter.

Fixxxer

[R31Nismoid]

So in-traffic testing was beneficial

Let us know how the non-traffic testing goes

[GeeTR]

Ok, got some prelim results...

How ever much i might/might not, respect your "feel frmda ass" real numbers are important....

*lightglobe moment* what about an official SAU Laboratory which tests forum claims using empirical analysis. Good way to silence the noobs

L0L

Edited April 21, 2008 by GeeTR

[Fixxxer]

Yeah, sorry guys, this was never going to be a rigorous analysis of the results, I do not own a temp guage/thermocouple, it was more of a do it, see if it drives better analysis.

Result was much cooler pipes (hand test), on a drive more prone to heat soak (as verified by the hotter air filter intake pipe not insulated).

I don't know how much dyno testing has proved this (but dyno days with Cryo sprays/water spray on intercoolers has), but it's widely suggested that a temp drop of 4 to 5C yields approx. 1% more power.

Either way, the effect of cooler pipes can only be a good thing for power and/or efficiency.

Fixxxer