Very Disappointing Dyno Results, Help!

[Granthem]

This is pretty much on the money as far as R33 and R34 go.. My ECU was struggling by about ~160.. stock turbo holding for the moment..

Just wait til you have 200+ rwkw and the R34 cant hold boost..

FYI.. i am running 202.9rwkw with intake, exhaust, boost controller, PFC, splitfires.

Tuned at RE Customs (for dyno results comparison)

That is all..

33Turbo off here has run solid 13s with an average 60ft with cat back, cat and boost. standard comp. running around 170rwkw on the dyno. and the time seems to back that up. MPH was 100

i doubt 150rwkw in a 1450kg car will pull that speed and time

Edited May 20, 2008 by Granthem

[Adriano]

Neo's have more advanced R&R, so its even harder to gain that 20rwkw with FMIC, exhaust and boost, ive seen more than one go backwards with those mods. Has the cam timing been checked yet? The power doesnt sound particularly low, especially if its auto.

[Wacky Dee]

"Has the cam timing been checked yet? The power doesnt sound particularly low, especially if its auto."

yes it has (didn't read the opening post? naughty!) and no it's not an auto, it's a manual.

ANYWAY, I've just done a dyrno run at another garage and got a very different result (166rwkw) on both runs. Now before I post the graph printouts, I wanna make sure this doesn't start a shitstorm of any sort accusing the garage of running a 'happy dyno' etc esp. since they are a sponsor/trader here. If you reckon it's a 'happy dyno', which personally, wouldn't surprise me having read so much on this topic on SAU... just to keep it to yourself, please don't get this thread locked/deleted by making disparaging remarks or accusations. Cheers

[The Mafia]

Yup you definitely seem to be in the know. SK stated 140-150 rwkw from a stadard 34 with a 10kw increase with just a zorst. Now, in all your inifinite wisdom as the leading authority on what is possible for the rb25det, you should be able to work out that between 170+is not out of the quest given extra boost. If not, i suggest you might want to pull your head out of your ass.

Thanks

you're forgetting about the R&R, and the fact that an exhaust makes them run at about 10psi up top anyway? But yes, 170 is within reach. Why the arrogance?

have u checked all ur plugs and vacuum hoses to make sure none are leaking??

maybe even just check fuel system??

but 145rwkw on 25 neo is low

i kno mine isnt a 34, its a 32 but i got turbo back exhuast and pod and made 167rwkw on 3 different dynos give or take like 1 or 2 kw's.

put a pod on. heat sheild it and see wat happens.

also get rid of the x-force cat, (THEY SHYT)

and listen to the big mr mafia lol he knows all hahahahaha (thinks)

yeap, and I'm sure you needed about 18psi to do that too. But I bet you didn't know that the RB20 ECU is very different to the RB25 and Neo ECUs hey? They are capable of much more with just boost and don't go into R&R anywhere near as bad as the R33 and R34...

Actually, I bet you didn't, hence your statement.

33Turbo off here has run solid 13s with an average 60ft with cat back, cat and boost. standard comp. running around 170rwkw on the dyno. and the time seems to back that up. MPH was 100

i doubt 150rwkw in a 1450kg car will pull that speed and time

209rwkw netted me 13.6 at 104mph and a 2.3 sec 60 foot.. 60foot was shocking.

[R34GTFOUR]

"Has the cam timing been checked yet? The power doesnt sound particularly low, especially if its auto."

yes it has (didn't read the opening post? naughty!) and no it's not an auto, it's a manual.

ANYWAY, I've just done a dyrno run at another garage and got a very different result (166rwkw) on both runs. Now before I post the graph printouts, I wanna make sure this doesn't start a shitstorm of any sort accusing the garage of running a 'happy dyno' etc esp. since they are a sponsor/trader here. If you reckon it's a 'happy dyno', which personally, wouldn't surprise me having read so much on this topic on SAU... just to keep it to yourself, please don't get this thread locked/deleted by making disparaging remarks or accusations. Cheers

yeah thats not supprising, i've had a car on one dyno and pull 200rwhp then litterally drive downt he street to another and got 267rwhp, its been said before dynos are only tuning tools, and if you want to use them as power readers the best they will do is show an increase/decrease in power when you do comparison runs before and after changing a part (ie exhaust etc). The true determinant of power is a 1/4 terminal speed

if your sure it feels dougher coming onto boost, why dont you just pop the timing belt cover off and double check the cam timing, SK noted that it may feel abit slower due to having a newer belt that doesnt stretch, but just double check it anyway.

