Skyline R33 Gts-t Hks Gt2835 Pro S Vs Sti

[Lithium]

Probably between 105-109mph for the boltons ones.

[Thelen]

220fwkw prelude beating a 330awkw GTR around a track.... that is GOLD!

if you wanna lie, keep them small so that people might actually believe it... rolleyes.gif

Whatever mate, a pro driving a 220fwkw will decimate some rich idiot with a GTR, I don't know why you have such trouble. Sure, dollar for dollar, the GTR 'should' win, but you really do have to see to believe. There are all of 3 turbo 91 preludes in AUS, that have been done reasonably well anyway, so it isn't like there is a lot of data to go on...

I have been around here for a while, so hopefully people know that I'm not that stupid or full of shxt so will put my neck out.

There are always ways the above can happen - depends on a variety of variables. My flatmates NON-Type R Integra (RIP little track weapon sad.gif ) used to frequently deal to a lot of much more powerful cars, often due to driver experience, the Integra being easier to drive, the GTRs/other cars being under tyred/braked, the drivers not wanting to thrash the crap out of it, and of course the fact that light Hondas can stop and turn really really well when they have decent tyres and brakes on them.

That thing with 120-130wkw seriously dealt to 300+kw GTRs on a few occasions ON THE TRACK, higher corner exit speeds etc count for so much. The car ran 14flat 1/4miles, so no rocket ship... but was competitive as a track car. Anyone seen the first American Touge video when an NA Civic showed up and dominated the field?

Heh, replied to him before reading your post, but yes you are totally right. 300KG makes a lot of difference on the track, it really does make higher speed corning possible. Among the other factors, and actually now I think about it, GTR at Bathurst were often far less powerful than the other cars, but they handled so much better. So its the same as 350KW GTR beating a 450KW BMW etc

Why is it most people with hondas think ther cars can drag off any other turbo car on the street? esp the ones that own integras....

If a turbo prelude was really that great then why arent there hundreds of them around? why doesnt anyone race them professionally? because there crap compared to GTRs

And to Turbz who started the post... just get good sticky compound tyres and some good tuned in suspension and if your not confident off the drag strip then race that STI from a rolling start...like somone above suggested...60-140 should resolve it

Probably because a decent turbo prelude costs about twice as much as a GTR with some reasonable mods. A 2L I4 is ALWAYS going to cost a shit load more to make power compared to a beastly 2.6L I6 with most of the car being built for higher power upgrades. I ain't saying ANY honda with 220kw will beat a GTR btw, so I hear you regarding those integra ricers.

[FEARNOV8]

i know this is late but i thought id add my 2 cents.. its very possible to be beaten by a honda because of power to weight ratio. So thelan can be telling the truth..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfGZyB4Dl-k and we all know how fast supras are..discopotato amen to that mate when ppl realise that there will always be a car out there faster than urs then u will be satisied with the power u making

Edited June 18, 2010 by FEARNOV8

[FEARNOV8]

oh yea and because i work for subaru and used to own one awd cars are good but u always find them giving trouble with diffs and seals only problem with awd cars

[discopotato03]

I think from a practical viewpoint you have to ask yourself what you truly want/expect from your car .

Manufacturers build - er construct cars to be reasonable all rounders because that's what the mass market wants - has been conned into wanting .

Have you noticed these days advertising fro new cars , 16 drivers hand bags/15 zone AC/no car sound/IRS ABS ASC and for the backseaters a HMV TV .

I keep asking what about the car ? Does it stop steer handle and motivate well enough . So many don't .

I have three cars now , the old 86 Subie RX Turbo , the 96 S2 GTS25T , and now the 99 Evo 6 GSR .

They are all very different and all shine in their own unique ways .

The Zoob owes me a WRX and was an interesting if expensive toe in the water with AWD , it started out FrWD/selectable RWD with no center diff and I had an expensive hybrid (close ratio/lockable center diff/short low range gears) box fitted . SK said that having AWD doesn't make a car with woeful steering/suspension geometry handle well and you can take that one to the grave . It didn't stop the handle scratching body roll and we're going to die chronic understeer you get from lethal positive camber and shudders negative caster .

With Gary's advise I went down the road of considerably larger anti roll bars firmer rear springs and as much front caster as it was possible to get from spacing the front control arms forward on the compression struts (radius rods) .

Night and day difference , goes round corners as well if not better that a lot of much later than 1986 build cars do .

The car is light at 1070 Kg so with what most of you people consider very low power feels quite good - to me anyway .

It will NEVER hold a candle to say an MY2000 WRX but a lot of the value was the learning exercise , the down side is I get to sell it for a very small fraction of what it owes me .

