Rear Spoilers.... Necessary?

[SS8_Gohan]

Hi guys,

thought i'd post this in here instead of the general section, as this is where the serious stuff happens

My car is currently spoilerless, and i've only done 1 track day at Sandown but would like to do a few more and was wondering if i was to track the car a few times a year, is a spoiler necessary??

I was sorta babying the car at Sandown (33 degrees) and i only got to say 170 clicks on the straight, but i'd liked to give other tracks a go as well, especially Phillip Island.

Withe these the sorts of speeds.is it beneficial and safer to have a spoiler?? I'm not talking some big T wing thing, i'm thinking more along the standard height of a GTT spoiler.

I know they're only functional at certain speeds, and just wondering if recreational track driving see's these sorts of speeds a few times a lap

cheers,

daniel

[R31Nismoid]

They make a massive difference at decent speed (over 160), i can noticeably feel my rear end digging in with my old 80's style one

So more engineering etc id imagine more benefit

[sav man]

We changed the angle of our R33 wing to the middle setting (from the top) in Targa. It made a huge diference, made the rear much more setteled.

[SS8_Gohan]

wow... ok, guess i wasn't expecting it to be so clear cut, thought it might something like "if you're doing 250+, then... yes"

so in short, even for "weekend" track days, a spoiler can make a big difference and it's probably preferable to have one then?

thanks for the replies guys

[phunky_monkey]

I used to have one on my car, took it off and sold it. I never tracked it, but have since been in the guy's car that I sold the wing to which is very similar to my own car. His feels a lot more settled in the rear, which is a bit of a bugbear about my car. I've now purchased a wing and I'll be putting it on before my car hits the track again.

[260DET]

Look at the landing and takeoff speeds of light aircraft, simple.

[Merli]

I'll NEVER forget footage that I saw of the BTCC (British Touring Car Championship), where I saw two identical Volvos (same race team), barreling down the straight one after the other.

Halfway down the straight, the rear wing (it was one of those cool touring car T-shaped wings) of the second Volvo rip off and tumble along the tarmac. I'm not sure that the driver noticed, because he kept right into his throttle

Eventually, both cars enter Turn 1 and the first car just brakes and the whole car squats down and gets on with his braking. The second car following a little behind also hits his braking marker, but the car doesn't seem to slow down at all!!! The rear of the car just waddles around helplessly as the lack of downforce and resultant lack of grip meant that he couldn't brake ANYWHERE NEAR as hard as his teammate, let alone attempt making the first turn. He ended up squirming all over the place, and spearing straight off the end of the track at some RIDICULOUS speed, as his teammate casually took turn 1 without a care in the world.

A perfect example of two cars entering a corner with (nearly) exactly the same setup, at the same speed. One with a rear wing, and one without.

I wish I could find the footage to show you guys

[GTR-32U]

I would love to know roughly what sort of lap time a V8 supercar would lap Mt Panorama in without any sort of wing or front spoiler...that would be interesting

[Roy]

Personally i think aftermarket wings are very hit and miss. If you want to upgrade a spoiler for your R34 then go shopping for an R34 GTR rear spiler, perhaps throw some higher pposts on it to get it up another inch or two.

I suspect the wings that many run actually hurt their straight line speed because of the angle of attack and only unsettle the car in corners as they have rear end downforce but nothing for the front end. Stick with std spoilers for a sure thing. Nissan spend a bit of money on getting them to be a compromised solution for visibility and performance with hopefully livable amounts of drag. Same cant be said for a lot of the aftermarket abominations

[Merli]

I suspect the wings that many run actually hurt their straight line speed because of the angle of attack and only unsettle the car in corners as they have rear end downforce but nothing for the front end.

I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I remember reading somewhere that downforce acts on the car as a whole. Not sure how reliable it is

[Ant97GTR]

I'd agree with Roy in that if the rest of your aero on the car is std go with the factory wings. No question that downforce can greatly effect the handling of a car particularly in high speed sweepers and braking zones.

