Nismo Proto Gtx-1 2500r

[malcolm]

im with you merli.. clean example of a modded 33 gtst.. but i for one have always been under the asumption the skyline GTX was powered by a ca18 in both r32 r33 and r34 models... or was that the GT-Xi... i cant remember either way.

Hi there

I believe that the first use of the the term GTX was in the 1968 KGC-10 2000 GT-X COUPE & SEDAN carrying the L20-E S6 and in 1972 in the KGC- 110 2000 GT-X COUPE & SEDAN, also ordered from factory in the WAGON if the sporty L20-E S6 was your thing.

Then apart from the mention i have with I.D. plates & paperwork in prototype terms it wasnt officially adopted again in a production car until the R34 25L GT-X in 1998.

Interesting how a name or signature goes away then comes back. As with PROTO that appears both on plates and in paperwork i have: PROTO GT-X 1 2500R, not used and then adopted by the PROTO GT-R only to be dropped again along with the signature SKYLINE in favour of simply the new R35 GT-R.

How are we eve expected to keep up with all the models that are released !! - you can start to imagine how hard it is to find out about the "stepping stones" "prototypes" "developmental ideas" that are integral in the shaping of progress yet moved on from quickly by necessity "rarely" to be stumbled upon for long enough to be dually credited.

Though they do exist like the guy in Queensland who's got a Ford Falcon XC Bathurst Cobra prototype. 1 of not many 4 i think. You never know !!

Cheers malcolm

[malcolm]

And they'd be worth more anyway

Hi there chris

I meant more in terms of technology how over time things just dont change, theres a process of trial & error & testing.

....and drifting just wouldnt be the same in a Model T

Still cant figure out whats so interesting about a cars value in terms of $$ DOLLARS $$ ?

If that was the case for me id buy an expensive car.

Cheers malcolm

[malcolm]

The Oxford Dictionary meaning for "PROTOTYPE" -

"a first or preliminary model of something, esp a machine, from which other forms are developed or copied"

"a typical example of something"

"a building, vehicle or other object that acts as a pattern for a full scale model"

(i must be mad replying to my own post!!!)

Hi there !!

If im not mistaken it was Porsche that put in an early order for a couple of R35 GT-R's - not to drive through the german countryside on a picnic no sir'ee !!

They wanted to get their hot little hands on those for no other reason than to have at their disposal a s--t load of prototype parts to scrutinise, test, pull apart, copy, re design, apply to their own cars, hopefully improve on & LEARN something about something !!

If at the end of your day, week, month, year, or life you can look back and honestly say that youve learnt something then youve done ok !!

The only thing that this thread has taught me is "tolerance" - Accepting that we're not all the same with all the same opinions & ideas

For wouldnt it be an awfully boring existence if we were.

Cheers malcolm

Edited May 14, 2008 by malcolm

[10MinuteCar]

i understand where your coming from malcolm, people who read this just misunderstood it as a "Finished Prototype".

So as it is a genuine proto-type, how does the market value on this car get determined? How did the insurance co. determine the value on this car?

[TTT]

what is the result when the cars numbers are put in to FAST?

what is the model details on the rego papers?

I must be stupid.

I just don't understand why it's insurance value is higher than others (apart from being super low km's and in perfect nick)

I understand this:

it was 1 of 3 that were pulled aside for "development".

they were "going to" put different bits on it. it was "going to" be a 450hp car.

"If" it went all the way through to production, it "would have" had some different parts labelled NISMO/Omori or whatever.

Instead, you got a stock'ish R33 GTST which was parked somewhere different than the others in the production line that day, some papers/ideas were drawn up, someone forgot their broken GTR intake plenum in the boot

essentially, it is like this.

some guy gets the house to himself, decides to have a wank.

shuts the blinds, gets his lube and tissues (takes a few tissues out to catch - this is your broken plenum)

pants off

sits in front of the PC strokin his wang while trying to load the webpages he needs.

gets himself half a mongrel, but telstra bigpond is not working properly.

he reboots and tries again but still no good, then he gets the shits.

pull shis pants up, opens the blinds, throws the tissues that he took out in to his pocket (your boot), then goes and does something else.

it was a great idea.

had heaps of potential and even some documentation (cookies file and tissues) but it never eventuated.

