Twin Turbo Or Supercharge?

[NISMO]

yeah~i have been to the website, the AUS$5900 only includes the turbo kit setup components, it's not like the APS full kit...

so AUS$5900 delivered plus ECU, injectors, fuel pump and FMIC and labouring time to install..ect, it will end up by spending the same amount for the APS TT kit. on the other hand, APS TT kit is AUS delivery components mechanics are more fimiliar with the setup especially CNJ is the lisenced dealer for the APS TT kit, they will know better during the installation procedure...the HKS TT kit seems not a bad choice either, but the costs and the experience are still shortage in AUS i believe...

anyone has any idea?

PEI,

Not necessarily mate. The are alot of tuners who have experience with HKS products in australia. Yes you do need the extra's you've mentioned but they would not total near the APS kit. You also have the freedom to pick certain parts. as an expample, instead of paying $1500 for a a brand new "name' cooler, you could go with a second hand one. Parts like injectors and fuel pump can be picked up much cheaper for our cars from the US.

The other option you have is to get a custom instal, through a workshop.

The thing that gets me about APS is that in the US the full kit is about $7500 USD. Yet here we have to pay double.

Why, do the gold plate the turbo's for Aussie customers?

If they charged the same price instead of trying to rip people off, they would have an army of Z customers at their door.

[350GT350]

hi NISMO,

you are probably right to this point, as i caculated last night, AUS$5900 is for the twin turbo kit, the rest like exhaust, fuel system, ECU and FMIC won't cost another AUS$8000, beside if i am lucky to get the 2nd one, the costs are reduced again...

but, anyone has ideas what is the A/R for APS TT turbos? becuz for HKS GTRS turbos, they are rated as 0.64 of A/R and they can produce 273rwkw with standard internals? (i am not too sure if i am correct)

cheers

[Sydneykid]

can you be more specific about the HKS TT kit u were talking about?

The 1st picture I posted has the items layed out on the HKS story board

The engine pictures show all of the components bolted onto the engine.

u know someone who has the kit is selling for AUS$5000~AUS$6000?

www. nengun.com

Brand = HKS in their Forced Induction section and the kit is for a Z33

and what does the kit include?

The items that are specific to this engine combo, turbos, sump, exhaust manifolds, dump pipes, all of the pipework and fittings for oil and water.

Maybe what it doesn't include, basically all the stuff that is generic. The main items being intercooler and exhaust, plus the intercooler and turbo inlet pipework.

I like that choice because I can buy an exhaust that suites my tastes. I am stuck, paid my money, if I don't like the note from the AP kit or if it has a annoying drone at cruising speed. Ditto the intercooler, I can make my own choices.

Power wise, any of the 3 turbo choices will easily exceed the capacity of the standard internals, which seems to be around 300 rwkw maximum. The GTRS's have over 700 bhp capability, so there is plenty of overhead if/when we go forged internals.

Cheers

Gary

[NISMO]

Gary,

Have you sourced a car yet?

if yes what stage are you guys up to and what's the plan for the car?

[scathing]

The thing that gets me about APS is that in the US the full kit is about $7500 USD. Yet here we have to pay double.

Why, do the gold plate the turbo's for Aussie customers?

Probably for the same reason why a 350Z Track over there is AUD$40K whereas down here its $70K. Economies of scale.

The turbo kits aren't manufactured in Australia, they're only engineered here. And considering, when they released them, the V35 wasn't available down here they only had access to the small number of 350Z customers in Australia, of which only a small percentage would fit this kit. Its cheaper for them to have manufactured and shipped LHD ones to America than down here.

The reason why APS didn't sell their single turbo kit in Aus is because they felt your average 350Z customer didn't want a car that wasn't street legal (their ST doesn't have a cat). In the US the 350Z is priced at "boy racer" levels. Here, the kind of person who could afford a 350Z back in 2004 wouldn't want to get their car defected off the road because of their turbo kit. Which is why you can only get an APS TT from an APS dealer.

