Mark And Duncans R32 Build

[haw001]

No, you should be able to use a single maf.

[Angus Smart]

I run Map sensor at the moment. no afm's for me!

[Risking]

Are you running the GT-RS on standard capacity?

I had a good day with my car today... It's finally coming back together... Finally finished up all the wiring for electrics (gauges, boost controller, attesa controller, etc... which meant that I could start putting her back together. Soldering with your body contorted around a roll cage isn't the most pleasant thing in the world

Is it just me, or does everyone stuff up cutting their first dash to fit around a roll cage? :P

Bit concerned that the speedo, windscreen wipers, and indicator stalk aren't working (hazards are though)... Probably broken speedo cable, which'll be a pain the ass to change just after I put everything back into the car No idea about the indicator stalk or wipers though...

Now I just need to:

Buy a speedo cable, front windscreen rubbers, ATESSA gyro unit.

Install the above, and the oil cooler, oil pressure/oil temp/water temp sensors,

Remove the stupid 5% jap limo tint from the windows

Get the engine tuned to make the thing drive properly again.

And then it should at least be drivable again

Then to tackle the two most expensive bits on the car.... Brakes and suspension.

<sigh>

Yeah stock 2.6 capacity but its far from a stock engine. Extensive times been spent on the head and its a realativly high comp (9.2:1) engine.

In my opinion the GTRS is no where near as bad as what people have made it out to be.

Accusump was about $250 second hand, plus whatever fittings and hoses will be needed, say another $30 should cover it.

It will be located where the Hicas pump/solenoid thingy used to live, that is under the plenum on the chassis rail. About as short a line to the oil feed as possible without screwing it straight into the block (which could be a bit difficult).

I'll mount the manifolds and turbos tomorrow, which will cover one side at least. Still waiting on the plenum for the other side.

30 bucks to plumb in an accusump is a bit short unless your planning to use cheap/nasty fittings and rubber hose??

Atleast buy decent quality earls fittings and use braided lines. I know its being built on a small budget (like alot of us) but dont you think you have to draw a line and do things from a long term reliablity point of view instead of a tight arse point??

Not meaning to sound offensive as I admire what you have done but I just think your going to be asking for so much drama when you do take it out and will be forced to re-do things that have had corners cut to save a buck here and there.

250 bucks would cover the proper fittings and braid you'd need to do the job right and save yourself the worry of rubber lines spliting and hose clamped connections coming apart.

Just my point of view but meh..

Ive never liked the acumulator concept. There is a massive thread on PF about them, so many negatives (that are waranted and make logical sence) versus the small postives.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Risking

[shanef]

Further more to the acumulator, its only really a band aid fix/in between a wet sump and a dry sump

The other option which not many people have thought of/put into practice is using an external belt driven oil pump (aka single stage dry sump pump). I've just ordered one from BDG for this car im currently building, and it'll cost the same completed as if you were to buy a JUN pump (with the way the current dollar is, a jun pump is atleast $1500)

[Risking]

Those BDG pumps are brilliant shane and their service is excellent. There a much nicer size than the 3 stage you had. Ive done a wet sump single stage pump recently (after my full dry sump) to another GTR and it works really well.

Was roughly half the cost of my 6 stage dry set-up and seems to work fine.

We'll be doing another wet sump/single stage shortly to my old grey GTR once the new owner gets his engine parts sorted.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Risking

[Angus Smart]

My friends just made this for someone. external pump (i think) on an extended sump

tho i took photos for the purpose of getting him to make sumps for gtr's as his price is very good

[N1GTR]

Isnt that a bit low? Eg, ground clearance?

[Risking]

I know that sump andrew, or one that looks identical!

Sam and I had a chat about it when it was dropped of to be fitted to the engine its used on. Its using a moroso single stage external pump on a big dollar stroker. As far as im aware its still not in the car and running due to the moroso mounting bracket and crank mandrel.

As well as the sump is made its far from being practical on a circuit GTR. Id give it one session before the bottom is smashed to bits. Its simply far far too low.

[Swiper the Fox]

Yeah stock 2.6 capacity but its far from a stock engine. Extensive times been spent on the head and its a realativly high comp (9.2:1) engine.

In my opinion the GTRS is no where near as bad as what people have made it out to be.

Agree, its all in the head to get them to work properly...mine were very responsive once we did the head.

[shanef]

Those BDG pumps are brilliant shane and their service is excellent. There a much nicer size than the 3 stage you had. Ive done a wet sump single stage pump recently (after my full dry sump) to another GTR and it works really well.

Was roughly half the cost of my 6 stage dry set-up and seems to work fine.

We'll be doing another wet sump/single stage shortly to my old grey GTR once the new owner gets his engine parts sorted.

Thats good to know.

Did you end up using that 3 stage on anyting yet?

[Risking]

Sure is Paul

Mine used to be a nugget.

Now its as responsive as the old 2530's the car had when I purchased it, making more torque everywhere and peak power is into the very high 400's

This engine with the head done and cams selected accordingly is totally different to the last set-up.

Cams had to be trial end errored which was pain staking and expensive but really worth while.

Shane

I have used the 3 stage pump on another engine that I dry sumped but its not a GTR. It worked really well. Just had a nightmare time trying to make up a scavenger manifold for it, being so short and stumpy it loaned its self well to craped areas where manifold was difficult to fabricate.

I ended up getting a selection of pumps from single to five stage, and in the end used a 6 stage barnes pump (overkill but works really well)

Only problem with those BDG pumps that I have come across is slight oil leaks from the o rings between the stages. the two Ive had looked like the o rings were to smaller diameter and not sealing properly. GTR jason has one on his R32 (four stage from memory) and has not had that problem though.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Risking

[Swiper the Fox]

double post deleted

Edited November 3, 2008 by DiRTgarage

[Swiper the Fox]

Sure is Paul

Mine used to be a nugget.

