Is Hsv W427 Worth $150k-$170k?

[mesmerized]

this thread reminds me of the conversations my mates and I have at the local Autobarn carpark most friday nights

you hang out in the autobarn carpark most friday nights?

[bozodos]

Well its big. open and well lit, across the road from a 24 hour BP, its next to the highway where everyone races and bogans try to 'drift' the roundabout, often knocking down light poles to much hilarity, it doesn't have a time limit on parking, i can't think of a better place to hang out

[Guest trikdoutvl]

if top gear do come here they'll properly do something shit like drive accross austraila in a old holden or something, i caint see 1 of the few owners of r35s in australia putting there hands up to give top gear the cars... fingers crossed theyll do something cool

[Yidz]

Well its big. open and well lit, across the road from a 24 hour BP, its next to the highway where everyone races and bogans try to 'drift' the roundabout, often knocking down light poles to much hilarity, it doesn't have a time limit on parking, i can't think of a better place to hang out

Sounds like Sylvania Maccas back in the day

[ras1983]

Here's a video of a first drive by Drive.com.au; sounds awesome under full throttle.

This thing would be a nice drive!

http://media.drive.com.au/?rid=39832

[Smitizen]

Sh*t that's ugly.

Sounds like you're paying by the kilo.

[ras1983]

I agree its ugly, and I've already made my opinion known that its not worth $150K, but I'd still like to take one for a drive (though I'd take an R35 GTR over the W427 any day).

Still, you can't argue with 373Kw and 640Nm and I appreciate the car for what it is.

[HEKT1K]

having read all 11 pages of this thread, i'm pretty sure none of you have answered the original question.

"Is HSV w427 worth $150k - $170k?"

Nowhere in the above question do Jeremy Clarkson, the r35 gtr, bmw m3.. etc etc get a mention.

at the end of the day, a car is only ever 'worth' what someone is willing to pay for it. If all 427 of these things are sold for whatever their asking price happens to be, they are technically 'worth' that much.

Not wanting to split hairs too much, all the debate about whether or not they are a good buy as compared to a GTR or anything else for this sort of coin does little to answer the original question.

My personal opinion? - $170k for a Holden is a dead-set insult, stonking power figures notwithstanding. There is more to cars than their 1/4mile and 0-100km/h times. After leaving my old VP commodore for my r33, it's safe to say i will NEVER buy another Aussie car ever again. I love Australia,

if i want to support the economy ill buy food that's Australian produced and owned.

[kralster]

why do people think nissan have more "racing cred" than holden or in effect GM??? nissan have made one car that everyone knows about the GT-R for every turbo skyline model there are is another crappy maxima, or tiida, or pulsar.

Nissan are no where near the leauge of proper sports only car makes like ferrari, lamboghini, porsche (i'll excuse the cayenne), etc, etc. They are just another car maker making the same shit as everyone else, and judging from the financial success in the 90's and early 2000's they weren't that good.

[coakman]

why do people think nissan have more "racing cred" than holden or in effect GM??? nissan have made one car that everyone knows about the GT-R for every turbo skyline model there are is another crappy maxima, or tiida, or pulsar.

Nissan are no where near the leauge of proper sports only car makes like ferrari, lamboghini, porsche (i'll excuse the cayenne), etc, etc. They are just another car maker making the same shit as everyone else, and judging from the financial success in the 90's and early 2000's they weren't that good.

Dude, you really need to check your facts before you go shooting off your mouth.

Has Holden ever been banned for being too successful in racing?

In multiple countries?

No?

Nissan has been.

I'd call that racing cred...

Nissan has also produced a number of cars popular among the performance car fraternity. Perhaps you may have heard of them? Maybe even a whisper? The 180SX and 200SX (most popular drift car beside the AE86), 240(Devil)Z, 300ZX, 350Z, as well the legendary GT-R.

I like your comparison to Ferrari, Lamboghini (I assume you meant to spell Lamborghini), and Porsche. Supercars they truly are, and I love every one of them! But they also have supercar pricetags, unlike the Nissans.

However, you may wish to check the price of the new GT-R against that beloved Porsche that you mentioned above, then read the reviews on how well they compare together. Hell, Jeremy Clarkson put his neck out while fanging the new GT-R around a Japanese racetrack recently. You couldn't pay for publicity like that...

I've never understood these people who appear to love a particular brand of car, yet go posting on OTHER brand forums trying to convince everybody there that their brand sucks.

That strikes me as being just plain dumb.

You love your Holdens?