In the US, where it was more relaxed, you could buy either kit and fit it yourself.

APS has pretty much moved on from the FM platform, from my last conversation with Peter Luxon. Hopefully he develops a kit for the HR engine, but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't. As such, he's not particularly interested in Z33 or V35 owners.

[Sydneykid]

Gary,

Have you sourced a car yet?

if yes what stage are you guys up to and what's the plan for the car?

Not yet, it will replace the R33GTST which is committed to the SuperLap in July. I am still researching the options and models, plus I am holding out some hope that the post 2003 model emmissions problems will be resolved. The ECU is still a bit of an open question, I haven't picked one yet.

As a replacement for the R33GTST it will be a daily driver, have around 300 rwkw with track day suitable suspension and brakes. The suspension kit is pretty much engineered, Selbys Swaybars, Bilstein PS9 shocks with revised spring rates and some alignment products that I have been working on.

Cheers

Gary

[NISMO]

Probably for the same reason why a 350Z Track over there is AUD$40K whereas down here its $70K. Economies of scale.

The turbo kits aren't manufactured in Australia, they're only engineered here. And considering, when they released them, the V35 wasn't available down here they only had access to the small number of 350Z customers in Australia, of which only a small percentage would fit this kit. Its cheaper for them to have manufactured and shipped LHD ones to America than down here.

The reason why APS didn't sell their single turbo kit in Aus is because they felt your average 350Z customer didn't want a car that wasn't street legal (their ST doesn't have a cat). In the US the 350Z is priced at "boy racer" levels. Here, the kind of person who could afford a 350Z back in 2004 wouldn't want to get their car defected off the road because of their turbo kit. Which is why you can only get an APS TT from an APS dealer.

In the US, where it was more relaxed, you could buy either kit and fit it yourself.

APS has pretty much moved on from the FM platform, from my last conversation with Peter Luxon. Hopefully he develops a kit for the HR engine, but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't. As such, he's not particularly interested in Z33 or V35 owners.

Completely agree and really have no problem with the above. However once the product is developed (which it has been for a while) do you agree with the fact that they still continue to charge double for what is essentially the same kit except for I suppose the manifold?

I know in general we pay more here in Australia due to our scale.

As I've said I have spoken to them and they have advised that they weren't really interested in the V35's coming from Japan.

However I still think that if they looked at the price of current FM cars and priced their products a little more realistically, they would make a fair few TT sales.

Just my opinion and if I ever went with forced induction, i would not even entertain the idea of using APS, for no other reason than the fact their kits are around double the price of most foreign kits.

[NISMO]

Not yet, it will replace the R33GTST which is committed to the SuperLap in July. I am still researching the options and models, plus I am holding out some hope that the post 2003 model emmissions problems will be resolved. The ECU is still a bit of an open question, I haven't picked one yet.

As a replacement for the R33GTST it will be a daily driver, have around 300 rwkw with track day suitable suspension and brakes. The suspension kit is pretty much engineered, Selbys Swaybars, Bilstein PS9 shocks with revised spring rates and some alignment products that I have been working on.

Cheers

Gary

Good stuff Gary,

make sure you keep us updated once the build gets underway.

[350GT350]

hi guys,

Here I have some prices from HKS TT kit from the website nengun.com...And i have spoken to the manager in this company, he seems to understand more about the TT setup for both 350z and v35.

HKS GTRS TT kit $5900 shipped

HKS forged pistons and connecting rods kit $5000 shipped

The above 2 items is about $11000, to make them useful, probably need the ECU, fuel pump, injectors and FMIC. However, the rest of stuff don't need $10000 to fit. So, the total of $21000 will give you a half-built engine that will handle 450hp with daily driving ability.

On the other hand, the APS TT kit only might cost you $17500, this doesn't include any internally mod yet, to caculate from $17500 will end up spending more than double to have a half-built engine.

