Mark And Duncans R32 Build

[BezerkR32]

hey guys, do you have any pics of the water to air set-up?

we ran the PWR barrel cooler in the drag car for a while. took a bit of stuffing around to get it to work. ended up replacing the plumbing from -8 an fittings to radiator size piping to achieve enough flow to cool properly.

we had a 20litre tank in the car which we would pack full of ice water and pump it with a davies craig electric water pump. we were able to keep air temps down to 40deg at the end of the run, but being a total loss system as in having no radiator to cool the water once it had passed through, we had to change the water every pass. the water was luke warm when i would drop it, its amazing how hot the intake charge must be.

actually we are expecting to keep the intake air to within 10o of ambient even with 30+ psi which is the real benefit. but you are right it is more complex, I'd hate to do it in a roadie.

anyway, we are going to give it a go, if we get everything right first shot with this car it will be an absolute fcuking miracle. its really about trying out different ideas as much as anything after so long of only being able to race standard cars

[haw001]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a front mount Air/Air intercooler. I have them on my roadie and have run them on my sports sedan/targa car in factory form as the rules state.

The big problem with them is heat soak. Anyone running a power fc with a hand controller can see air temp, and while they start great, after 5 or 10 minutes of hard driving on even a 20 degree day will easily see air temps of 65 degrees or more. This does drastically affect performance. You can feel it more than measure it. The car always feels more punchy after a lap or 2 first thing in the morning. After that it seems to settle in. Take your car out on a cold night and it alwasy seems more vibrant. This is what we hope to acheive all the time with the water/air.

This first intercooler is on the heavy side. Much more so than it needs to be. the tanks are cast aluminimum which looks to be about 4 mm thick. As a proof of concept, the price was right, and the construction is sturdy. If it all works well, we can look at making our own using a gtst (or stagea as it looks like there will be one lying around!) stock intercooler and building the water jacket around it. For now, we'll just have to pass on the extra bacon and egg mcmuffin on the morning!

[Marlin]

totally agree on heat soak there mate...

[Angus Smart]

This thread adds alot to my "To do list" i do really like the idea of water to air but having a light as f**k Arc cooler in my car i dont think i will be heading down that path.

i will be interested like alot of people to see how well it works tho! i was always going to put a Pwr Barrel system into my gtir, in place of the famous top mount Interheater.

i do however need an airbox made up tho moving the power steering reservoir and a few other things needs to be done!

P.s. never ever ever get involved in doing a group buy!! Argggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!

[haw001]

Stuart. No pics yet other than the cooler itself which is back a couple of posts. We are going to mount it where the battery and radiator resevoir usually are. The radiator for the cooler will be mounted in the rear bumper where the number plate usually goes. This should get enough air flow on it's own, but we're going to add some panels underneath once we figure out the best way to do it and this will drive air through it even more.

The davies craig pumps are overkill. There's no need for this to be a heavily pressurised system. We need the flow to be pretty slow for the radiator to work properly. I would bet that even with the relatively short time the your drag car was running the water/air, for the 10-20 seconds sitting on the line and running the 1/4, it still burned through some of your 20L very quickly. We need it to move much slower so that the radiator has time to work.

[BezerkR32]

yeh, totally different system as ours was total loss, but we found volume of water to be the issue, not so much pressure. the small lines and pump could not flow enough water around the core.

our air tems were 15-20deg lower with this system than a air to air. but we didnt push the system for long time periods. it will be interesting to see how it goes after 5 or so laps.

Stuart. No pics yet other than the cooler itself which is back a couple of posts. We are going to mount it where the battery and radiator resevoir usually are. The radiator for the cooler will be mounted in the rear bumper where the number plate usually goes. This should get enough air flow on it's own, but we're going to add some panels underneath once we figure out the best way to do it and this will drive air through it even more.

The davies craig pumps are overkill. There's no need for this to be a heavily pressurised system. We need the flow to be pretty slow for the radiator to work properly. I would bet that even with the relatively short time the your drag car was running the water/air, for the 10-20 seconds sitting on the line and running the 1/4, it still burned through some of your 20L very quickly. We need it to move much slower so that the radiator has time to work.

