Is Hsv W427 Worth $150k-$170k?

[m3gtr]

Plenty of Walkinshaws sell for good money, ditto the VN Grp A. A $35,000 walkinshaw is one that is being given away these days. I spend way too much time looking at used car prices and there are not many of these cars on the market so if you want one you often have to pay the asking price less a bit as most move around within car clubs from one owner to the other.

And all those stil saying the car doesnt go, doesnt handle, doesnt stop, i will copy what someone else posted. Watch this ... http://youtube.com/watch?v=qn7Z-iLa8h0 and look at the time of the car directly above it (wet time)

Clarkson doesnt pull punches and he thinks its a hoot to drive, does all the right things and for a large sedan is easy to throw around and control. And consider that locally a used V10 M5 is the same price as the new HSV. I think its expensive, sure, ludicrous money to spend on ANY car.

But with what the car is trying to achieve. Plenty of performance and driving enjoyment, big sedan with plenty of space. A certain amount of exclusivity which new is the same price as a used 2 yr old M5. Peronally buy an RS4 over all of them

lol, Clarkson said it himself when commenting on what people are missing out on when buying the commodore...

"This has a BMW BADGE, and that is worth its weight in gold. The Holden on the other hand is being sold...as a Vauxhaul."

Nuf said at least on that level alone.

He then went on to say it had the exterior of a drop price tv with all its cheap trinketry and the main reason its 30,000 pounds cheaper was because it was 30k pounds less complicated and that speaks volumes.

lol.

Edited June 12, 2008 by m3gtr

[m3gtr]

LOL....

i watched targa tasmania last weekend n the r35 got spanked by a a evo lancer n a porshe and a lambo and then it broke BAHAHAHAHAHAHAH all mighty broken GTR r35 on a tow truck BAHAHAHAHAHAHA n i like nissans but they way u guys go on and on and on had to bring this up LOL

so whois first to defend the almighty broken r35 that gets beaten by a lancer LOL

Mate.

I doubt your Tsutsuuustststuu mobile fares any better.

[Roy]

lol, Clarkson said it himself when commenting on what people are missing out on when buying the commodore...

"This has a BMW BADGE, and that is worth its weight in gold. The Holden on the other hand is being sold...as a Vauxhaul."

Nuf said at least on that level alone.

He then went on to say it had the exterior of a drop price tv with all its cheap trinketry and the main reason its 30,000 pounds cheaper was because it was 30k pounds less complicated and that speaks volumes.

lol.

Well some people need a badge, others dont. It is cheaper, so what do you expect with regards to features? Well you would expect less, and to many (myself anway) you are not getting less. Its a matter of the BMW gives you SHIT that i dont want, care for; and sure as hell dont want to pay for. How many diff settings, shift settings does a car need. I want a 3 pedal manual, dont need silly seats that actuate based on cornering etc etc etc Again, some people say less, to me thats techno wank which i dont want.

So compared that i dont care about badges, hell anyone paying big money on a Nissan obviously doesnt care about a badge, how is a Holden any different to a Nissan from a prestige maker stance. Hell they went broke a few years back and to this day do not make a single car that i would pay for off the showroom floor.

So take away the badge and gadgets and you are left with a car that some people like. No better, no worse...just different.

Styling is a matter of taste, i like the new HSV range and general consensus is they are good looking things, aggressive and sporting. M cars and the German cars in general have always been masters of understatement. Something the Japanese do not indulge and nor do out local manufacturers when they trick up the high spec cars.

Anway...this is just debate for debates sake. I am a car person, i see the good in all cars. But also left disappointed by so many new cars

[m3gtr]

Well some people need a badge, others dont. It is cheaper, so what do you expect with regards to features? Well you would expect less, and to many (myself anway) you are not getting less. Its a matter of the BMW gives you SHIT that i dont want, care for; and sure as hell dont want to pay for. How many diff settings, shift settings does a car need. I want a 3 pedal manual, dont need silly seats that actuate based on cornering etc etc etc Again, some people say less, to me thats techno wank which i dont want.