The R33 , it was a clean 80K (mileage) car when I bought it and had the 8.5" Nismo LMGT4 wheels and the SK Bilstein Whiteline suspension fitted already . I've done the head/cams/PFC/R34 SMIC so the money I've spent has not been mega I suppose , sort of the basis for more power mods it may never get .

This car has not been on a dyno yet and I suppose with its std ceramic turbo may make 200 Kw , don't know .

It drives nicely and is roomier than the RX or the Lancer , would ultimately be the better open road car of the three .

Still could do with an RB30 and taller gearing - all money of course .

Now to the Lancer , IMO to drive it round the burbs Camry style its just like any other late 90s Japanese 2L car except it rides more firmly and there's a fighter plane in the rear view mirror . You start out thinking so what , is it just a gimmick ?

First you suss out the usual brakes/steering/controls and then start to drive a bit more spiritedly , steering is very fast and sharp and the Brembo brakes make you think you can stop the planet . I never hammer a car until I know what its like driven normally and ease things up over time in safe instances , driven hard the Evo feels like it'll eat whatever you throw at it and its very easy to think it knows no limits . What it tells me is that it has higher limits than most cars but driven beyond its or the drivers limits the off is going to be a monumental one .

My 6 is unusual because it is completely factory standard so gives a good indication of what manufacturers can do when they try hard enough .

Horses for courses , the Skyline GTR was developed to be a tarmac winner in the narrow focus of FIA Group A which is why it had the odd 2568cc engine size to suit the class weight that Nissan wanted to run them in .

The Evo 6 was also a homologation special aimed at Group A Rallying and did what Mitsy wanted , kept winning the class at international level .

A good friend of mine has always said that rally based cars make better road cars than road race oriented ones because the power they make has to start early and have a really beefy mid range . The rally classes mandated turbo restrictors to try and make a level playing field . It very quickly forced the rally teams to develop engines that made a lot of torque starting very early a tapering off at the limit of the restrictors . Anti Lag Systems was a part of it but that was really was aimed at spooling the turbo off the line and not losing turbine revs between gears - it does when you're up it .

These engines had to make brutal torque with not a lot of revs to be competitive and guess what , road cars work best with lots of torque in the low and mid range . You don't have to pull telephone number revs to make them go which makes them easy to drive and you'd reckon more predictably on the limit . Mitsy did it with split pulse manifolds and twin scroll turbochargers and larger A/R turbine housings than their single scroll cousins . Subaru mostly stayed single scroll and had to rely on the ALS to pull the bottom end up .

The Evos have been through a lot of revisions (2-10) so there was ample opportunity to change things along the way to steadily improve the package - to evolve . I hear Nissan was financially doing badly in the GTR era and while they went through three body revisions the mechanical package didn't change markedly . Also the death of turbocharged tarmac racing left them with nowhere to go in competition - no justifiable development budget .

I wouldn't say std Evo's are a drag weapon but then again what production car is , GTRs and Rexs were certainly never designed to be either .

Now power wise , R32 GTR was advertised as having 209Kw where the Evo 6 was 206 , in GSR trim you're looking at 1360 Kg vs I think 1480 for the 32GTR . If you started with an RS Evo 6 it'd be 1260 Kg vs ~1480 .

Mass and how its distributed is very important in a high performance car , you have to be able to accelerate and slow it and from time to time make it change direction . The Lancer is going to be using the same sized wheels/tyres/brakes as a GTR and has ~ 200 Kg less to do everything with .

They can both put all their weight in to traction but the GTR isn't doing it all the time because the designers wanted GTRs to have RWD handling characteristics .

Now you can modify both though we all know that working engine wise on a GTR is painful , by comparison doing a manifold turbo and exhaust to an Evo is easy . Flash tune the existing computer and most would be happy with the 250-260 torquey available Kw they can develop . May need larger fall in injectors there .

True you won't find it easy to match a 2.5+L turbo RB but you're not carrying around their bulk and weight either .

This is why I keep telling people to look closer at the Nms than the Kw numbers . A good AWD car can put big torque to the ground far better than a 2WD one but there is always a weight penalty . The RWD won't do it as well initially so they have to rely on having more power after the wheel spin stops to have enough legs to get in front .

If I had my way the production drag racing world would be very different and actually impose speed limits . That way it would focus on exploding off the line and would force people to concentrate on the most difficult phase of the runs . It may even go part way to preventing people driving at ballistic speeds on public roads and wiping others out .

Maybe turbo restrictors , Group A WRXs and EVO Lancers used them as did ALL the Group A GTRs that were raced here in Australia . I believe they did more good than bad because they forced people to concentrate on developing torque which is whats its really all about . Killer torque with high tractive effort and the means to make it change direction and stop .