Now its as responsive as the old 2530's the car had when I purchased it, making more torque everywhere and peak power is into the very high 400's

This engine with the head done and cams selected accordingly is totally different to the last set-up.

Cams had to be trial end errored which was pain staking and expensive but really worth while.

Shane

I have used the 3 stage pump on another engine that I dry sumped but its not a GTR. It worked really well. Just had a nightmare time trying to make up a scavenger manifold for it, being so short and stumpy it loaned its self well to craped areas where manifold was difficult to fabricate.

I ended up getting a selection of pumps from single to five stage, and in the end used a 6 stage barnes pump (overkill but works really well)

Only problem with those BDG pumps that I have come across is slight oil leaks from the o rings between the stages. the two Ive had looked like the o rings were to smaller diameter and not sealing properly. GTR jason has one on his R32 (four stage from memory) and has not had that problem though.

Same...i was shocked at how much of a pig it was when i did the 2530 > GTRS swap. What works for the 2530's definately doesn't for the RS's

yeah the cam selection is a little tricky and what works to improve response actually goes against what most people would think.

was disapointed i was too busy come over and say g'day when you were up in Newcastle last getting tuned...would have been good to compare notes.

Edited November 3, 2008 by DiRTgarage

[shanef]

Sure is Paul

Mine used to be a nugget.

Now its as responsive as the old 2530's the car had when I purchased it, making more torque everywhere and peak power is into the very high 400's

This engine with the head done and cams selected accordingly is totally different to the last set-up.

Cams had to be trial end errored which was pain staking and expensive but really worth while.

Shane

I have used the 3 stage pump on another engine that I dry sumped but its not a GTR. It worked really well. Just had a nightmare time trying to make up a scavenger manifold for it, being so short and stumpy it loaned its self well to craped areas where manifold was difficult to fabricate.

I ended up getting a selection of pumps from single to five stage, and in the end used a 6 stage barnes pump (overkill but works really well)

Only problem with those BDG pumps that I have come across is slight oil leaks from the o rings between the stages. the two Ive had looked like the o rings were to smaller diameter and not sealing properly. GTR jason has one on his R32 (four stage from memory) and has not had that problem though.

beauty, thanks for the heads up

[Angus Smart]

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=imc010cFHJ0

on his other videos he has said t88, but this video says t51r? much difference?

it looks fun

[N1GTR]

Sure does look fun! He's having a bit of a hard time keeping it straight

[Risking]

Same...i was shocked at how much of a pig it was when i did the 2530 > GTRS swap. What works for the 2530's definately doesn't for the RS's

yeah the cam selection is a little tricky and what works to improve response actually goes against what most people would think.

was disapointed i was too busy come over and say g'day when you were up in Newcastle last getting tuned...would have been good to compare notes.

There a rather funny turbo but a seriously miss understood one. Its a shame they have been wiped by many people but I guess it does cost a fair bit to get them up and working properly.

We did the porting using a flow bench and based everything around the compressor and turbine maps. (turbine maps were from the local garrett -10's) Using two separate heads one ported for the highest volume we could possible achieve and the other to suit the needs of the GTRS (or what we believed they needed)

The difference once fitted to the engine (and tunned on an engine dyno) was suprising to say the least.

Final cam specs are one thing that I keep written in the very back of my vehicle logs and speak rarely of in detail. The ammount of R&D that went into the selection was well worth the effort though.

Cam doctor and grinder got a work out over those few nights.

Ill be back up there shortly with some luck. Ive got another car to do and a touch up for my GTR. Will be sure to let you know when I head up.

Had nothing but trivial head aches last time I was up there!!

Edited November 4, 2008 by Risking

[Merli]

I honestly envy you blokes with the money and patience to do such intricate builds on your cars

Two heads just to see which one is better???

Porting work matched to compressor maps???

Back-to-back testing of different cam grinds??? :blink:

Awesome stuff But I guess with that much work, you could get ANY turbo, no matter how mismatched to a stock engine to work nicely.

[Duncan]

haha me too. we've had the chinese turbos on the flow bench for ages to nail the right port size, and we had a whole heap of different workshops work on different head configurations for us.

sif. most time we spent so far was cutting the manifolds so the turbos fitted low mount with the outlets in roughly the right direction

but still, if you can afford it, it can really pay off. Paul has Oz's 2nd quickest low mount gtr, and I'm pretty sure Brad is making even more power than either Paul or Russ, that car is a monster.

So yes. no doubt. I'm just jealous.

[Risking]

Its not all expence. Patience is a massive thing that I lack severly.

I have a good mate who owns a machine shop and engine dyno so alot of the machining and so forth did not cost anything.

The heads were an experiment that proved alot in the real world, much of which is contrary to popular belief. Problem with the sort of thing we did/do is that those who read about it on the interweb refuse to grasp the concept as its not the mainstream way to do things, but who says mainstream is the correct way??

Porting is an art that im slowly learning, it really is not a case of one port for all set-ups. It needs to be carefully thought out and bigger is not always better. When someone says to me now oh the head is ported my new train of thought is yep could be good could be bad.

I have a customer/good mate who is building a massively overkill 2.8. His engineer has cut up 2 heads and cylinder block just to assess what can be done about uneven heating etc. Its ridiculous the lengths his gone to but again if/when he tells people what he found will they listen??

Im not sure what Paul was making in the end Duncan but yeah its well and truely up there now. I think I may still be down on Brandsters car but I know the top speed at oran park is well above their's.

Pull the head back off Duncan, Ill pick it up. Can never do enough R&D....

Edited November 4, 2008 by Risking