So compared that i dont care about badges, hell anyone paying big money on a Nissan obviously doesnt care about a badge, how is a Holden any different to a Nissan from a prestige maker stance. Hell they went broke a few years back and to this day do not make a single car that i would pay for off the showroom floor.

So take away the badge and gadgets and you are left with a car that some people like. No better, no worse...just different.

Styling is a matter of taste, i like the new HSV range and general consensus is they are good looking things, aggressive and sporting. M cars and the German cars in general have always been masters of understatement. Something the Japanese do not indulge and nor do out local manufacturers when they trick up the high spec cars.

Anway...this is just debate for debates sake. I am a car person, i see the good in all cars. But also left disappointed by so many new cars

Roy, im sorry mate. Im going to have to pick away at your post - it needs it.

You claim that people need a "badge" and that others dont. Why do you think people DO need that badge besides some who want the wank factor. Nobody buys an M to be a wanker. Thats for the 318 crowd. They DO buy the "badge" that you say others dont want for everything the badge encompasses which by no surprise consists of 50 more years of car engineering experience. To use the old adage, BMW was around before Holden was a twinkle in your daddies eye...

Clarkson even said THAT was worth 30 THOUSAND pounds. Thats a heavy "badge" Roy.

You go as far as to say that you admit you expect less from a car that is made by holden. So, in essence, you are admitting the Holden is overpriced which is a point i dont think you would argue but then you change your tune and say that less is more??

Sorry, mate, you contradict yourself. How can you claim on one hand that the car is awesome despite the fact that it has low levels of technology and yet claim that you arent getting "any less".

You may not want diff settings, adjustable load bearing seats, gearbox settings and all the upperclass trimmings and build quality that goes with the M5 but the M5 DESERVES the price tag based SOLELY on what it has engineered into it and THAT without even looking at brand value!

If i were to be cynical, id argue you resent the level of technology the R35 has in it based on the fact its the same price as the 427 and yet employs a load of technology the lumbering, neanderthall Holden could only dream of but we both know neither of us are that way inclined.

If i wanted a base level, primal, edge of the seat, feel every bump, no traction control, diff/steer/brake assisted systemed, feel every rev and kph through every sinew of my body ill pump 5k to 10k into another superkart that will make the 427 feel like a rudderless titanic and deliver smiles everytime i even feather the throttle and even then can blow the 427 into the weeds in acceleration, cornering and braking G's and lap any circuit seconds faster.

The 427 is a bullshit excuse, going by what you are saying, for a no hold barred, pure and unbridled driving experience.

And at 170k, the underwhelming 427 is a ridiculously and outrageously overpriced lump of unrefined fail, not even served hot, but ice cold.

Edited June 12, 2008 by m3gtr

[bozodos]

If you'd watched that review all the way through you would have noticed that Clarkson loved the R8 apart from its "moronic" styling, and it was in fact reasonably quick around their test track even - when he put the time on the list, I'm pretty sure it was just below the Porsche 911 Turbo!

Having technological innovation is all well and good, but if its pure wank factor stuff like seat and diff settings, is it really worth the extra price, or even having it standard fitment in the car in the first place?

To those who are whinging about upping displacement in the motors etc, the 6 litre was made standard across the range because it met more stringent emissions targets than the 5.7 litre, I believe it's also more fuel efficient (and a whole lot more so than the old 5 litre), those of us who drive RB powered cars can't really say anything about fuel consumption, they are hardly econobox motors either.

As for the troll, you did mention a rally there, and an EVO Lancer, which are wait for it, built for HANDLING as well as that type of motorsport, not to mention the V35 GT-R is still a pretty new thing in the racing scene. You also drive the Skyline's retarded half cousin the VL Turbo, possibly one of the worst and cheaply made Commodores ever! Maybe you should start a similar thread on the Calais Turbo forums, you might find some agreement on your opinion there

[m3gtr]

Boz,

I did watch the video all the way through and i did hear him say he loves driving it for the simpleness of it but this isnt the argument here.

