Are Hks Really Using Garret Parts?

[R31Nismoid]

HKS didnt test thier 2540 twins too well back in the day

[Gav]

HKS products (and trust etc for that matter) and tweaked, developed and TESTED on their intended specific application. so they test your RB25 GTRS kit on an RB25. the garret equivelant would never have been tested by garret on your particular model (no way could they test their wide catalouge of turbos on so many different car/engine combos). companies like HKS only sell turbos to suit specific applications and only for a small selection of cars really, so you get a product that is tested to get the best result out of your model of car. buying the generic garret gear and you are the one doing the testing. though at least now many people have tried many generic garrett parts on skylines so there is some experience out ther to draw from. but in my experience the 'brand name' japanese turbos do outperform the generic options in a few areas like fitment, spool-up, outright power and in the parts you get with the turbo that make life easy.

I'm not so sure BB - I reckon Garrett did a fair bit of work with Nissan on the GT-R terbs and their variants (R32 to R32, N1 variants etc). Nissan never prevented Garrett selling the steel wheeled variants (don't know if the ceramic turbines variants are available through Garrett - although not sure who would want them anyway). These really are only a straight bolt on to the GT-R and GTiR (in a single form).

With regards to the HKS 25/30 items these are now more than 15 years old (from memory) with very little change along the way. I reckon Garrett have surpassed this design with their 2860-5 units from a response and outright power point of view.

[Roy]

Would love someone to pony up the coin for a 2530-Kai. Whats the bet they are a 2860-5? Also, what ever happened to the so called GT-ZZ that HKS were meant to be releasing?

[SimonR32]

yeah ive been waiting for those "gt-zz" for ages

i really want a no bullshit comparison between hks t04z and garrett t04z

i dont think there would be a bees dick in it, apart from price

[phunky_monkey]

From what I've seen, and the failures I've heard of, the bearing cartridges must be different between equivalent garret and HKS turbo's. I'm no expert, but I've seen a lot of Garret's cartridges failing, and don't recall ever seeing that happen as much with HKS turbo's.

Anyone?

[BHDave]

Would love someone to pony up the coin for a 2530-Kai. Whats the bet they are a 2860-5? Also, what ever happened to the so called GT-ZZ that HKS were meant to be releasing?

A mate did a 2530 kai on a 25. It wouldn't make more than 215rwkw. He was so unimpressed he sold it within a month and bought a 2835 which was only slightly slower to build boost and went on to make 270. I got to do alot of the spanner work for both and have a quick test drive and in all honesty the difference between the 2 at the bottom end was negligable in all but really low rev cruising where you could have a heap of boost sub 2500rpm with the kai.

As for similarities between the 2860 and the kai, wouldn't have a clue...

[Lithium]

My car running a .63 Garrett GT3076R was not any worse to drive than another R33 I know with an HKS GT2535. Under 3000rpm mine didn't build boost as fast as the GT2535, but whats the point in that? Below 3000rpm is not the fun area - its the area you want to potter around in and get fuel economy... not making lots of boost.

From what I've seen, and the failures I've heard of, the bearing cartridges must be different between equivalent garret and HKS turbo's. I'm no expert, but I've seen a lot of Garret's cartridges failing, and don't recall ever seeing that happen as much with HKS turbo's.

Anyone?

HKS use a different ball bearing cage to what the Garrett units do - Garrett use a "plastic" cage which can fail, especially with insufficient cooling hence you NEED water cooling with Garrett turbos. I believe HKS use something a bit more resiliant?!

I am pretty confident what I said up there is true...

Edited June 9, 2008 by Lithium

[STATUS]

The only problem with the HKS/Blitz/Trust etc is sourcing one without an internal wastegate. You can get them, or change the exhaust housing etc but they aren't as common or as easy to come by as the Garrett equivalent. The HKS pro series was external [and I think they are now deleted], but the Pro s series is all internal.

I was originally going to go with a 2835 pro s until I read somewhere that the HKS cast low mount manifold had the best flow figures......that just started me off on a whole new tangent.

Now someone tell me different [cos I'm probably wrong here].

problem i have found with buying garret is we are quite often guinea cops.... having to port internal wastegates to make a turbo you buy off the shelf to me is insane but it happens... regulary.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

fwiw i picked up my brand spankin new hks 2835 pro s today and there is a plate on the exhaust wheel that says "garret japan"

[Lithium]

fwiw i picked up my brand spankin new hks 2835 pro s today and there is a plate on the exhaust wheel that says "garret japan"

A plate on the exhaust wheel?? Are you sure? Either way, HKS don't create the wheels - though cast their own housings in some cases.

[discopotato03]

I don't ever recall seeing a turbine with a plate on it though Garrett often have an inscription on their compressor wheels - many have the wheels part number on their back faces .

Garrett do two grades of BB cage , the std one and the (I think) ceramic one for competition turbochargers . The only reason the comp spec ones get it is because it's expected they will see long periods at high engine loads so they need to be able to hack high temps for longer periods of time .

