Time Attack

[Roy]

All true, but then there are other truths as well that indicate it should be even faster. The tyres were hardly pristine, so it would have gone faster with better rubber. The rear bump steer and camber angles are much better, but the front is still far from ideal, it would definitely be easier to drive and faster with that fixed. The spring rates and shock valving I chose for it were a guess, I have never been involved with that 300ZX configuration before, so it truly was a guess. The number of laps was limited due to other issues etc etc. So there are plenty or valid reasons to believe that there is more potential there.

The glass is most definitely half full, not half empty.

Cheers

Gary

Yeh nbo doubt the car has more in it. I was just trying to point out that i dont think you can say that the 1.5 sec improvement at PI upon his second visit is a result of mods to the car. First time Dunlop rear and Toyo fronts from memory. Second time there he has the same tyre all round (RE55s i think) which even if the tyres are old would be most likely better then tyres that come up to temp adn grip at different times.

Then there was the fact that at the PIARC day whilst there was still lots of cars in attendance, the traffic was not as bad, and he had more track time without the EPA dickign him for noise etc etc. I bet he would have seen a 1.5sec improvement if he had not touched the car....but since he has, he probably has lifted the performance ceiling further then what he is currently seeing.

[spannerx]

i know this may be a silly question but Gary if u had to choose between a gtst and gtr for circuit and had an unlimited budget would u still go for a gtst? i dont have an unlimited budget but am still undecided on which way i wanna go.

say your pushing 450kw at wheels with a rb26 and t04z (good power between 4200rpm-9000rpm) and have a gtr ppg dogbox already would u ever considering using a gtst? do u think i would get any advantage with a gtr over gtst with that combo? I dont know if you know Barbegallo Raceway in perth but this is the track i would be running on 99% of the time and possibly the track down at Collie but only on rare occasions.

I can either...

use the ppg box with cut off tf case for rwd and my engine as is making 450kw in gtst?

use the ppg box with cut off tf case for rwd and my engine with a gt3540 making around 360kw in gtst?

or ppg box and 450kw engine combo in a gtr?

im soo unsure and keep trying to convince myself on either options its driving me crazy lol

Mate go the GTST you dont need talent to pull good times in a GTR but i guess it depends on what class your intrested in running in.

[Sydneykid]

i know this may be a silly question but Gary if u had to choose between a gtst and gtr for circuit and had an unlimited budget would u still go for a gtst? i dont have an unlimited budget but am still undecided on which way i wanna go.

say your pushing 450kw at wheels with a rb26 and t04z (good power between 4200rpm-9000rpm) and have a gtr ppg dogbox already would u ever considering using a gtst? do u think i would get any advantage with a gtr over gtst with that combo? I dont know if you know Barbegallo Raceway in perth but this is the track i would be running on 99% of the time and possibly the track down at Collie but only on rare occasions.

I can either...

use the ppg box with cut off tf case for rwd and my engine as is making 450kw in gtst?

use the ppg box with cut off tf case for rwd and my engine with a gt3540 making around 360kw in gtst?

or ppg box and 450kw engine combo in a gtr?

im soo unsure and keep trying to convince myself on either options its driving me crazy lol

At 450 rwkw, a 2wd is simply not going to get the job done, even with full slicks on board the GTST is going to suffer traction problems. There is only one answer and that's a GTR, you already know that, so get on with it

Cheers

Gary

[Sydneykid]

Mate go the GTST you dont need talent to pull good times in a GTR but i guess it depends on what class your intrested in running in.

From 9 years experience with both of them in a race environment, I can tell you with certainty that a GTR is damn site harder to set up than a GTST. I don't see a real lot of difference in the driving talent required either, I'm crap in either of them.

Cheers

Gary

[spannerx]

From 9 years experience with both of them in a race environment, I can tell you with certainty that a GTR is damn site harder to set up than a GTST. I don't see a real lot of difference in the driving talent required either, I'm crap in either of them.