I give my appreciation to those who help me with the ideas about the foreign kits instead of focusing on the APS TT kit which is the only kit available in AUS.

[Unique]

Are you saying $10000 for ECU, fuel pump, injectors, FMIC and install of the whole kit along with upgrading internals? That sounds a bit high!

[Sydneykid]

As anyone properly versed in the Australian aftermarket auto industry will tell you, the first owner very seldom is the one doing the mods. It's the second and third owners that get into the upgrade path. So APS are pretty naive thinking that they would sell meaningful numbers of Z33 turbo kits until the car had been around for 3 to 5 years. Right now is prime time for that sort of upgrade, and they aren’t interested. It’s all very well to be fast to market when a new car is released, it gives you some bragging rights and publicity. But you shouldn’t be stupid enough to believe that you are going to sell the stuff straight away.

As for not caring about V35’s, well I reckon that’s equally stupid. Let’s face it they would only need a few hours to upgrade the Z33 kit to fit the V35. At the prices they charge, that’s money for jam even if they only sell a handful of kits.

My numbers tell me that, after Commondoors, import Nissans are the most modified cars. So ignore them at your peril.

Cheers

Gary

[350GT350]

The above 2 items is about $11000, to make them useful, probably need the ECU, fuel pump, injectors and FMIC. However, the rest of stuff don't need $10000 to fit. So, the total of $21000 will give you a half-built engine that will handle 450hp with daily driving ability.

Please read carefully, the rest of stuff "don't" need $10000 to buy and fit..

here is a website, that helps you guys what are wanting turbocharged your V35s

http://www.importedinnovations.com/index.php?cPath=4_12

after i added all the parts i want to the shopping cart, it's about $14000USD at the moment, and this includes a built engine and the twin turbo kit....

a built engine including the following:

Brian Crower Nissan 350z and Infiniti G35 VQ35DE Stroker Kit

ARP Connecting Rod Bolts for 2003+ Nissan 350z

ARP Head Studs for 2003+ Nissan 350z & G35 VQ35

Brian Crower 264/264 Nissan 350z and Infiniti G35 Cams

Brian Crower Valve Spring and Titanium Retainer Kit for 350z/G35

Unorthodox Racing UR Ultra SS Pulley kit for 03+ 350z & G35

cheers

[scathing]

Completely agree and really have no problem with the above. However once the product is developed (which it has been for a while) do you agree with the fact that they still continue to charge double for what is essentially the same kit except for I suppose the manifold?

Not really, no. I really like the APS kit from a technical and turnkey standpoint, but I can't afford it either. If I were to go FI, I'd get the HKS Single Turbo.

That said, another part likes beating turbo cars with NA. If I was sittting on 10K to spend on my car I'd probably throw it at a rebuild and 8000RPM redline rather than fitting a FI kit. I wouldn't get the outright power, but I'd get the snobbery that comes with outlapping someone in a less powerful car.

[NA_R33]

Gary,

Have you considered the autronic? i cannot fault it, other then the throttle body issue which i will sort by putting a throttle cable into it when i get the chance. The car drives better then standard, its definately the best aftermarket option ive come across and ive played with a few. If i had the money id be putting one on the race car too.

That HKS kit looks awesome, i have something to start saving for i think

Cheers

John

[Sydneykid]

The problem with a single turbo on a V engine is the cross over exhaust pipe, particularly in a tight engine bay, hence why I will be going twin turbo.

We used lots of Autronics on the BMW SuperTourers and the Perkins customer V8SuperCars came with them, before they went control ECU. So I have no problem with using an Autronic ECU. Many of the race team cars have Motec, so I am OK with them as well. I like the fly by wire throttle and the ease of cruise control, so that means keeping the standard ECU for at least that much of the operation. The dash/LCD readouts are a keeper as well, so a piggy back ECU will be the go or flash tuning the standard ECU. Not sure which one yet.