If it were we'd be arguing the case for a 170k Holden being worth the stuff it doesn't come with.

Lol, he was saying, " If i want to go left or right, i turn this wheel here and if i want to go fast i push this pedal on the right and to stop the pedal in the middle."

Hahah, he's taking the piss and you know it.

For crying out loud, yes it placed below the 911 but Clarkson even quipped it was below the rest of Europe - a pretty damning statement in itself.

If you really believe the technological advancements and creature comforts the M5 employs and excels in are overrated and unnecessary, you are essentially saying the 50 years of extra motoring engineeirng experience and motorsport achievement was also wasted.

You may as well admit then that the R35 is a lame duck because of the same disease and that, my friend, would be a daft and pointless thing to do and we both know its beyond argument.

Essentially, Clarkson was ridiculing the commodore, which they love, saying its nowhere on par with the product of equal and opposite stature that European manufacturers offer as standard...notwithstanding the bullshit comparo with cooking versions from the various stables.

He simply admired the holden for what it was and that it was a technologically underwhelming brute with no finesse, manners and refinement.

The bottom line in this for me then is the price tag and it STILL smacks of arrogance and over expectation.

Edited June 12, 2008 by m3gtr

[m3gtr]

Ah f**k...

I just realized Roy, Boz, myself and a few others set this thread alight again...

Oh well...

Let it burn...

Edited June 12, 2008 by m3gtr

[coakman]

If you'd watched that review all the way through you would have noticed that Clarkson loved the R8 apart from its "moronic" styling, and it was in fact reasonably quick around their test track even - when he put the time on the list, I'm pretty sure it was just below the Porsche 911 Turbo!

Having technological innovation is all well and good, but if its pure wank factor stuff like seat and diff settings, is it really worth the extra price, or even having it standard fitment in the car in the first place?

To those who are whinging about upping displacement in the motors etc, the 6 litre was made standard across the range because it met more stringent emissions targets than the 5.7 litre, I believe it's also more fuel efficient (and a whole lot more so than the old 5 litre), those of us who drive RB powered cars can't really say anything about fuel consumption, they are hardly econobox motors either.

As for the troll, you did mention a rally there, and an EVO Lancer, which are wait for it, built for HANDLING as well as that type of motorsport, not to mention the V35 GT-R is still a pretty new thing in the racing scene. You also drive the Skyline's retarded half cousin the VL Turbo, possibly one of the worst and cheaply made Commodores ever! Maybe you should start a similar thread on the Calais Turbo forums, you might find some agreement on your opinion there

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

I am absolutely cacking myself here - "You also drive the Skyline's retarded half cousin the VL Turbo".

I used to drive one of those (when I was chasing pure power) and that's when I learned that power isn't everything. Great powerplant, Commodore handling. Not a good combination...

I one hundred percent agree with the 'retarded half-cousin comment', and that's now why I'm driving a GTR!

[Roy]

If you really believe the technological advancements and creature comforts the M5 employs and excels in are overrated and unnecessary, you are essentially saying the 50 years of extra motoring engineeirng experience and motorsport achievement was also wasted.

You may as well admit then that the R35 is a lame duck because of the same disease and that, my friend, would be a daft and pointless thing to do and we both know its beyond argument.

Yep all a complete waste, gizzmos and driver aids are for blokes that need viagra!

To me the technology from race cars that should be included in road cars is cooling, aero and reduced drag, combustion chamber design and comptuign power for power and fuel economy. Composites and materials, do you knwo they glue cars together these days? Suspension design and shock or other suspension damping technogy etc. There is masses of things that have come from development, motorsport technology that has improved cars. Making a car with so many steering wheels butons/settings is just, to me, marketing hoopidee hoooo haaaa. Some want it because like the HSVs the cars have a market and there are tens of thousands of people buying them globally.

