My Stock Gtr

[tommis85]

Hi all!

I had my very first sprints trackday the other day in my stock R33 GTR. The car went exceptionally well once I finally got my race-line and corner speeds under control. It was too easy to go to fast haha - speed is not always the answer.

It was an excellent opportunity to see how the stock car performs when put under the handling stresses of the track. I found out about it's strengths and weaknesses in different parts of the course. Keeping in mind that my car is as stock as it can be, I noted these main points:

Points for:

- excellent braking power in all areas

- good handling in the corners despite having highish ride hight (higher than R32's)

- nice acceleration out of corners (once I got my exit points right lol)

- nice reliability without any overheating etc

Points against:

- the car, despite it's stiff suspension, likes to roll around a bit in chicanes etc

- the car has quite a high ride height - which is where the roll comes from

- it doesnt have that much top end power when on the main straights. Power has been traded off for great handling with the torque splitting etc.

So yeh guys, those are a couple points of the top of my head. Offcourse there are more lol.

My question (finally) is, what sort of light mods could I start off with that would see some improvements for the GTR?

Light mods people! I wouldn't mind some suspension tweaks and maybe a slight inscrease in boost to say 12-14 pounds. What do you guys suggest.

How do the GTR's respond to a slight boost increase? Coil packs, fuel pressure....surging???

Cheers!

Tom

[(OO)SKYLINE(OO)]

Easy to take advantage of the power of a RB26, just the usual

Air filter / air pods

full exhaust system

boost controller to give it that safe few extra Psi.

You gota strut brace? Upgrade the suspension to give a firmer / better cornering handling.

[shepo]

it doesnt take much to get the RB26's singing

i would think about a bigger fuel pump and reg.

if youve got the standard turbos, dont increase the boost too much.

and get the suspension sorted.

[djr81]

Hi all!

I had my very first sprints trackday the other day in my stock R33 GTR. The car went exceptionally well once I finally got my race-line and corner speeds under control. It was too easy to go to fast haha - speed is not always the answer.

It was an excellent opportunity to see how the stock car performs when put under the handling stresses of the track. I found out about it's strengths and weaknesses in different parts of the course. Keeping in mind that my car is as stock as it can be, I noted these main points:

Points for:

- excellent braking power in all areas

- good handling in the corners despite having highish ride hight (higher than R32's)

- nice acceleration out of corners (once I got my exit points right lol)

- nice reliability without any overheating etc

Points against:

- the car, despite it's stiff suspension, likes to roll around a bit in chicanes etc

- the car has quite a high ride height - which is where the roll comes from

- it doesnt have that much top end power when on the main straights. Power has been traded off for great handling with the torque splitting etc.

So yeh guys, those are a couple points of the top of my head. Offcourse there are more lol.

My question (finally) is, what sort of light mods could I start off with that would see some improvements for the GTR?

Light mods people! I wouldn't mind some suspension tweaks and maybe a slight inscrease in boost to say 12-14 pounds. What do you guys suggest.

How do the GTR's respond to a slight boost increase? Coil packs, fuel pressure....surging???

Cheers!

Tom

You haven't said what tyres you are running although I would guess from the desciption it was street tyres. The fundamental question you need to ask yourself is do you wish to continue running on those tyres or get something more suitable.

The reason it is such an important question is that the setup options are, to a large degree, dictated by what rubber you have.

What sort of light mods?

1. Better tyres will be # 1 with a bullet.

2. Stiffer sway bars front and rear.

3. More -ve camber at the front.

4. Lose the HICAS

5. Stiffer suspension.

6. Get some half decent brake pads.

7. Increase the boost to 14#.

8. Install a better rear LSD.

You may have done some of these things.

For reliability an oil cooler is a must. Also overfill the motor with oil.

For better track times spend some time with an instructor. This would be my # 1 go fast "modification".

[(OO)SKYLINE(OO)]

^^ Ah yeah, you need good grip. Upgrade the wheels and get some nice, top quality rubber on them.

[tommis85]

Hey, thanks for them quick replies guys. Good stuff!

Yes, I forgot to mention that I'm running a set of 17" driftteks with 255 Nankang rubbers all round. I'm also running a set of HKS mushroom style pods which are all firmly secured with brackets. I'm yet to get one of them ARC boxes for them.

But apart from that she's stock.

DJR81...yeh mate, the best thing I can do to shave more time of the laptime is to get professional advice and training for the track. No doubt about it mate seeing that the GTR is a wonderfully designed machine anyway!

I'm interested in what you said about the oil cooler...now, I've been told that they have one and so haven't gone looking for it. I take it, that they don't have one? On the track I did notice that the oil temperature did go up to about mid-gauge which made me wonder about the quality of the now "non-existant" cooler haha! How did your car go when you put your lock bar in...big difference? Is the HICAS on the skylines just a heap of marketting w.a.n.k?