[haw001]

A little research and I have found that the optimum flow is somewhere around 30 to 40 L a minute. The davies craig flow 80L a minute. Doesn't mean they won't work, as they can be reduced by dropping the voltage, just means they are overkill for the application. By all reports a very good pump though.

At full noise the DC would empty your 20L tank in 15 seconds.

We're going to start by using the 1/2 HICAS lines and see how it goes. The fittings on the radiator are 1/2 so wont be any more restrictive. Don't know if they will be ok, but there's no loss in trying them. We'll hook it up and measure the flow and see if we get 30L a minute.

[Roy]

This thread adds alot to my "To do list" i do really like the idea of water to air but having a light as f**k Arc cooler in my car i dont think i will be heading down that path.

i will be interested like alot of people to see how well it works tho! i was always going to put a Pwr Barrel system into my gtir, in place of the famous top mount Interheater.

i do however need an airbox made up tho moving the power steering reservoir and a few other things needs to be done!

P.s. never ever ever get involved in doing a group buy!! Argggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!

If you grabbed that ARC off Tony then i will pay you what you paid +$50 for it Then you can get your water to air

[N1GTR]

If you grabbed that ARC off Tony then i will pay you what you paid +$50 for it Then you can get your water to air

This one? Its sold

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...t&p=4088653

There's another one for sale, just came up:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...t&p=4127388

[haw001]

I'll check tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure my roadie has a 70mm ARC and we have a pair of Blitz blow off valves to go with if that's what your after. Let me confirm and I'll give you a price.

[haw001]

Scratch that, the ARC was the one the brother in law smashed when he borrowed my car. I do have the blitz blow off valves and a just jap intercooler.

[giant]

so umm... sounds like you guys dont watch much wrc & arc stuff !

how does 20 degree's and sometimes less sound for air intake temps and thats on 35 degree ambient days also that was a few years ago!

i was lucky enough to go for a drive in a world rally hyundai with kenneth errickson a few years ago (when marcus gronholm was king in the 206) and you should have seen the lauch control , over 40 psi on launch without clutch load!

they are getting crazy results with air temps!

[Duncan]

good to hear, we will run intake and plenum air temps to see if it was worth the trouble or not

that hyundai would have been very interesting to sit in too. 40psi thats almost as much as we are going to run thru those poor china turbos we have for this car

[giant]

yeah it was crazy , i still remember it clearly!

over 4 bar boost when at full load

[haw001]

Giant, not saying that you are wrong, I'm sure they are able to use Air/Air efficiently, but rally is very different to track, and the RB26 is very different to a 2L 4 cylinder.

I never had any air intake temperature problems with the standard intercooler at Targa, nothing like 20 degrees, but it did stay around 45 degrees. The air's colder, it's always fresh and not someone else's exhaust, and more importantly, your revs stay lower most of the time. In the still air of the track where you spend most of your time above 6000 rpm, it's just not possible to keep the temperature down for long with an air/air. Have a look at the Gibson GTR and see what they had to do to try and keep the heat down.

No guarantees with the water/air, but there's no way an air/air will work on a GTR on the track and keep it down near ambient.

[Angus Smart]

I lorveeeeeeeeeeeeeeee my arc cooler! its so damn light and apparently does a pretty good job!

[giant]

also in rallying they are allowed to use water sprayers on the intercooler, where's as your not allowed on track.

but most of it comes from water/methanol injection into the intake track under high pressure, done correctly in can actually freeze at the impeller tip!! from the airspeed when the mist travels from the centre of the impeller to the outside.

[haw001]

The water/methanol sounds interesting. I didn't want to start an argument, but I was very skeptical about a less than ambient temperature on a straight air/air intercooler. Just couldn't get my head around how it was even possible.

A lot of these total loss or injection type systems bear a bit of looking at as they have a real possibilty with what this car is being used for. Supersprints, hillclimbs, etc all have short spurts of running. A decent cooler set up is important for going round and round, but something that cools below ambient would be interesting, even if it only lasted one lap.

[Angus Smart]

As requested........ let me know if you want it, i can possibly ask my mate if he'd fix it too if your interested.

there is no lip

and you can have the spiders too!

Edited September 12, 2008 by Angus Smart

[Duncan]

What about that Gay intercooler,,,come on boys whats so bad about a normal one????

its not an intercooler mate, its a minature particle collider. hope it doesnt cause a black hole when we turn it on