Take it to the drags when you have time and see what mph you get

[brent32]

so is the moral of this thread to shop around til you find a dyno that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling in your jocks? or is it that pods, FMICs and zorts dont necessarily deliver big rwkw boosts.

personally i would be a little worried if the car could be proven to be underpowered in a back to back run against a similar setup.

[nizmonut]

I don't understand why everyones saying 145 seems like a reasonable dyno output for GTT R34, surely dyno is not an accurate tool to measure the cars power output but it must be pretty close to the kw its supposed to pull.

To be honest, the power ur pulling 145kwrw is bloody low cuz from my research and knowledge:

R33 GTS-T = 130-140 kwrw @ stock

R34 GTT = 150-160 kwrw@ stock

The results are for manual cars so if yours (Deltaforce) ain't manual that may be the partial reason why its low.

So you cannot compare the R33 RB25 with R34 RB25 Neo ok? its not supposed to make the same power. With an exhaust it could possibly push it up atleast 10kw without tune.

My recommendation for you is to go to a different mechanic shop to dyno run and compare the results if it makes any difference cuz if it doesn't and still stays around the 145kw mark, then definitely something is wrong.

you want reliable results stay on the same dyno, every dyno reads differentley depending on the age of the machine and even the gauge of wiring they are using.

the best mod you can ever do to a RB motor is a remap or better still a aftermarket ecu, gap the plugs to .8 and you can run 12 psi all day long at 15 deg atdc.

[STRYKR 33]

Delta force, now that you have a higher reading does the car feel any faster?

I didn't see you comment on any change in driving experience.

[10MinuteCar]

So belgarage must be really accurate cuz i heard not to be dissapointed going there to dyno run as it reads lower than other places.

Deltaforce - So did you try other shops for dyno yet? If so let us know of what power you put out.

cheers

[Yo-Yo]

Anyway, don't forget that I FEEL less power from the car than I did before the timing belt ... I've been outrun (not racing on purpose, just as a coincidence of traffic congestion) by everything from an audi v6 to a toyota yarris. The car just doesn't seem to have that 'oomph' anymore when the turbo starts spooling up. And the dyno results just seem to back that up.

ANYWAY, I've just done a dyrno run at another garage and got a very different result (166rwkw) on both runs. Now before I post the graph printouts, I wanna make sure this doesn't start a shitstorm of any sort accusing the garage of running a 'happy dyno' etc esp. since they are a sponsor/trader here. If you reckon it's a 'happy dyno', which personally, wouldn't surprise me having read so much on this topic on SAU... just to keep it to yourself, please don't get this thread locked/deleted by making disparaging remarks or accusations. Cheers

Just paint over the company's logo on your dyno graph in ms paint.

Are you still feeling the same lack of gusto even with this new dyno readout?

[10MinuteCar]

actually ignore my previous post, i just read you pulled 166kw with an full exhaust so you must be happy now

So which shop was this you dynoed at? so i can start this firestorm

[Wacky Dee]

The car feels the same as it did yesterday .. but it does ease my mind a bit because this tells me that there's probably nothing wrong with the car and I just got used to the power. Biggest mistake I made was not to dyno it stock, before the exhaust and timing belt ...

I'll post the 2nd dyno results tommorow ..just can't be farked scanning and editing the images now. According to this 2nd dyno I'm making 166rwkw but according to the graphs, I'm not making any more than 8psi boost at any point and above 4500rpm I'm running very rich, low 10's ... but I haven't really noticed any smoke or crap on my bumper bar.

Not sure if I should be worried about the afr at load because I rarely hit those rpms anyway (don't do much highway driving at all) The shop suggested I get a SAFC + tune to fix the AFR and get maybe 10-15kw extra.

