The Goods On Oils

[SiR_RB]

the guys name is Anthony, thats his mob number posted ^^

i asked every when i should drain my oil, every 5000kms ? he laughed, and said minium(!) 10,000kms, apparently the oil continues to work and lubricate and not break down in viscosity like other oils...

ps. brother inlaw was running the same neo oil in his 98 series 3 r33 gtr and noticed engine oil temp was lower when pushing the car, engine ran smoother/cleaner and more willing to rev

Edited March 10, 2010 by SiR_RB

[Jez13]

ok so we have an understanding that full synthetics (real ones) are the best oil for rb's. but what viscosity should the oil be and is there a difference for rb20,25 and 26. i.e. rb25 = 10x40, rb26 = 15x50. I am just very curious to know why nismo and hks use those oil viscosities on rb26's. What are their reasons behind it?

[Birds]

I thought that oil is meant to be brown when it comes out as evidence that it's cleaning the engine.

This is correct. If your oil comes out looking like it was when you put it in 5000km ago, then it's NOT a good oil. Oil is meant to primarily lubricate an engine, and secondarily clean it. If you drain an oil after a few thousand km and it is black this does not necessarily mean the oil has broken down, more likely that it is doing a good job of cleaning your engine and keeping the sooty crap inside the oil instead of jammed between moving parts. Did you know that one of the best ways to get dirty grease off your hands is with vaseline, another grease?

http://www.gulfwestern.com.au/Sougi%20S%206000.html

Thanks to Birds I'm converted. After 3000k's the oil still looks good and could well be the best $80 for 5 litres I ever spent.

You're welcome mate, hope she does well for you. Being a TRUE fully synthetic ester oil you can stretch service intervals out until 10,000km without doing harm but I change at 5,000km anyway because I'm OCD about having fresh oil.

I live on the Gold Coast where can I get this from Autobarn, Cheaper Autos wherever ? don't recall seeing Gulf Western anywhere-- mind you I wasn't looking --

If you can't find it anywhere up there, give me a yell and I'll post some up to you. I'm a Gulf Western distributor but I sell Sougi at close to cost price for enthusiasts because I'm a good guy and I write it off as a marketing exercise lol. Don't gauge it by the cheapo mineral 20w50 that Autobarn like to loss lead for $10 a bottle - that stuff is designed for running in engines / oil flushing and servvicing pre-90's shitheaps that burn through oil, just like every other 20w50 mineral on the market.

[Birds]

ok so we have an understanding that full synthetics (real ones) are the best oil for rb's. but what viscosity should the oil be and is there a difference for rb20,25 and 26. i.e. rb25 = 10x40, rb26 = 15x50. I am just very curious to know why nismo and hks use those oil viscosities on rb26's. What are their reasons behind it?

Ok well there's no easy answer for this, and since you asked for the reasons I'll give you the tl;dr on it:

There is such a thing as an oil being "too" thin. What is needed is a balance between thin and thick. Sort of like body armour, there is always going to be a compromise between protection and movement. You want an oil thin enough that it will easily flow around the engine and pass between tight moving parts, yet thick enough to prevent these surfaces from creating too much fricton between each other. Thinnest is not always better - if it were the case, we could get away with putting water / baby oil in our crank cases. Much like using paper to stop a bullet. At the same time thicker is not always better - engines with very tight tolerances (such as many modern engines) call for low viscosity oils because there is very little space for the oil to lubricate between the moving parts. I have seen 15w40 put in an engine that calls for 0w20 and it destroyed the engine over a few thousand km, not to mention how noisy the engine was. I'll add a note here: it is safer to put a thin oil in an engine that needs a thick oil, than to put a thick oil in an engine that needs a thin one. The short term worst case scenario for the former is the engine will burn alot of oil, but atleast it's getting in there between the moving parts unlike the latter.

The hotter the climate, the thinner an oil will be on fresh startup - conversely, the colder the temperature, the thicker an oil will be on fresh startup. This is why low viscosity oils such as 5w30 and 0w40 are useful in very cold climates such as snow and ice - their winter weight viscosities prevent the oil from thickening up too much in the cold. In Australia we rarely see these climates, so not only is 0 or 5 winter weight of little benefit to the average engine in Australia...it can be bad when an oil is simply too thin to provide the engine with good protection on startup it suffers most wear (also on engine shut down). This is why taxis get so much mileage to an engine because the engine is rarely stopped.