Good on you!

Go post on the Holden forums, you twit!

Edited July 24, 2008 by coakman

[Smitizen]

having read all 11 pages of this thread, i'm pretty sure none of you have answered the original question.

"Sh*t that's ugly."

Translation - "I'd never pay $150k for that horrid automobile."

Happy now?

[Smitizen]

Dude, you really need to check your facts before you go shooting off your mouth.

Has Holden ever been banned for being too successful in racing?

In multiple countries?

No?

Nissan has been.

I'd call that racing cred...

Nissan has also produced a number of cars popular among the performance car fraternity. Perhaps you may have heard of them? Maybe even a whisper? The 180SX and 200SX (most popular drift car beside the AE86), 240(Devil)Z, 300ZX, 350Z, as well the legendary GT-R.

I like your comparison to Ferrari, Lamboghini (I assume you meant to spell Lamborghini), and Porsche. Supercars they truly are, and I love every one of them! But they also have supercar pricetags, unlike the Nissans.

However, you may wish to check the price of the new GT-R against that beloved Porsche that you mentioned above, then read the reviews on how well they compare together. Hell, Jeremy Clarkson put his neck out while fanging the new GT-R around a Japanese racetrack recently. You couldn't pay for publicity like that...

I've never understood these people who appear to love a particular brand of car, yet go posting on OTHER brand forums trying to convince everybody there that their brand sucks.

That strikes me as being just plain dumb.

You love your Holdens?

Good on you!

Go post on the Holden forums, you twit!

LMFAO!

[GTR-N1]

Hi!

The original Q was, "Is HSV W427 Worth say $160K?"

My story about a fellow chemist friend of mine is that his family used to own lots of Holdens and he loved them.

In 2002, he owned an R33 GT-R V-Spec 2, a HSV GTS and his wife had a WRX STi. So in no way was he overly prejudiced!

When it came to upgrading to an R34 GT-R V-Spec 1 + a daily, he went to sell both the R33 and the GTS.

Values of cars as you know are determined by market forces including supply and demand etc.

The R33 GT-R (white colour) was purchased for about $58K and sold for $45K

The HSV GTS (dark blue) was bought for $98K and sold for $47K

All this happened at about the same time...

SO CAN ANYONE TELL ME FROM THE ORIGINAL Q. AT THE TOP, HOW IT MAKES ANY SENSE BUYING A CAR THAT DEPRECIATES 54% WHEN YOU CAN BUY A GT-R THAT DEPRECIATED 22% ???

I REST MY CASE ABOUT THE ORIGINAL QUESTION ABOUT VALUE-VALUE-VALUE !

Cheers, T

Edited July 24, 2008 by Terry_GT-R34

[kralster]

Dude, you really need to check your facts before you go shooting off your mouth.

Has Holden ever been banned for being too successful in racing?

In multiple countries?

No?

Nissan has been.

I'd call that racing cred...

Nissan has also produced a number of cars popular among the performance car fraternity. Perhaps you may have heard of them? Maybe even a whisper? The 180SX and 200SX (most popular drift car beside the AE86), 240(Devil)Z, 300ZX, 350Z, as well the legendary GT-R.

I like your comparison to Ferrari, Lamboghini (I assume you meant to spell Lamborghini), and Porsche. Supercars they truly are, and I love every one of them! But they also have supercar pricetags, unlike the Nissans.

However, you may wish to check the price of the new GT-R against that beloved Porsche that you mentioned above, then read the reviews on how well they compare together. Hell, Jeremy Clarkson put his neck out while fanging the new GT-R around a Japanese racetrack recently. You couldn't pay for publicity like that...

I've never understood these people who appear to love a particular brand of car, yet go posting on OTHER brand forums trying to convince everybody there that their brand sucks.

That strikes me as being just plain dumb.

You love your Holdens?

Good on you!

Go post on the Holden forums, you twit!

Well done you twat this is "General Automotive Discussion"

GM have made plenty of performance cars like that new corvette thats faster the new GT-R...

The clarkson thing i'll agree with that is good publicity but that doesn't mean he's not a fat fool who i personally find annoying.

I'm not trying to say Nissan sucks, or holden rules, just that nissan isn't god like some people seem to want to believe.

At the end of the day i don't care what brand a car is as long as i like it.

[Roy]

Dude, you really need to check your facts before you go shooting off your mouth.

Has Holden ever been banned for being too successful in racing?

In multiple countries?

No?

Nissan has been.

I'd call that racing cred...