Merli what you say is correct but it is a balancing act. Nissan do their R&D on a car and design the aero so there is a balance between the front and rear of a car. Yes the downforce from a rear wing will act on the whole car but will be biased to the rear of the car. As a result Nissan have designed the rear wing to provide a certain amount of downforce to balance the downforce provided at the front of the car. Obviously this is a highly simplified view as there are other forces at work.

SS8 I would go the R34GTR or GTT wing for your car and retain the std plastic covers under your engine at the front as a starting point.

[Boss-zilla]

If you want to upgrade a spoiler for your R34 then go shopping for an R34 GTR rear spiler, perhaps throw some higher pposts on it to get it up another inch or two.

I agree with this plus it give a bit of a sleeper look to the untrained eye. Ill be getting one for my car and Superior in Japan make carbon fiber extended feet and blade for the 34gtr wing so you can always 'upgrade' it for more down force.

http://page12.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p113441114

ta da.

Cheers

Ross

[SS8_Gohan]

thanks for the help guys

i was actually thinking of this particular one...

http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g58159544 - i figure it's ok to link in here, as i haven't seen anyone else in Oz with one and i like the slightly lower, more angled look.

re: plastic under-trays, unfortunately my front bumper doesn't allow for the factory ones, well not the middle one at least. And the left and right side plastic trays aren't sitting flush with the bottom of the bumper either...

sooo.. if you have more down-force at the front, are you trying to equal that at the back.

Does side aero play any part? My car at the moment...

so if i have a bitumen scrapping front bumper, does this necessarily need to be balanced properly at the other end?

as for under body aero, something i'd love to do... i might have to go custom fab for it... east bear under body CF is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Roy]

Your car is so nice. Dont track it. Its too pretty.

As for under car aero, again if factory doesnt fit then dont bother. I think there is far more fun is spendign that money on getting out there and having a ball, and improving your driving. With undertrays that inevitable excursion off the track could be a very expensive mistake

[Ant97GTR]

Nice car BTW

At this stage I'd say just go for the rear spoiler (haven't clicked ont eh link) but nothing too serious. The slight (and I mean slight) imbalance that this is going to cause will be neg until you are right on the edge. You are better off having the downforce on the rear than none at all....

[Roy]

Given teh low front spoiler he is running i wouldnt think you could tell the difference with just a new rear spiler. Remember that the no V-Spec R34s all had the std rear spoilers and the same front bar, but with no undertrays.

Thing is your car looks tough now. Do you really want to throw a big spoiler on it ?

[SS8_Gohan]

^ i'm not sure.... always thought 34's look a bit funny without them, but after lowering my car, and having the full kit on it, it's pretty much passable without a wing, but from some angles, looks a little strange....

thought this was a good compromise, keeps the sleek look a bit better by being lower than the factory height

[hrd-hr30]

adding a spoiler on my old track 1200 coupe made a big diference. kept the rear end much more planted under the bridge at Lakeside, which is a fast sweeper with a few bumps in it. without the spoiler it would hop around and always get a little out of shape there. With the spoiler on, it was much nicer through that corner.

you guys are talking about wings rather than spoilers though. a spoiler is attached to the body of the car across the full width of the device and air only flows over it, like on old school toranas. a wing has an element supported above the body of the vehicle and has airflow above and below it.

[R338OY]

Awesome combination of looks with the 34.

For track a spoiler is a good, but think of how you might mess up the looks

[Ant97GTR]

Given teh low front spoiler he is running i wouldnt think you could tell the difference with just a new rear spiler. Remember that the no V-Spec R34s all had the std rear spoilers and the same front bar, but with no undertrays.

Thats what I meant in my post.....unless you are driving at 11/10ths you aren't going to notice a difference in the balance of the car with just a rear wing. I am aware that only the 34 vspecs had the front diffusers, however the std plastic covers (which ss8 does not have) under the engine do a similar job albeit not as efficiently.