So would you say that he had a good old pull and blow his load?

No.

But he was going to.

doesn't mean he did.

it never happened.

same as your car.

I'm curious which insuranec agency has insured it for the figures you are hinting at.

and why?

how is the replacement value higher than any other Stock GTST which has the exact same parts as yours?

it is not a rare collectors item as it never existed.

at best, if it were possible, the insurance value should be the price of a Brand new 1993 GTST (back in 1993) + the cost of all the parts that you have purchased for it + the cost of labour to install and tune etc.

and 100% of these members know that insurance value NEVER increases by $2000 for a new plenum and install (eg)

if that were the case, Deren (check the guy rebuilding his R32 GTR from ground up , new bolts and all in the Maintenance section) should have his car insured for $120K (original price back in 1992) + all the new parts his bought + fitting etc.

what was the reason you gave insurance company X for the value of the car?

[malcolm]

i understand where your coming from malcolm, people who read this just misunderstood it as a "Finished Prototype".

So as it is a genuine proto-type, how does the market value on this car get determined? How did the insurance co. determine the value on this car?

Hi there

Are we talking for now or for when its 25 year old ?

If for now consideration is taken on : cost to replace with something of equal attributes or appeal - now this most likely would not be a gtst as one comparable may not be sourced as its still very much like a brand new car & a little different to an average gtst - that together with a "little" other "cred" & "interest factor"

add to the equation. Its actually not easy determining market value when theres still so many R33's of differing calibres out there.

Now if we're are talking for when its 25 years old it all becomes a lot easier. As with every sporty nissan ever made there comes a time when they all literally disappear from sight. It happened with the 1600 & 2000 FAIRLADY SPORTS of which i one of each at the same time - DATSUN 1600'S,180BSSS's & 240K's all went the same way - NONE !! - or almost none. So when that time comes & theres still a handful of really tidy cars & i mean immaculate well the price goes through the roof. As ive said before the right buyer will pay $20.000+ for a DATSUN 1600 & they were only a little over $3000 new !! The same will happen with the Skylines theres no question about it. Motorists the world over have bestowed on them the exact thing that car manufacturers dream about and strive for. Human beings getting "emotionally involved" in an inanimate object. When theres passion and a cheque book involved anything can and often does happen.

An insurance policy will ultimately when a car is over 25 years old be dictated to by the all the above factors.

Cheers malcolm

[evil_weevil]

which insurance company do you work for?

[malcolm]

what is the result when the cars numbers are put in to FAST?

what is the model details on the rego papers?

I must be stupid.

I just don't understand why it's insurance value is higher than others (apart from being super low km's and in perfect nick)

I understand this:

it was 1 of 3 that were pulled aside for "development".

they were "going to" put different bits on it. it was "going to" be a 450hp car.

"If" it went all the way through to production, it "would have" had some different parts labelled NISMO/Omori or whatever.

Instead, you got a stock'ish R33 GTST which was parked somewhere different than the others in the production line that day, some papers/ideas were drawn up, someone forgot their broken GTR intake plenum in the boot

essentially, it is like this.

some guy gets the house to himself, decides to have a wank.

shuts the blinds, gets his lube and tissues (takes a few tissues out to catch - this is your broken plenum)

pants off

sits in front of the PC strokin his wang while trying to load the webpages he needs.

gets himself half a mongrel, but telstra bigpond is not working properly.

he reboots and tries again but still no good, then he gets the shits.

pull shis pants up, opens the blinds, throws the tissues that he took out in to his pocket (your boot), then goes and does something else.

it was a great idea.

had heaps of potential and even some documentation (cookies file and tissues) but it never eventuated.

So would you say that he had a good old pull and blow his load?

No.

But he was going to.

doesn't mean he did.

it never happened.

same as your car.

I'm curious which insuranec agency has insured it for the figures you are hinting at.

and why?

how is the replacement value higher than any other Stock GTST which has the exact same parts as yours?

it is not a rare collectors item as it never existed.

at best, if it were possible, the insurance value should be the price of a Brand new 1993 GTST (back in 1993) + the cost of all the parts that you have purchased for it + the cost of labour to install and tune etc.

and 100% of these members know that insurance value NEVER increases by $2000 for a new plenum and install (eg)

if that were the case, Deren (check the guy rebuilding his R32 GTR from ground up , new bolts and all in the Maintenance section) should have his car insured for $120K (original price back in 1992) + all the new parts his bought + fitting etc.

what was the reason you gave insurance company X for the value of the car?