Cheers

Gary

Gary: i guess i'm just pushing my 2 wheel GTST barrow, i have never driven a GTR nor had any mechanical experience with one . Mate I;m to old to be retrained in 4 wheel technology at present my GTST is enough of a challenge. Maybe one day someone will offer me a drive and i;ll have a change of heart, buy for now when on the track i;ll have to treat all GTRS as the enemy.

Ta George.

[Duncan]

don't worry mate a gtr is just a gtst that pulls out of a corner better nothing like those nasty evos/wrx/etc

[Stupid Toyota]

At 450 rwkw, a 2wd is simply not going to get the job done, even with full slicks on board the GTST is going to suffer traction problems. There is only one answer and that's a GTR, you already know that, so get on with it

Cheers

Gary

Oh but Gary, didnt you say if its wheel spinning then its the suspension setup? Or does it change according to if you say it or if someone else does?

Remember?

That's a set up problem, if you have power down problems on 11" wide slicks then the set up needs work.

[Sydneykid]

Oh but Gary, didnt you say if its wheel spinning then its the suspension setup? Or does it change according to if you say it or if someone else does?

Remember?

Perhaps I need to emphasise the difference in the respective posts;

I had hell trouble getting the power down cleanly.

That's a set up problem, if you have power down problems on 11" wide slicks then the set up needs work.

Compared to;

At 450 rwkw, a 2wd is simply not going to get the job done, even with full slicks on board the GTST is going to suffer traction problems

Which was a comparison with a GTR, both at 450 rwkw.

Cheers

Gary

[Stupid Toyota]

Sorry, I assumed being involved in motorsport that you would be able to understand without the need for specifics.

When I said I had trouble getting the power down cleanly, that means traction. Just the same as you are quoting above.

You didnt think perhaps my traction issues were also the result of having over 500rwhp? (514 according to a dyno run in 5th) Instead, after Id already stated I was working on suspension and you'd edited to remove it in your reply, you declared it was the suspension setup and went on to say if it cant put the power down with 11in slicks (280, though I had 265s but who wants to quibble over 15mm a side) then the car was poorly setup. Now your saying a 2WD Skyline with similar power will have traction issues and Im assuming now you're disregarding setup? I really can't keep up with your changes of direction...

[Roy]

... I really can't keep up with your changes of direction...

Thats why you need a Mk I Escort, 2L Pinto power in 750kg shell. They change direction real well!

[ZENNON]

Thats why you need a Mk I Escort, 2L Pinto power in 750kg shell. They change direction real well!

ive heard the r32 gtst's are quite nimble too

[some_cs_student]

Sorry, I assumed being involved in motorsport that you would be able to understand without the need for specifics.

I don't have the expertise here, but I do spend most of the time communicating online at work and I'd have to say this is one of the areas where you *do* need specifics.

Your talking about traction and power is going to make a big difference, there will never be a "sliver bullet" (magical fix for the problem).

Instead, after Id already stated I was working on suspension and you'd edited to remove it in your reply, you declared it was the suspension setup and went on to say if it cant put the power down with 11in slicks (280, though I had 265s but who wants to quibble over 15mm a side) then the car was poorly setup. Now your saying a 2WD Skyline with similar power will have traction issues and Im assuming now you're disregarding setup? I really can't keep up with your changes of direction...

I think a generalisation was made and withdrawn, mistakes happen.

For example I run 235mm wide tyres with no traction issues...then again I have 250RWKW on a GTR (street car, not race car ).

An interesting discussion so far...

[Stupid Toyota]

I don't have the expertise here, but I do spend most of the time communicating online at work and I'd have to say this is one of the areas where you *do* need specifics.

Your talking about traction and power is going to make a big difference, there will never be a "sliver bullet" (magical fix for the problem).

Im very well aware, however without even asking a few simple questions a conclusion was drawn and presented in a manner unrequired. Imagine going to a Doctor and having him leap to conclusions without asking a few questions that should be obvious. If you're going to ignore the fact that someone has already made statements about certain aspects, then edit them out and repost it as if they were your conclusions disregarding an obvious cause of traction loss, being power then later contradict yourself then you should expect to get pulled up on it.

I think a generalisation was made and withdrawn, mistakes happen.