I thought long and hard about MY2000 GC8's but the suspension upgrades , more money , to make it happen didn't appeal to me . The gearbox debacle , don't know what you do there .

My older RX L Series Zoob also has a flat four and having been inside one don't really want to go there again .

Mongrel split cased aluminium thing that sits too far forward in the body to have good weight distribution .

Hate the left handed firing order and the effort to make them twin scroll not worth it IMO .

GC8 is smaller and lighter than a 99 Lancer but Mitsy went to a bit more effort to make the package a better thing than Subaru did IMO . I was never going to buy a GC8 STi and have never been in one but I know people who did and got the nothing under 4000 etc spiel . Just me but I couldn't warm to Impreza styling and the post 2000 ones look god awful to me .

Ultimately bang for buck is important and trying to get as close as possible to what you want factory standard is important . Having a reasonably easy upgrade path if you must modify it makes economic sense because more of what you earn stays in your pocket .

If you could have it for sixteen grand with 12 months rego would you do it ?

A .

[PM-R33]

My god! Talk about writing a novel lol.

[manuel]

R33 gtst has edge over 2007 wrx sti

I had a recent street run with a 2.5l 2007 Wrx sti and hit speeds in excess of 200klms hour.( not safe but couldnt back down)

I cannot confirm what mods the sti had apart from exhaust and front mount but i can confirm that my gtst r33 has 254kw atw with gcg high flow turbo. The run was from 70lkms to about 200klms/h and i can confirm that i had the sti by a car length. It wasnt a proper run from the lights but we still gave it a good go and he couldnt pass me.

There are guys on this forum who have run 12.3s down quarter on semi slicks with 255kw atw on r33 gtst. So with full slicks this will drop into 11s easy.

I prefer my skyline over a wrx anyday of the week. In my opinion a true performance race car is rear wheel drive ( formula 1, nascar, v8 supercar, indy car) and nothing beats sitting the skyline on the spot and smoking the rears, and there is no better feeling than getting the bitch side ways. Rev dump your rexxy and you can pull over and pick up your gearbox. Rexys belong off road in rally and even then i prefer an evo. On the road and in drag racing enviroment, skyline is my only choice.

I

[Kinks]

hit speeds in excess of 200klms hour.( not safe but couldnt back down)

aww what's wrong... ego got in the way?

you're a world class tool.

[manuel]

aww what's wrong... ego got in the way?

you're a world class tool.

We had a run the m4 motor way at about 1pm in the morning, no cars on the road except us so the risk was calculated, wouldnt have done it if other people where on the road at the time.

Any way if you can honestly say that you have not exceded the speed limit or had a street run in your life then you can cast the first stone and i will gladly accept your criticism.

keep your "world class tool' comments to your self, we are not in pre school c..k s..ckr.

[ARTZ]

People all seem to forget what the GT stands for...Grand touring...its a tourer not a rally bred buzz box, you sit back relaxed in a line not upright and tight like an evo or suby...its almost like comparing a harley to a jap bike...they are two different machines with there own style

This argument about which is better is complete rubbish ,as every car will have its good and bad points...And at the end of the day they all get you to the same place in about the same amount of time... you buy or build the car that suits your style and the places you drive...Whatever that may be...And drive it the way you like...

As far as Im concerned subarus are great for people who cant drive nissans...

[GTScotT]

you're a world class tool.

World class?! Championship material hey, none of this third world spanner business. Dirty Brown Stuff.

On behalf of manuel I would like to thank you for your compliment. Hooraa.

[discopotato03]

Yep , I agree with Arthur about Skylines being open road GT cars .

As soon as the surface conditions get slippery and or the road tight twisty windy my moneys on the Lancer , I haven't been in a hard worked Rex but I know beyond the shaddow of a doubt that I can do things in the Evo that my R33 couldn't hope to .

A .

[lotsalag]

an 11 with 190awkw!! hahahahahaa

we had an evo 5 do an 11.9 with 240awkw on full street tyres, and he can drive, awesome 60ft etc

dont wanna go off on a tangeant

thats all i got to say

[stiffler]

just buy a gtr and do urself a favor

[stiffler]

ive seen wrxs with 190awkw and these guys were doing shit times like 14's but 1 guy with 170-180 did a 13.2 and he could drive ( better then the others at least)

[Harey]

an 11 with 190awkw!! hahahahahaa

we had an evo 5 do an 11.9 with 240awkw on full street tyres, and he can drive, awesome 60ft etc

dont wanna go off on a tangeant

thats all i got to say

Exactly right! +1

[Granthem]

whats does the STI do 0 to 100 in?

i can do 0 to 100 in 4.8 in my gtst with 190rwkw

I see you and raise you 4.2 seconds 0-100....

all be it with 65rwkw more power