Hi there

EXCELLENT POST ! -

Though i think somewhere along the line youve arrived at an insurance figure that would reflect the kind of response i myself would post. Its insured value is a private matter between myself and its insurance broker. Though does not reflect what youre hinting that im hinting at. All ive ever said was that its insured for many times more than an average gtst of whichit is not. However if it can be documented that that a certain car like the R32 youre talking about would cost so much to replace and an insurance broker accepted it then all youd have to do would be pay the premium.Be a bloody big one i bet !!

I pride myself on being as fair as possible & I honestly believe my insurance cover is fitting.

Cheers malcolm

[malcolm]

which insurance company do you work for?

Hi there

Insurance company !! ??

Look at recent "whats your job" ? thread and youll see what i do for work if you can call it work !!

Cheers malcolm

[malcolm]

I must be stupid.

I just don't understand why it's insurance value is higher than others (apart from being super low km's and in perfect nick)

HI there

Sometimes all it takes is mint condition and super low kay's !

Cheers malcolm

[benm]

Sometimes all it takes is mint condition and super low kay's !

That is true, provided it is a model that people have an interest for in 25yrs because it was a limited edition model such as an R32 GTR V-Spec II, R32 GTR N1, Aussie delivered R32 GTR or even an R34 GTR NUR but at the end of the day you have a mint condition R33 GTS-T.

Sell it, buy a clean R33 GTR and drive the thing instead of looking at it!

[malcolm]

That is true, provided it is a model that people have an interest for in 25yrs because it was a limited edition model such as an R32 GTR V-Spec II, R32 GTR N1, Aussie delivered R32 GTR or even an R34 GTR NUR but at the end of the day you have a mint condition R33 GTS-T.

Sell it, buy a clean R33 GTR and drive the thing instead of looking at it!

Hi there

Thankyou for your imput i appreciate it.

I personally dont compare GT-R's to GTST's. I dont see one as being better than the other. They are both excellent in their own right and all together different motoring experiences from each other. Im my opinion to have a mint GTST is every bit as good as having a mint KPGC-10 GT-R or a mint R35 GT-R. 3 excellent and very different cars taken from over 3 decades of motoring.

Nor does a car have to be a limited edition to be appreciated. The Datsun 1600 has proved that & it was essentially just an over engineered 4 door "mums spaceship" that went like stink !

By suggesting that i buy a GT-R and sell the GTST you could be saying that the GT-R is better !!? - its different and does different things. To compare 4WD capabilities against RWD is a "no brainer" and shouldnt be encouraged.

If i were to buy a GT-R i would do just that - but wouldnt sell the other

As far as looking at it - I LOVE LOOKING AT IT !

(we've both shown brilliantly here how 2 enthusiasts can have a common interest in "motoring" yet see it in their own different way} - which is great !!

Cheers malcolm

[TTT]

Firstly, the 1600 has many many years of rally championships under it's belt.

the KPGC-10 GT-R has racing heritage.

the special edition GTR's (V spec, nur, N1 etc) have low number of builds and racing heritage.

in 25 years time and evn now, a perfect condition one with low km's would be worth a mint.

but the point that I and others are trying to get across (unsuccessfully) is that your perfect condition skyline is a run of the mill gunmetal grey 1993 R33 GTS25T with non standard and non limited edition modifications.

and therefore, is not a classic.

it is not rare, and never will be.

It has no racing history.

it has no "special" anything apart from "what could have been" documents.

again.

don't take this as a put down of your car.

I'd love to own it.

it is a beautiful, and tastefully modified R33 GTS25T.

You say the insurance figure of your car is between you and your agency.

and yet you started a competition so others could guess at what it is worth.

with hints that it is a rare car and therefore worth shit loads.

was this just for attention? or are you going to reveal what it is insured for?

and what the reason is for it's value?

My R33 GTS25T of the same year as yours is valued at a massive $13K.

my agency asked for specific photos to cover me for that amount as it is apprently high for this type of car of that age.