Cheers

Gary

[gadget1382]

Why not use a VQ30det setup on them? Has the cross over at the back and all, will bolt up straight to the VQ35de (exhaust manifolds are the same) And i'd assume that they are in the same location.

I have one that i'm going to drop into my track car. But have also done ALOT of research into a TT setup.

The VQ30det already has oil squirters, stronger internals, it just lacks the bore. (easily changed down the track)

The APS kit is designed for STREET and is INSTALLED!!! so there is no labour costs on your part. It took under a week. I know someone that has the 350Z TT setup and it's crazy good.

Smooth power, sounds amazing and looks like it came from factory. There is nothing that they have forgotten in this setup. EG, braided oil lines, fitting, bolts brackets, intake pods, Aluminium single piece bent pipe and perfectly designed exhaust with more than adiquite clearance. All of those components add up to $$ that many of you forget to add to the installation cost. The other kits you mention do not include alot of the extras that this COMPLETE kit supplies.

I'm not saying the other kits are not good and i'm sure as hell no salesman for APS, but it's the most proffessional looking kit i've come accross.

Check some of these out too.

http://www.350z-tech.com/zwiki/Portal:Forced_Induction

[Unique]

Certainly I do not feel that anyone is disputing the fact that the APS is a quality product. The problem I have, along with many others, is that whilst yes it is installed and includes all the little bits, you are never going to spend the asking price if you had it built elsewhere. I have considered purchasing this kit from the US as for one it is a hell of a lot cheaper for the identical product (except would need different dump pipes if I recall correctly). I am happy either to install myself or have a qualified workshop install it. With the current exchange rate I would be MILES ahead.

[350GT350]

hi guy,

Please take look at this kit available:

http://www.importedinnovations.com/product...c0a100e5611b5cc

This is a COMPLETE kit for TT setup as well, 7 psi, 400 horses at the wheels. But you need a good ECU for it.

Since APS kit includes the ECU but it's mapped in the program already, another $1500 will have a better one, isn't it?

the above kit is not a bad choice, as mentioned eariler, the USD currencies isn't bad now, so i'd probably go for this kit.

cheers

[Sydneykid]

IMHO, the IHI 1420's are a little small, similar to GTSS's, around 260 bhp each. Which for a properly tuned 3.5 litre engine means they would be developing boost well below 2,000 rpm. For standard internals I am not sure I want that boost and, hence torque, so low in the rpm range. Other than that the PE kits looks OK.

Cheers

Gary

[Sydneykid]

Why not use a VQ30det setup on them? Has the cross over at the back and all, will bolt up straight to the VQ35de (exhaust manifolds are the same) And i'd assume that they are in the same location.

I have one that i'm going to drop into my track car. But have also done ALOT of research into a TT setup.

The VQ30det already has oil squirters, stronger internals, it just lacks the bore. (easily changed down the track)

The APS kit is designed for STREET and is INSTALLED!!! so there is no labour costs on your part. It took under a week. I know someone that has the 350Z TT setup and it's crazy good.

Smooth power, sounds amazing and looks like it came from factory. There is nothing that they have forgotten in this setup. EG, braided oil lines, fitting, bolts brackets, intake pods, Aluminium single piece bent pipe and perfectly designed exhaust with more than adiquite clearance. All of those components add up to $$ that many of you forget to add to the installation cost. The other kits you mention do not include alot of the extras that this COMPLETE kit supplies.

I'm not saying the other kits are not good and i'm sure as hell no salesman for APS, but it's the most proffessional looking kit i've come accross.

Check some of these out too.

http://www.350z-tech.com/zwiki/Portal:Forced_Induction

It depends on what you want, if you need a drive in drive out solution, then it's not too bad, albeit excessively priced in comparison to what the same kits sells for in the US. Since I am going to be doing the installation and tuning myself I don't need that.

Cheers

Gary