R32 Gtr Brake Upgrade Advice

[LotusGTR]

I've got an R32 gtr running about 300RWKW and currently have a standard brake set up which is not really up to the job. I've got R33 GTR rims to go on the car (forged, light, sort of original, look good, as big as you want to go to preserve the original style of the car - sorry I'm old). The car is predominantly used on the street, but for Sunday blasts or a quick drive to work when I'm in the mood. Track work will be minimal.

Ultimate stopping performance is obviously important, but peddle feel and streetability are important too. I don't want to be able to tear the skin off my face pulling up at the expense of a good feel.

I want to avoid squealing brakes too. I know this comes down to pad choice but thought I'd throw that in.

Where to from here? What does the collective wisdom suggest?

Thanks,

Nick.

[robbieraver]

how much do you want to spend, some good fluid, pads rotor and caliper prep on the standard gtr will work btter than you expect but if you have $3000-$6000 for a set of AP/brembo/alcon etc etc etc which are excellent but another ball park as in terms of feel and performance

as you said only street driven most of the time, if i were you work on what you have eg bigger rotor, pads, fluids, seals as the price of the bigger units wont offset the street performance.

having said that how nice is it having ap/brembo alcon under the wheels.

just my two cents.

[Risking]

You dont need alcons or any other big brake kit like that to pull up a street GTR. (Or mild circuit car for that matter)

Buy a decent set of slotted rotors from the RDA group buys, use a reasonable set of pads, Id recommend TRW Lucas pads but have a read of the brake pad guide at the top and make an informed decission.

Buy/have made a set of braided lines or if the budget does not stretch that far buy original rubber lines which there is nothing wrong with providing they are in good condition and not 20years old.

Use a decent Dot4 fluid and flush it through well.

If you wanted you could replace/overhaul the master cylinder but if it works fine then id be inclind to leave it.

We have a 32 GTR with decent grunt that is doing plenty of mild track work with the exact set-up mentioned above and its never had a problem stopping time and time again.

[Roy]

Grab some used R33 Brembos, nice quality rotors and some punchy pads. Fingers crossed you can sell your current gear to a Silvia owner, but you will still be looking at around 3k total

So would suggest you grab some NISMO brake ducts or similar which bolt to the castor rods, some good fluid, pads and tyres. If you are stressing that sort of brake setup then you probably shoudl be slowing down because of brake fade

Try some Castrol SRF brake fluid, i am loving the Endless CCX pads i run and just do a walk around the cars current brakes. Check caliper pistons move freely and rotor condition. Binding pistons cause pad drag on the rotor which all throws heat into the brakes

If you find your calipers are in need of a strip and rebuild, the rotors are shagged, then its time you look at the dollars you have to spend because you may be able to justify a slightly bigger spend for a nice 4 pot upgrade using an AP, Alcon or Brembo caliper with a 332mm rotor. So what is the budget? I love spending peoples money on brakes

[Mr. Keets]

Nick, I've been in the same boat and while I save for some bigger brakes I've made the following changes which really help last time out at AHG.

Master cylinder stopper-I bought a Nismo brace with one integrated but you can fashion your own or Cusco make a bolt on one. Stops firewall flex

Braided lines-GB deal worked out really well at a good price

Pads- I tried some Hawk HP+...More rotor wear and noise but the R stopped really well. Probably too aggressive for the street.

Fresh brake fluid

[madevo3]

buy some g4 brakes for it they are fairly cheap fpr what they are as well just jap sell them. they are a sweet looking brake disc as well can get different sizes of rotor and they work excellent

[justingtsr]

good brake fluid and pads will make a difference for a street car. I would stay away from rda's as i have had them crack and seen them crack on track cars but may be ok for the street.

[LotusGTR]

Sorry if I'm not replying properly here, but thanks to all for your advice. Sounds like I might be best investigating some relatively low investmwent options on the current set up first. I guess brake lines and boosters etc can be carried over to new systems as and when required, so might be a good place to start. Then, caliper rebuilds / new rotors / pads etc needs to be balanced out against the cost of upgrading. You don't really want to spend twice. I guess this allows me not to make the outlay for the R33 GTR rims and tyres. I've got 2 sets of R32 with track tyres so might be best finishing them off before upgrading.

I have a feeling that I'll always be hankering after 'big' brake set up just because 'you can' and it's kinda cool.