I was thinking SAFC, Greddy EBC (11 psi) and do an ECU reset/remap and be done with it .. don't really need much more power for a street car.

However the shop told me the R34 stock ecu can't be remapped/changed.. hmm? Maybe they just meant 'remapping is shit' compared to safc/pfc as alternatives.

I'd love to give the car to a skyline mechanic to go over everything and make sure everthing's aight but it's getting bloody expensive .. these 2 dynos alone cost me $250 now.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Delta Force

[Wacky Dee]

Oh yeah .. if theres anyone else in Sydney who's got an R34 GTT with only a turbo back exhaust as a mod (stock boost, ecu and everything else0 I'd love it if you could take your car for a dyno at Bel's. I'll pay 50% of the dyno costs to sweeten the deal for anyone interested ;-) Just need something as a reference on the same dyno to be sure I don't have any problems with my car.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Delta Force

[paulr33]

the results sound correct, its probably a case the first dyno plot (with low power) has correction turned off, or its not in shootout mode etc

and you are comparing to everyone else who is in shootout mode, which has correction, so your result is uncorrected, so the figure is lower (or not on even comparable grounds).

now the 2nd run is probably dyno dynamics with shootout mode and correction set so you get a higher figure

the first dyno plot isn't a dyno dynamics with std shootout mode, but it does mention correction

its probably just different scale etc. now if you were to keep going back to bel each time and doing more mods, the power would go up

but your base line scale is different, as everyone else has dyno dynamics shootout mode std settings

we've seen it before, we had a guy in vic with 185rwkw std r33 gtst, bog stock

the problem being it was done in 3rd gear instead of 4th by accident

the figure is correct, but its useless for comparison against all the other gtst figures done in 4th gear

had he of kept going back to the same place each time, his power would go up with extra mods of course, but his figure would be always higher, due to wrong gear

so in summary, its not wrong, its just offset prboably by different dyno mode / settings

[Wacky Dee]

Ok here are the 2nd dyno results ..one thing I found interesting is the PSI. The first dyno I think I was reaching 9.1psi on this one, never went over 8. What gives? Also is there any easy fix for the AFR issue (running rich at load) ?? Like a new AFM ?

Edited May 20, 2008 by Delta Force

[paulr33]

yeah thats more like it, this one is in dyno dynamics

and in std shootout mode so you can compare it to anyone in std shootout mode now

however be sure to note the shootout mode is technicall wrong, its SHOOT_6

it should be SHOOT_6F for "forced induction" as turbo chargers use a different ramp rate

its a technicality, but its probably ok for usual power comparisons

interesting AFR results, is their wideband sensor ok ?

one run shows 10.5 AFR and the other run shows 9 AFR

the only way to fix the AFRs is to use a piggyback device such as an SAFC to bend the AFM signal

or remap the stock ecu or get a stand alone ECU and tune it. replacing the AFM wont help anything

[Wacky Dee]

not sure what the deal is with the different AFRs but they're not that different (0.3 difference) Where do you see 9 AFR ??

the only way to fix the AFRs is to use a piggyback device such as an SAFC to bend the AFM signal

or remap the stock ecu or get a stand alone ECU and tune it. replacing the AFM wont help anything

I see .. thanks.

Is SAFC preferred/better than a stock ecu remap ? I know most people will say just go with PFC but I can't afford it ($2k tuned)

[paulr33]

ah im a knob, the 2nd graph shows PSI, i thought it was AFR sorry - my bad

yeah safc is the cheapest way to do it, and easy, lots of tuners

and lots of safc's for sale always so that will give you the best gain

not many places can do remaps on Er34 ecu's - drdrift.com.au can - ask him how much $

[Wacky Dee]

he'n in melbourne .. but that's ok there just happens to be a thread about safc tuners in sydney, in the nsw section at the moment Cheers

[666DAN]

I'm going with the fact it's been run on a Mainline dyno...in experience they alway show a discrepency compared to a Dyno Dynamics in shootout (as mentioned)

My car once showed 187kw on a Minline where it was tuned, then belted out 208kw on a Dyno Dynamics.

It's been said a Million times, they're tuning tools...not penis enlargers!

Good to see they use a mainline though, geat dynos!