For example I run 235mm wide tyres with no traction issues...then again I have 250RWKW on a GTR (street car, not race car ).

An interesting discussion so far...

Nothing was withdrawn, merely ignored and edited to suit own aims.

I dont know everything, but Im certainly not ignorant. I take offence to people trying to inflate their ego's at my expense when they are going off half cocked. Especially when they do a back flip a week or two later. Anyway, I doubt I'll get a reasonable reasponse, merely more political mumbo jumbo talk.

[Sydneykid]

Sorry, I assumed being involved in motorsport that you would be able to understand without the need for specifics.

When I said I had trouble getting the power down cleanly, that means traction. Just the same as you are quoting above.

You didnt think perhaps my traction issues were also the result of having over 500rwhp? (514 according to a dyno run in 5th) Instead, after Id already stated I was working on suspension and you'd edited to remove it in your reply, you declared it was the suspension setup and went on to say if it cant put the power down with 11in slicks (280, though I had 265s but who wants to quibble over 15mm a side) then the car was poorly setup. Now your saying a 2WD Skyline with similar power will have traction issues and Im assuming now you're disregarding setup? I really can't keep up with your changes of direction...

A few facts perhaps;

500 rwhp is not 450 rwkw, that's 600 rwhp last time I checked. That's 20% more power, which is hardly SIMILAR POWER (your words)

Having HELL TROUBLE(your words) with 500 rwhp is not the same as TRACTION PROBLEMS (my words) with 600 rwhp.

So I stand by what I originally posted, if you are having HELL TOUBLE with 500 rwhp on 11" slicks then you need to work on the suspension setup.

Is that specific enough for you?

Cheers

Gary

[Simonster]

Come on boys, play nice. Its a learning enviroment here and we should appreciate the fact that SK spends as much time as he does on here after dealing with it all day at work- he doesn't have to!

I'd love to fly Gary to Brissy to set up my car with his suspension package and give me pointers with it, but i know that's not going to happen, so there no point getting upset about it. Learn what you can and go try it.

I'd be thankful he assists as much as he does

[unique1]

thanks Gary and others for the thread, great informative info and helps in my decision making abit

[spannerx]

thanks Gary and others for the thread, great informative info and helps in my decision making abit

while were on the subject of traction has anyone fitted solid plastic or alloy diff support bushes on the rear diff on r33 gtst and found any improvement in rear feel on track conditions as i haven;t been able to find urethane bushes i;m resorting to nylon.

[Sydneykid]

while were on the subject of traction has anyone fitted solid plastic or alloy diff support bushes on the rear diff on r33 gtst and found any improvement in rear feel on track conditions as i haven;t been able to find urethane bushes i;m resorting to nylon.

The diff bushes have no effect on the suspension geometry, so I can't see how they would affect the handling. Much like engine and gearbox mounts, diff mounts can have dynamic effects (moving mass, inertia etc) if the bushes were badly worn/torn. But I can't say that I have ever seen an R32/33/34 with flogged out diff bushes, they seem very durable and arguably over engineered even for drag cars with 1000 bhp. My personal opinion is that there are better, more effective ways to spend my time and money.

Cheers

Gary

[260DET]

With two wheel drive and Nissan multilink rear suspension, what are the suspension's critical areas in regard to rear grip and stability?

My wild guess is reducing anti squat, lighter rear springs than front and ensuring toe in at all times.

And is removing the rear ARB completely ever an option?

[spannerx]

The diff bushes have no effect on the suspension geometry, so I can't see how they would affect the handling. Much like engine and gearbox mounts, diff mounts can have dynamic effects (moving mass, inertia etc) if the bushes were badly worn/torn. But I can't say that I have ever seen an R32/33/34 with flogged out diff bushes, they seem very durable and arguably over engineered even for drag cars with 1000 bhp. My personal opinion is that there are better, more effective ways to spend my time and money.

Cheers Gary i;m rebuilding my back end using solid alloy cradle bushes and rose joints in all my arms ect i;m just trying to get a faster reaction out of my suspension.

Gary