I guess I'll check out the $$$$ factor for what you get in terms of perofmance and the 'cool' factor.

Thanks again to all.

Nick.

[LotusGTR]

Some other thoughts, any comments advice on the following would be appreciated:

How brake upgrades integrate with the ABS system (does the 4wd system work off ABS too? Sensing wheels spin etc?)

Cross drilled rotors. I hear a bit about them developing hairline cracks, but they look so cool + hi-end Euro sports cars generally have them so I guess they can be made to work?

How do you establish if rotor / calipers fit certain rims? This forum?

Brake bias issues. Any basic rules to observe to avoid errors

Brake boosters and lines and the relationship they have with pedal feel

Yours still in total ignorance......

[djr81]

How brake upgrades integrate with the ABS system (does the 4wd system work off ABS too? Sensing wheels spin etc?)

As long as the piston area of the new calipers is similar to those of your current set up the ABS will cope. The 4wd system doesn't care.

Cross drilled rotors. I hear a bit about them developing hairline cracks, but they look so cool + hi-end Euro sports cars generally have them so I guess they can be made to work?

If you use your car on the track (Properly) chances are you will crack the discs at some stage. Best bet is to select rotors to avoid this problem as much as possible. If you don't then there is no point spending large on brakes.

How do you establish if rotor / calipers fit certain rims? This forum?

Look for the thread on this very issue and get busy with the paper & scissors.

Brake bias issues. Any basic rules to observe to avoid errors

Ask questions of the vendor. Then you will get the usual blandishments that are completely meaningless. They all say they work beautifully but recommend all sorts of different rotor diameters & piston areas. Make of that what you will.

Brake boosters and lines and the relationship they have with pedal feel

The booster uses vacuum to reduce pedal effort. By lines I assume you mean braided hoses. These swell less when you brake hard than old rubber alternatives hence less pedal travel is wasted.

[Ronin 09]

i recommend many hours of reading in this section of the forums.

you'll find out quickly which are your key knowledge members.

[LotusGTR]

OK. Thank you all for your further advice. Having shopped this around a little I think given the likely usage a 'big' brake upgrade will not be what I'm after. I think I'll do some braided lines, sort the squeal out from the DS2500 pads I've got (if I can). Phase II could be Brembos from and R33 V spec. My thinking is that they should not represent a massive departure from std R32 and should therefore be relatively straightforward to retro fit, though I've read bolt pitch is 1.5, not 1.25.....I wonder what other hidden snags there may be.....

Can anyone adivse on the R33 Brembo logic. If it is the (a) right way to go, what size rotor would be required and can they be squeezed under stock R32 rims (I doubt it). I'd hope they are streetable.

Further thoughts and comments?

Thanks again.

[Roy]

DS2500s...throw them to the shitter. Some like them, but the more i read of people running them and wanting a further drake upgrade hints to me that i am not alone in my thinking they are really a crap pad, no better then the cheaper RB74s etc etc.

For pedal feel, bite and retardation then a good pad will get you out of trouble 9 times out of 10. Used with good fluid like Castrol SRF or Motul RBF, and you will be happy with the improvement. From there i would hold off on braided lines, personally i didnt notice any real improvement going to them , which could have meant my std ones were ok in the first place, or i am not very astute at picking small improvements after mods. But main reason i would hold off on them is they wont be a factor that makes or brakes the tweaking of your current setup, and if you find the std brakes with pads and the std ducts etc installed still a little under done then the bigger calipers/rotors will need new lines anyway...so wont be fronting for two sets of lines

As long as you buy the Brembo GTR calipers with the bolts its a pretty easy upgrade, you need to cut off the dust shields and that is about it. If you are anal you can re-drill the brake line mount so it fits the R32 hub position (5min job if you are not too lazy to go and grab the drill. ) As far as upgrades go it is an easy one, and about two hours per corner to perform.

[Ronin 09]

I agree with Roy on grabbing some Endless CCX pads - the ones he's using were in my car before I upgraded.

Note tht if you go to R33 Brembos (note all R33s have the same brakes, not just v-spec has brembos) you'll probably need to go to a 17" unless it's a big 16 like TEs or alike.

[LotusGTR]

Thanks Ronin and Roy (and everyone). It's amazing how far out your first best guess can be. Think I might take my time with this. I'll try new pads and see how I go from there.