Would HSV sell more cars if this new creation was more M5 with gadgets and features? I say no, in fact probably sell less because of their inclusion and price hike. So again i think for the intended market HSV's pencil is pretty sharp. Whether i/we agree with the market is not the issue. Good business is serving your market.

And subtle difference, but to me you are not buying a badge, you are buying what the badge insiunates. M means more bang then any other BMW. HSV more bang then any other Holden. I dont care if its a BMW bage, Holden badge or a Nissan badge, as long as its does what i want from a car. Nissans are all steaming piles of boring poop these days with the GTR the only itneresting car which isnt my sort of car. I wait with interest for he Silvia replacement.

[coakman]

Nissans are all steaming piles of boring poop these days with the GTR the only itneresting car which isnt my sort of car.

And you're a member of the Skyline Forums because GTR's aren't your type of car?

Confusing!

I really don't think you're going to convince many people here that a $170,000 HSV is good value for money (especially slagging off the GTR name), regardless of how long you post for...

[Roy]

And you're a member of the Skyline Forums because GTR's aren't your type of car?

Confusing!

I really don't think you're going to convince many people here that a $170,000 HSV is good value for money (especially slagging off the GTR name), regardless of how long you post for...

Really, bugger Not my intention to convince anyone of anything. Just pointing out that HOLDEN + SHIT = SHIT HSV is kind of ignorant. If you really believe that. To me no car is really worth that sort of money, which doesnt matter as they obviously are not marketing any of these sorts of cars at me. Again thats the point, many on this board dont get the HSVs etc, we are all here because our respective Skylines/rides are our sorts of cars. Im just trying to highlight that there is a market for these cars and Holden like any smart business are serving it.

As for me being on a Skylines forum i love Skylines, 240Zs etc. The new GTR whilst i respect and marvel at its awesome ability. Its not my style of car, and the rest of the Nissan range, again i am not a soccer mum

[Yidz]

Roy, you've hit so many points on the head and I can say that I agree with you wholly on your stance in this conversation.

Well some people need a badge, others dont. It is cheaper, so what do you expect with regards to features? Well you would expect less, and to many (myself anway) you are not getting less. Its a matter of the BMW gives you SHIT that i dont want, care for; and sure as hell dont want to pay for. How many diff settings, shift settings does a car need. I want a 3 pedal manual, dont need silly seats that actuate based on cornering etc etc etc Again, some people say less, to me thats techno wank which i dont want.

So compared that i dont care about badges, hell anyone paying big money on a Nissan obviously doesnt care about a badge, how is a Holden any different to a Nissan from a prestige maker stance. Hell they went broke a few years back and to this day do not make a single car that i would pay for off the showroom floor.

So take away the badge and gadgets and you are left with a car that some people like. No better, no worse...just different.

Mate, you are absolutely spot on with this. As much as the BMW much be a more refined car & include all of these other options, some people just don't need them or neither want them.

M3GTR, the argument isn't "Which Car Is More Refined; M3 or 427." You wouldn't have any arguments there on any side. You don't need to convince people of just what options these "M" spec cars come out with because it's quite clear to most people exactly what they are and what they include. That said, when people are weighing up what car to purchase for that sort of dollar, as mentioned, they can watch Top Gear, check out Drive.com.au, Motor, Wheels etc etc, the sources are endless where people acquire their information about new cars. It's how they react to this information that will cut a clear winner in their mind of the car they want to buy.

To be short, who gives two f**ks what Jeremy Clarkson says. It's like reading the newspaper and deciding not to see a movie because a critic gave it 2/10. You might go and watch it and even though "It's storyline went no where" or "The ending was average" you laughed your ass off and you might just go back and see it again. These people saw in the movie what this critic didn't. It's the same principle.

What some things do for some people, may not do it for others. The best in your eyes doesn't have to be the best in someone else's mind. It's quite a simple logic. I don't think an M3 is worth $150,000. It's a car. I don't agree with any car that to pay off would cost as much as paying off a house. Its a piece of metal. It's the same with the HSV. Different features for a different market.