(00)SKYLINE(00)....yeh mate, I'm planning on the exhaust being my next item in conjunction with a boost controller as I've been warned that the boost, naturally, may want to creep up a bit with a higher flowing exhaust. Yes, it did come with the strut in the engine bay and boot which works a treat (compared to my GTST which doesnt have any of that haha)

So guys, when turning the boost up from the factory approx 11 pounds to say 14 pounds will the coil packs and fuel pressure live up to it. With my old skyline I got myself a set of splitfires straight away to handle the higher boost (15 pounds max on S1 steel-wheeled turbo)

I really don't want to wind the boost up if I need additional support system upgrades...too risky with the 26!!!

Cheers,

Tom

Edited May 30, 2008 by tommis85

[R34GTFOUR]

8. Install a better rear LSD.

i thought gtr's came with a 2 way lsd out of the box?

[tommis85]

Yeh I'm wondering about the LSD too...hmm, I thought they had a nice setup already.

5. Stiffer suspension.

6. Get some half decent brake pads.

7. Increase the boost to 14#.

...but I'm all for those points! I'm actually checking out some Tien Monoflex items...dreaming about them....lolz

[djr81]

i thought gtr's came with a 2 way lsd out of the box?

They do, but typically they are not set up with any useful amount of pre tension hence don't actually function as an LSd very well. Certainly not on a circuit with proper tyres & a good amount of rwhp.

[djr81]

Hey, thanks for them quick replies guys. Good stuff!

Yes, I forgot to mention that I'm running a set of 17" driftteks with 255 Nankang rubbers all round. I'm also running a set of HKS mushroom style pods which are all firmly secured with brackets. I'm yet to get one of them ARC boxes for them.

But apart from that she's stock.

DJR81...yeh mate, the best thing I can do to shave more time of the laptime is to get professional advice and training for the track. No doubt about it mate seeing that the GTR is a wonderfully designed machine anyway!

I'm interested in what you said about the oil cooler...now, I've been told that they have one and so haven't gone looking for it. I take it, that they don't have one? On the track I did notice that the oil temperature did go up to about mid-gauge which made me wonder about the quality of the now "non-existant" cooler haha! How did your car go when you put your lock bar in...big difference? Is the HICAS on the skylines just a heap of marketting w.a.n.k?

(00)SKYLINE(00)....yeh mate, I'm planning on the exhaust being my next item in conjunction with a boost controller as I've been warned that the boost, naturally, may want to creep up a bit with a higher flowing exhaust. Yes, it did come with the strut in the engine bay and boot which works a treat (compared to my GTST which doesnt have any of that haha)

So guys, when turning the boost up from the factory approx 11 pounds to say 14 pounds will the coil packs and fuel pressure live up to it. With my old skyline I got myself a set of splitfires straight away to handle the higher boost (15 pounds max on S1 steel-wheeled turbo)

I really don't want to wind the boost up if I need additional support system upgrades...too risky with the 26!!!

Yes you have an oil cooler/warmer. There is a feed that takes water from the radiator & via a small heat exchanger helps warm/cool your oil. The exchanger is just behind the oil filter.

HICAS = marketing wank.

Mine was an R32 so removing it saved alot of weight & stopped me from scaring myself silly. Personally I hate it but alot of people don't mind it. If you are aware of its function ie you can feel it when you are driving then you will be in a position to decide. If you can't feel it working then there is no point you removing it.

The RB26 will be happy on 14#, in fact there is a good argument to say that is what Nissan really had in mind when they designed them. The fuel pump, regulator & coil packs will all be happy. The only caveat is if they are already stuffed replace them.

Lastly dont know where you are but the stock Nissan box is fine & may stop you getting err, fined.

[(OO)SKYLINE(OO)]

Mind you tommis85 you want your car lighty mod.

So is your R33 GTR going to be for track or a street / daily as well.

Cause one modification will lead to another. Haha! Then you probley want more power = mildly modded, then your addicted = heavily modded.

But yeah anyway just keep in mind and will see how far you go.

[R338OY]

I say you should keep it simple.

Coilovers

Full exhaust

Boost controller (after the exhaust)

consider an oil cooler as well

See how you go with that setup. You'll realise gradually what mods you want after that

[Dearlove]

go exaust then boost controller

to give you some idea of the difference in boost when i run mine at 7psi (stock i think??) its f**king gutless, or so it seems, just runs out of power ay. but then... i turn it up up up!! to say 15psi (it can go to 18 or so...) and my god!!! the difference!!!!

so yeah, def get a boost controller

[some_cs_student]

They do, but typically they are not set up with any useful amount of pre tension hence don't actually function as an LSd very well. Certainly not on a circuit with proper tyres & a good amount of rwhp.

I wouldn't say that the GTR's diff's are that low on pretension, but you can easily rebuild it with new shims and make it tighter.

Probably a lot cheaper than buying a new one, the factory GTR LSD's are pretty strong.