I have 2 sets of R32 GTR 16 x 8s, one set with track tyres and the other with road, both with a fair bit left. If a wheel upgrade is required (which I thought it would be) for the Brembos and the larger rotors I think I might sit tight with the current set up until the tyres run out of life. Q - with 17 x 9 R33 GTR rims or 17 x 9 V Spec R32 BBSs, what size rotor would be the max the rims and calipers could take. Any advice on where to buy rotors? OEM Nissan from RHD Japan? DBA?

That being the case, my next question is how much do rotors make a difference to overall brake performance? I'm runing some unknown replacement disc for the original cross drilled numbers. Will investing in DBA 4000 / 5000 slotted rotors make a noticeable difference to pedal, bite, feel, heat disipation etc etc. Or is that potentially an expensive wast of time?

Nick.

[djr81]

Thanks Ronin and Roy (and everyone). It's amazing how far out your first best guess can be. Think I might take my time with this. I'll try new pads and see how I go from there.

I have 2 sets of R32 GTR 16 x 8s, one set with track tyres and the other with road, both with a fair bit left. If a wheel upgrade is required (which I thought it would be) for the Brembos and the larger rotors I think I might sit tight with the current set up until the tyres run out of life. Q - with 17 x 9 R33 GTR rims or 17 x 9 V Spec R32 BBSs, what size rotor would be the max the rims and calipers could take. Any advice on where to buy rotors? OEM Nissan from RHD Japan? DBA?

Measure the inside diameter of the rim - that will give you an indication of clearance - then check for spoke to calliper clearance. How big a brake set up you can run depends on the rim, the rotor & the calliper so it is not an easy question to answer.

Obviously the BBS rims will clear the Brembo stuff fitted to the V-Spec 32's with a 324 rotor.

That being the case, my next question is how much do rotors make a difference to overall brake performance? I'm runing some unknown replacement disc for the original cross drilled numbers. Will investing in DBA 4000 / 5000 slotted rotors make a noticeable difference to pedal, bite, feel, heat disipation etc etc. Or is that potentially an expensive wast of time?

DBA4000 series rotors are nothing special, other than the fact they have a whole thread dedicated to them. It is a good read....

DBA do not make 5000 series rotors for R32's, you will have to import something if you want aluminium hats.

Heat dissipation is reliant on the amount of air pumped through the rotor. Designed just using pillars move less air than those with proper vanes. The more vanes the more air is moved, but the heavier the rotor ends up. Slots help a little with pedal feel when you are trying hard as they help de gas the pad.

Make sure your rotors are of sufficient thickness, not gouged or warped & then just use them till they die.

As was first said get yourself a brace for the master cylinder, maybe some braided lines for the fron callipers, some good fluid & some pads. The brakes will feel alot better for it. Oh and make sure they are bled properly.

[Ronin 09]

just adding to djr's post -

try and stay away from the drilled rotors - they are more likely to crack and fail. Some of the OE rotors that are drilled are cast that way - which will reduce the grain issues and likelihood of stress concentrations where a cast rotor is later drilled.

also, while having more vanes may make the rotor heavier, remember that all you're doing with brakes is converting kinetic energy to heat energy. The larger the rotor (ie more mass to it), the more heat capacity it has before fade sets in. Secondly, the faster you can get the heat out of the rotor into the surrounding air, the longer the brakes stay good. this is why you see the complex brake ducting to the the rotors on race cars - all about getting the most heat out of the max size rotors allowed for the class of racing.

as an example, the calipers I have are an enduro-type caliper, that takes a 36mm rotor. They are super heavy (even with an alloy bell/hat) but should allow heaps of heat capacity.

[phunky_monkey]

How do you find the Enduro calipers? Are rotors/pads hard to get? Or do you use a spacer for the pads?

Cheers

Dane

[Ronin 09]

hi dane

rotors were hideously expensive - 355x36 AP rotors. If we went with 32-34mm rotors this would have been the old V8 supercar size which was cheap as chips (relatively)

Pads are actually standard CP5555 size DS2500s - I would prefer to swap for a set of Endless CCX if they come in that size though - I find the DS2500 provides pretty ordinary feedback comparatively.

the caliper is spaced with a plate from AP - though I believe that RaceBrakes can do this here.

cheers

[phunky_monkey]

Ahhhh nice one, thanks for the info. I was contemplating a set myself, but am worried it's going to be massively expensive to maintain, and a pain to fit.

Sorry to get off topic a little Nick