A HKS T04Z uses the exact same cartridge as the generic one . The turbine and compressor housings are HKS specials and unique .

My opinion only but if you are going to use the split T4 footprint and the larger frame cartridge I think the GT4088R is a better thing , much more modern wheels on both sides but exy compared to a generic Garrett T04Z .

A .

[Drift SX]

I went with a garrett cause HKS are just too expensive for my budget anyway

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

A plate on the exhaust wheel?? Are you sure? Either way, HKS don't create the wheels - though cast their own housings in some cases.

hehe yeah i'm SURE!

its about 15 x 50 mm and is on the ex side... right in the middle... tried to take photo but camera phone sux teh homo and cant get close enough

[STATUS]

^^^ thats the cartridge plate.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

that's the one... it says garret and the thread is do HKS use garret parts...

[shnaped_second]

that's the one... it says garret and the thread is do HKS use garret parts...

lol most hks turbo's have that id tag

[SLY33]

Whilst this topic has been covered many times, gotta have a lol at that nissansilvia link!

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

lol most hks turbo's have that id tag

yeah... that's my point... most HKS turbo's have that GARRET id tag

[discopotato03]

The bottom line is that any manufacturer etc can go to Garrett and say I want one of your fancy ball bearing turbos dialed in to suit this application . To this they'd say well we have housings to do that or no we don't so will you make your own .

Ultimately the mob who wants it pays the development costs so its their intellectual property which Garrett can't market themselves for something like six years .

A couple of years back I was looking into a large frame BB GT3576R which Garrett make for Hino and Isuzu mainly be cause they have balls and T4 flanged twin scroll IW turbine housings available . The fall out was that Garrett and its distributors can't sell them to you even if you have a buggered one and to go get reamed by Isuzu or Hino who can sell them at a very special genuine spare part price . Getting OT but the large frame plain bearing version is available and I was trying to find out if the turbine shaft was the same and BB mods possible .

Anyway much of the HKS BB range has been around for a lot more than 6-7 years which is why you can buy them from Garrett Japan if still available and you know the cartridges part number . If you buy say a GT3076R from Garrett , or one of its distributors , what your getting is what HKS got for a GT3037S 56T . They slap their turbine housing / bell mouthed insert / tag on and sell in a HKS box . Garrett sells with their own turbine housing if required and most don't worry about the inlet piece .

I went through this process when I wanted a 52 compressor trim GT3076R/GT3037S and wanted the port shrouded compressor housing as well . I knew the cartridge number and managed to track down the compressor housing made by Garrett and fitted to GT3037S 52T turbos . GCG confirmed both part numbers and that both are available and ordered them through Garrett via Japan . They now carry these in stock here .

I don't see any reason why anyone couldn't do the same thing for say a GT2530 cartridge or the IMO better HKS spec GT3040/GT3082R 50T if you're into that kind of thing .

Often the achilles heel with HKS turbos is custom HKS housings because if you can buy them at all they are often expensive low volume things . They only do them if Garrett doesn't have suitable ones BUT its the difference these custom housings make thats often the reason why HKS turbos in some applications work that much better than a Garrett marketed unit - with whatever housings they can fit to make it look vaguely like a complete turbocharger .

Remember that from Garrett's perspective these generic aftermarket type turbos are not developed for a specified app so don't winge if they don't peform flawlessly .

If you get right into this stuff you can get to know when HKS uses a virtually complete Garrett turbocharger and merely adds a spiffy tag and maybe a wastegate actuator to crank the boost up a bit . If you were thinking GTR type GTSS and Garrett 707160-9 go to the top of the class .

Actually I stumbled across the cartridge HKS has in their single SR20/CA18 type GTSS and it is OE in believe it or not an aftermarket BB turbo for a Ssang Yong Musso diesel .

What some people do is keep an eye out for damaged HKS turbos and buy them for their at times unique housings . Provided they are ok generally a new cartridge from Garrett makes them essentially a new turbocharger .

A new cartridge is not a bad idea because the business end of things is brand new . Turbos often wear say the turbine seals journal meaning basically you need a new bearing housing along with the bearing pack and front seals . Sometimes when you add labour and balancing a hand built one can cost as much as a newin so why not have all brand spankers .

A .

The thing that makes the biggest difference is the pretty HKS tag , guaranteed to boost at idle and 100 mph higher top speed ...

[GTScotT]

A couple of years back I was looking into a large frame BB GT3576R which Garrett make for Hino and Isuzu mainly be cause they have balls and T4 flanged twin scroll IW turbine housings available . The fall out was that Garrett and its distributors can't sell them to you even if you have a buggered one and to go get reamed by Isuzu or Hino who can sell them at a very special genuine spare part price . Getting OT but the large frame plain bearing version is available and I was trying to find out if the turbine shaft was the same and BB mods possible .

I have one in near new condition sitting in the garage..

I would like to hear what your thoughts are on what the thing could be useful for. It is the 3576 with the IW T4 TS housing.