Nissan has also produced a number of cars popular among the performance car fraternity. Perhaps you may have heard of them? Maybe even a whisper? The 180SX and 200SX (most popular drift car beside the AE86), 240(Devil)Z, 300ZX, 350Z, as well the legendary GT-R.

I like your comparison to Ferrari, Lamboghini (I assume you meant to spell Lamborghini), and Porsche. Supercars they truly are, and I love every one of them! But they also have supercar pricetags, unlike the Nissans.

However, you may wish to check the price of the new GT-R against that beloved Porsche that you mentioned above, then read the reviews on how well they compare together. Hell, Jeremy Clarkson put his neck out while fanging the new GT-R around a Japanese racetrack recently. You couldn't pay for publicity like that...

I've never understood these people who appear to love a particular brand of car, yet go posting on OTHER brand forums trying to convince everybody there that their brand sucks.

That strikes me as being just plain dumb.

You love your Holdens?

Good on you!

Go post on the Holden forums, you twit!

Im kind of with you, then you lose me If you want to make a point, its best not to use internet fan boy fodder to support an argument. Can you please show me any class of motorsport where Nissan has been banned? I dont know of one. Grp A racing died, most manufacturers looked elsewhere and new classes of Touring Car racing was created. At no point was the GTR banned!

The point you should be making is that when running Nissan were always competitive in tin top racing, have had some decent forays into Le Mans etc, and with the R32 GTR dominated the Gp A series despite having weight etc thrown at them. But they were not banned. The class of racing that they ran in died internationally and then two years later here in Aus, so it was an orphan, not an outcast.

As for the Silvias , yeh, go back to original GTR and 240Z etc. But Holden have had the 327 GTS Monaro, XU1, some interesting and very popular cars. Not saying one is better then the other, but this is the general discussion part of SAU and it doesnt kill anyone to pay credit when deserved to other manufacturers.

Holden have made a decent car in the VE, no point comparing it to VP Commodores, or i will go and say to compare a 1981 Skyline with an R33 What they have built is a car that is M5, E63, RS6 proportioned, and equally quick. Priced competitively and has an appeal for those in the hunt for such a car. No car appeals to everyone, and the fact that this doesnt appeal to you is no cause for throwing insults/dirt at those who want one. There are people that dotn want to own an Auto, rules out E63. There are those that dont want AWD, rules out the RS6. Some people dont like the HSV badge which means they will front the extra money for the M5 which is no doubt a better car. But Top Gear liked the R8 Clubbies performance and driving experience. So no reason to see why the driving experience of a W427 wont put a smile on your face

As for Clarkson pulling his neck ? LOL, is that really true? I have watched Clarkson since back in the mid 90s and he is always pulling those sorts of stunts for "dramatic' appeal

[coakman]

Ha!

How did I know that Roy would get involved in this!

Hey Guys, you seem kind of surprised. Gabbo here drops into the post through the skylight, spraying 'crappy this' and 'Nissan same shit that' everywhere and gets all upset when he gets flamed. Was your crystal ball not working when you looked into the future on this one?

General Automotive discussion area, or the DIY section for 'How to weave yourself a nice hat', statements like these are throwing down the gauntlet (especially with the 'Attitude' switch set to 'Super Stun' like in this case, so don't get all upset by the response. That was no 'peace, love, and mung beans for all things automotive' in that statement.

Hell, Kralster even stole my own insult to him (twit), changed a vowel, and threw it back at me! Despicable! A little originality, please...

Who says I was using 'internet fan boy fodder' to make my statement? Roy, have you been looking through my bedroom window while I'm on the PC again? Next time look to all the racing literature sitting on my bookshelf to the right. That's where I was quoting from.

GT-R's weren't banned? You might have a hard time pushing that one up a hill with a stick. How about if I say that the 'formula' (forced induction and all wheel drive) was banned? That legally admissable enough for you? Not acknowledging something like this is like saying that a Holden Commodore isn't a rear wheel driven car, but is actually driven by it's engine...

Oh, and my final statement...

Your momma!

Now that that's all out of the way, let's all have a group hug, an electronic beer, and toast to all the crap performance Nissans, Holdens, Fords, Toyotas, Mazdas, Hondas, etc... (not Hyundai) out there, while we click on the link below and watch the nice Mr Clarkson hurting himself...

http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=zqBBL7WYWIs

Ouch!

[baron25]

Values of cars as you know are determined by market forces including supply and demand etc.