I sent the photos, and they agreed it was clean and straight and worth that amount.

so... are you going to reveal all the secrets?

[HuH]

That's an amazing looking R33, mate. The photos are really very well done. You're lucky to have had someone spend the time and effort to get it looking so good.

[TTT]

I think you'll find "he" spent the time and money to make it look that good.

[GTR-32U]

I really dont understand what the obsession is with trying to discredit the car for what it is.The fact is it does have history with Nismo as a prototype. No its not an official wholesale model available to millions of people.Its a car plucked of the production line to be used as a prototype...Nobody ever said it was a one of a kind GTR...just a prototype....The car is absolutely immaculate and worthy of admiration...yet all I hear is nitpicking....

[AdamsR33]

Firstly, the 1600 has many many years of rally championships under it's belt.

the KPGC-10 GT-R has racing heritage.

the special edition GTR's (V spec, nur, N1 etc) have low number of builds and racing heritage.

in 25 years time and evn now, a perfect condition one with low km's would be worth a mint.

but the point that I and others are trying to get across (unsuccessfully) is that your perfect condition skyline is a run of the mill gunmetal grey 1993 R33 GTS25T with non standard and non limited edition modifications.

and therefore, is not a classic.

it is not rare, and never will be.

It has no racing history.

it has no "special" anything apart from "what could have been" documents.

again.

don't take this as a put down of your car.

I'd love to own it.

it is a beautiful, and tastefully modified R33 GTS25T.

You say the insurance figure of your car is between you and your agency.

and yet you started a competition so others could guess at what it is worth.

with hints that it is a rare car and therefore worth shit loads.

was this just for attention? or are you going to reveal what it is insured for?

and what the reason is for it's value?

My R33 GTS25T of the same year as yours is valued at a massive $13K.

my agency asked for specific photos to cover me for that amount as it is apprently high for this type of car of that age.

I sent the photos, and they agreed it was clean and straight and worth that amount.

so... are you going to reveal all the secrets?

HRT 427, a one of a kind built by HRT for developmental reasons, sadly it never became what it could of been. Its based on a CV8, Holden gave it to HRT off the prod line for prototype and developmental use.

There's only one in the world, is this car only worth what a clean well built CV8 is worth? If the bloke who owned it showed you pics of it told you what had been done to it would you doubt him?

Malcom has a truly unique car here, he has shared it with us and all people want to do is doubt everything he is saying, Malcom has no reason to lie about this car, he isn't trying to talk it up to sell it, as he said he would probably never part with it. I'd like to know why you doubt what Malcom is saying about this car anyway?

Why is it so hard for people to think Nissan wouldn't make a prototype car, there have been 1000's of prototypes made but never released by car companies all over the world. Is it so hard to think maybe Nissan wanted a GTST with as much go as a GTR but with rearwheel drive only and hey maybe call it a GTX, or a special GTST based model half way between a GTSt and GTR, is it possible??? Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it didn't happen, just because you can't find anything about it on the interweb doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

I might be totally off line here, but i have no reason to doubt what Malcom is saying, i have met him and studied his car for hours, i wish my GTST locked half as good as this.

[TTT]

HRT actually "made" the 427.

it eventuated.

even if there is only 1.

it is made.

I'll stop.

I was not putting his car down.

I'm just trying to find out the details of this car as in what it is insured as.

what it comes up as in FAST direct from Nissan etc.

I've said it almost every post.

it is a beautiful car.

but the fact that the gtx 2500r was only a prototype "design" but never even actually created (where as the HRT 427 was.. and raced too if I recall), how is it classified as something other than a GTS25T?

[HuH]

I think you'll find "he" spent the time and money to make it look that good.

I was talking specifically about the time and effort put into the photographs. I'm pretty sure it wasn't him that set the car up with the backdrop and studio lighting, etc. There's a lot of time spent getting photos like that to look right.

[evil_weevil]

Actually, there are two HRT 427's

1 is in a factory/museum type building and the other was just sold for a hefty sum

the previous owner had it for a few years, did a few race days in it, and now sold it. I actually had the pleasure of talking to him once about it, and by our car scene, the 427 will have more value to this car, or majority of any other special car, considering it sold for just under a mill....