[marchGTR]

just pull out the brass restrictor in the hose marked with a yellow band and you will run 14-15 psi. I would get a power FC, front-pipe back exhaust, an oil cooler for the track and better pads and you'll be laughing...250-60rwkw

[a20089]

Mostly good advice on this thread but some bad or costly advice as well.

You have a near stock R33 GTR and you are taking out to track days. Same thing I had, same thing I did. I'm still buying more stuff for the car after it blew the turbos.

The don'ts unless you want to risk big expenses

1. Increase boost - You have a 10+yo car with known badly designed turbo's. Push the boost up and the turbo's may last ages or they could blow up first track day (mine did). 14PSI is NOT safe on a race track

2. New fuel pump & injectors - Utter waste unless you are upping boost past 18PSI on a stock motor and thats 260-270 rwkw

HICAS removal is a good idea if you have driven rear wheel drive cars fast and expect the cars rear end to behave like a normal rwd car under very hard cornering. Don't be affraid to be different and try keeping the HICAS in and see how it drives before trying it without HICAS.

The items that I have or am going to do, prices indicative

1. Remote Oil cooler I recomend one with a thermastat if you live somewhere when it goes to sub 0's in winter. $ 1500 installed

2. Suspension, go the whole hog SK does a nice cheap kit for $2500 and install can cost up to $1000

3. New turbo's, those old one will die, HKS GT-SS for the track, they allow up to 300rwkw and are true bolt on replacement items Allow $5000 with install

4. Good brake pads, there's a whole thread on them somewhere, I have EBC yellow's that work very well on the road as well but are rated for the track, though a lot of track people will bag the EBC for track work. With the stock pads I had to pull out of my last drive day due to a severe lack of pads after only 2 sessions.

5. If your disks are worn then replace with slotted rotors, DON'T go the cross drilled ones for track work. I've also been told that you need heat treated ones for regular track work.

6. OIL Management, there's lots of threads about extended sumps, baffled sumps, oil pumps, oil catch cans etc. Need to take the engine out to do a proper job. This is probably the most important items for a GTR and can be the most costly.

7. Spitfore coil pack is a great idea.

Then go the next steps of a new CPU, upping boost, AFM's, Boost controlers etc.

SK - Sidney kid is probably one of the better sources of information on oil control and track racing, have a look for his responses.

[tommis85]

Hi all, thanks for the many replies! I've moved over the weekend so don't have a internet connection at home just yet. Hopefully it will be up tonight so that I can reply more regularly.

Mind you tommis85 you want your car lighty mod.

So is your R33 GTR going to be for track or a street / daily as well.

Cause one modification will lead to another. Haha! Then you probley want more power = mildly modded, then your addicted = heavily modded.

But yeah anyway just keep in mind and will see how far you go.

...well that's the best question! At this rate the car most likely wouldn't see a race day more than once every 2 months or so. My next day may not happen till like 3 or 4 months yet as I have to save up for these mods, not to mention that I need a new clutch and that on my last race day I may have damaged the 3rd to 4th gear syncro as it crunches at high rev changes (it never used to)

So, in otherwords, it will be more road-car than track-car. I'll have to take care in chosing the suspension as my area has the most neglected roads in all of Australia.

R338OY

I say you should keep it simple.

Coilovers

Full exhaust

Boost controller (after the exhaust)

consider an oil cooler as well

See how you go with that setup. You'll realise gradually what mods you want after that thumbsup.gif

...I reckon that would be the best path to take from all of your comments above. Keep the mods at a sensible level to suit my budget and what I want to use it for. Taking it out on the track in stock trim was the best thing ever as now I can take it out with some additional mild mods and see how it goes then.

a20089....yes thanks for all those tips. I am with you all the way especially for your points against winding the boost up. I am aware of those turbo's and hence have been very reluctant to touch them - it's just not worth the gamble I reckon (unless I had the money to replace them straight away and, not to mention the engine damage!) I'd much rather get a proper set of bolt-on upgrade turbos like the GT-SS's and do a proper job with 14-15 pounds rather than make life incredibly hard for what I believe are two GT25's (and not GT28's)

Guys, thanks for all the advice, especially in the last post above. You all hit the spot there as far as mild-mod's go despite some of them are not quite cheap lol. I've pretty much realized that driver skill/learning alone will cut the time down on the track so I'll need to "upgrade" that too haha.

From what I've read, and from what I deem to suit my budget I'll most likely go:

1. full "street legal" exhaust system to get some better flow on the track

2. brake pad upgrade and disc check over or replacement with slotted items.

3. suspension upgrade (a nice mix to suit daily driving but also mild track work)

4. oiler cooler. I may do this earlier if I can, and also keep thermostat in mind as it gets cool here.

Those mods would be plenty. Then, if I'm still alive after that I'll look into the turbo upgrade's to help with them straigh parts of Queensland raceway ;-)

Anyway, better get back to work =) Thanks for the help!

Edited June 1, 2008 by tommis85