The R33 GT-R (white colour) was purchased for about $58K and sold for $45K

The HSV GTS (dark blue) was bought for $98K and sold for $47K

All this happened at about the same time...

SO CAN ANYONE TELL ME FROM THE ORIGINAL Q. AT THE TOP, HOW IT MAKES ANY SENSE BUYING A CAR THAT DEPRECIATES 54% WHEN YOU CAN BUY A GT-R THAT DEPRECIATED 22% ???

Terry, you've neglected the fact that the GTS (for that price) would have been a NEW car, whereas the GTR would have been between 4 and 8 years old. Thus the GTR would have done the bulk of it's depreciation already, whereas like all new cars the GTS would drop like a stone.

And Roy, i'm glad someone else shares my skepticism with the neck gag. Every person i speak to swears it's real, but not many seem to question the rescue garbage truck and lawnmower. Or the "Safety car" (R33 with reflector tape) when he tests the Caparo for that matter.

[Roy]

Who says I was using 'internet fan boy fodder' to make my statement? Roy, have you been looking through my bedroom window while I'm on the PC again? Next time look to all the racing literature sitting on my bookshelf to the right. That's where I was quoting from.

GT-R's weren't banned? You might have a hard time pushing that one up a hill with a stick. How about if I say that the 'formula' (forced induction and all wheel drive) was banned? That legally admissable enough for you? Not acknowledging something like this is like saying that a Holden Commodore isn't a rear wheel driven car, but is actually driven by it's engine...

LOL, i point it out as to my understanding... The GTR was a Grp A Touring Car. It was built by Nissan, homologated by Nissan to go Grp A racing.

At seasons end 1990 the FIA killed the Group A category. Some countries went to a new formula straight away (i think, may have to check this for all the countries) , with the Poms going 2L straight away, i think the Germains hung in there for a season longer until the new formula was formed. So the Poms, Germans, French, etc etc all started their own respective series of tin top racing. Here in Australia the cars looked the same as the Grp A cars but they were strictly speaking no longer Grp A cars in 1992 and 1993. The cars were getting long in the tooth, Nissan Australia having just dominated the series had no long term goal to remain in the series, and had no intention of running the R33 as the cars development in Japan was more GT car then touring car.

So we in Australia went with a formula that would use Australias largest manufacturers, Holden and Ford. If we had of taken the same path as all the Eurpeans we would be running 2L cars or 2.5L cars, all NA, either fwd, awd or rwd. We ran them alongisde the V8s for a while and other then Cotter/Doulman, Longhurst/Morris nobody wanted to run them. Longhurst going customer Perkins cars didnt help the class. If we had of followed the Japanese we would not have had touring cars, we would have been running far more expensive GT cars.

Or we could have allowed teams to run whatever car they want, using a platform that is no longer for sale in Aus, about to go out of production in Japan, one that Nissan Australia had no intention of supporting/running for more then another season etc etc.

So i think its not being overly picky to say they were orphaned, not thrown out or banned. Its like saying they were banned from the German series because BMW and Mercedes didnt want to be racing them in 1992! Its not correct. Nissan didnt even want to run the GTR in countries other then Japan and Australia so why would managers of categories in other countries try to accomodate them? Did Nissan want to continue to run the GTR as an R33? No, Nissan Australia wanted out. Racing didnt help sell their road cars, winning on Sunday didnt sell on Monday.

It made a great story and Wheels/Motor etc eat it up courtesy of Mike Raymond and his lingo on race weekends. But simple fact it is not factual.

[typevu]

I'm not trying to say Nissan sucks, or holden rules, just that nissan isn't god like some people seem to want to believe.

Well we ARE on a Nissan Skyline forum afterall - if you go on a Holden forum I'm pretty sure they would be glorifying their Commodores too. So of course there will be some Nissan/Skyline-fanboy-ism on a Nissan/Skyline forum *cough BEST CARS EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR cough*

[GTR-N1]

Terry, you've neglected the fact that the GTS (for that price) would have been a NEW car, whereas the GTR would have been between 4 and 8 years old. Thus the GTR would have done the bulk of it's depreciation already, whereas like all new cars the GTS would drop like a stone.

And Roy, i'm glad someone else shares my skepticism with the neck gag. Every person i speak to swears it's real, but not many seem to question the rescue garbage truck and lawnmower. Or the "Safety car" (R33 with reflector tape) when he tests the Caparo for that matter.

Point taken & accepted! Ta!

It'll still be interesting then, the rate of depreciation between the R35 & the W427 perhaps?

Cheers, T