I don't think the arrogance is coming from Holden or HSV. It's the arrogance of people who can't accept what HSV have done, and the fact that it's not to their tastes or "standards" so to speak. If being able to price a car at $170,000 and have more demand than supply for the car, then I think the word to use isn't arrogance. The word to use is "successful."

[Guest trikdoutvl]

i love the way ppl who think driving a skyline (rice burner) think there a higher breed of human beings LOLOLOL......

the other day i saw a nissan pulsar n i pulled over n let the almighty nissan past n stared in the amazment of actually seeing a nissan with my own 2 eyes BAHAHA..... buying a nissan aint anything special so every1 who thinks there shit dont stink..... now if u were all bugatti veryon drivers then u could act all high n mighty come bak to earth ppl

[Guest trikdoutvl]

o n m3gtr my vlt gets thrashed everyday hard n dont break so yes i imagine my vl could beat the r35 gtr at targa tasmania

[coakman]

i love the way ppl who think driving a skyline (rice burner) think there a higher breed of human beings LOLOLOL......

the other day i saw a nissan pulsar n i pulled over n let the almighty nissan past n stared in the amazment of actually seeing a nissan with my own 2 eyes BAHAHA..... buying a nissan aint anything special so every1 who thinks there shit dont stink..... now if u were all bugatti veryon drivers then u could act all high n mighty come bak to earth ppl

Eh...the almighty Nissan referred to in this forum is not a Pulsar...

[-33-]

i love the way ppl who think driving a skyline (rice burner) think there a higher breed of human beings LOLOLOL......

the other day i saw a nissan pulsar n i pulled over n let the almighty nissan past n stared in the amazment of actually seeing a nissan with my own 2 eyes BAHAHA..... buying a nissan aint anything special so every1 who thinks there shit dont stink..... now if u were all bugatti veryon drivers then u could act all high n mighty come bak to earth ppl

Sorry i got lost... what do pulsars have to do with W427's again?

Anyway

I can understand saying Holdens are technologically inferior

I can understand saying you don't want to pay 150k for it (I personally wouldn't... investment? Theres better things to invest in than cars. No-one bought a GTHO back in the 50s thinking they were going to sell it in 50 years time for 10x the price)

BUT.

I disagree with people bagging Holden for selling it at 150k. Why wouldn't they? Holden has a monopoly on bogans. Bogans will buy the car = PROFIT. Smart move.

If you could sell your bike for 150K wouldn't you? Of course you would.

[Guest trikdoutvl]

how many ppl have driven the w427 ...................................................................... thats wat i thought 0.......... and how many have driven the gtr 35.......................................0 again ............................................. how many have driven the bmw in question......................................... maybe a few.. how can u say 1s betta then the other when not 1 of u have driven em all??????

full stop end of disscussion....................

[Modena]

how many ppl have driven the w427 ...................................................................... thats wat i thought 0.......... and how many have driven the gtr 35.......................................0 again ............................................. how many have driven the bmw in question......................................... maybe a few.. how can u say 1s betta then the other when not 1 of u have driven em all??????

full stop end of disscussion....................

People like to judge things by their previous experience... and I am fairly certain that there is no way an HSV would come close to performance, handling and bang for buck that of an R35 GTR.

Then again the only people who will buy the limited edition W427 will be HSV fans with big wallets.

[GTR-32U]

well while people will happily put down the $170K for the Commodore, HSV will continue to sell them at that price.I guess their is a market for it

[coakman]

how many ppl have driven the w427 ...................................................................... thats wat i thought 0.......... and how many have driven the gtr 35.......................................0 again ............................................. how many have driven the bmw in question......................................... maybe a few.. how can u say 1s betta then the other when not 1 of u have driven em all??????

full stop end of disscussion....................

More to the point, how many people have driven your fully sick, VL Turbo that eats R35's for breakfast?

That sounds like the ultimate bang-for-your-buck! (Cornering ability and batteries not included)