User manuals, particularly those for cars made overseas are next to useless - Japan sees much colder climates than we do. Also, brand new engines have tighter tolerances by nature. These tolerances wear out over time and there is a point where you need to move onto a thicker oil than specified by the manufacturer. I recommend a 10w viscosity minimum, in the average Australian climate, for your typical RB engine. The second viscosity index...well that's debatable. I find 40 to be most suitable because these engines are not large displacement...even with all the power we have, off boost it is still just a 2/2.5/2.6 litre engine. If your engine is producing bucketloads of power or being used in racing applications, then it is obviously going to run alot hotter than a daily driver stocker and therefore require a thicker viscosity oil to prevent the oil becoming too thin under high temperatures. This is probably what HKS and Nismo's 50 weight recommendation is based on - they are, afterall, performance companies dealing with hard driven engines. I say any fully synthetic 10w40 will be ideal for your daily driven and occasionally thrashed RB engine - but by all means experiment with a couple of different viscosities and see what works best for you...you're not going to kill your engine as long as you change the oil regularly. On that note I've switched people from 50 to 40 and they've reported better engine response, smoother rev range etc. The 10w40 I use at the moment is one designed specifically for drift and performance Jap cars.

[Jez13]

Thanks heaps birds. Makes sense now. The motul I am using seems to be fine at the moment, but I will look into your oil for the next application. Should be in autobarn, right?

[Birds]

No worries champ. Oil can be a confusing thing, I find myself having to relearn the viscosity theory every 6 months or so and I sell it for a living!

Any of the mainstream or specialist brand 10w40 fully synthetic will suit you well IMO, and Motul is some of the best stuff out there. That said, I have converted a couple of people from Motul because the oil I've given them has been just as good but for nearly half the price. You probably won't find my oil on the shelves in autobarn because it's a specialist product and as far as I know Gulf Western only marketed it to a few racing gear shops. I really wish they'd put more effort into marketing it because I feel it's a pretty underrated product. But any shop that stocks GW should be able to order it in for you. If not, contact me and I'll get some out to you if want to give it a try. Other than that, you can't go wrong with Motul products.

[BASHO]

I have to say Autobarn aint GWs best mate, I enquired at a local Autobarmy and nearly got my ears burned about the not quality of GW oil, did turn out that the burner had no first hand aquaintance with Sougi , it was enough to put me off on the day though.

Hey Birds what's the best price you can go to ship me 5lt Sougi 10x40 to QLD 4212 ?

Edited March 12, 2010 by BASHO

[Birds]

Ahhh good old Autobarn staff...I'd love to know what evidence he backed those claims up with. I'm sure the GW oil that gets used in 5000hp top fuelers and multi-million dollar mining/agricultural equipment is shithouse too

But enough preaching on GW, simple fact: I use the stuff in my car and it's still going very strong. In the end all you can ever do with oils is give them a shot and see what works for you and what doesn't. $65 plus postage mate...it might be worth asking your local AutoPro if they can get it for you so you can save on postage. From memory a guy in Perth got hold of some through his local outlet for $80.

[RB25PWR]

Argh this thread has just done my head in more. There seems to be no consistency with the answers. I know there's not 1 answer to the question "Which oil to put in my R33 GTS-T" but what's a decently priced oil for my car? Around the $70 dollar mark?

edit: She's stock apart from cat back. -- I'm thinking Motul 4100 Turbolight Engine Oil -- will this be OK?

Edited March 14, 2010 by RB25PWR

[toddlls]

what helped me choose was everytime I searched Nissan or Nismo racing there was only 1 oil stickered on every Nissan from the Factory-Motul, Then I checked out what Bob-The Oil Guy had to say about what weights to be used where(which climate conditions required what)

Ended up with 8100 5w40(live on Gold Coast), hope that helps

[RB25PWR]

Yeah I'm gonna go Motul, just gotta choose one now. I live in Syd, it gets hot here, but not as hot as the gold coast I guess... and we're coming into Autumn now, it's pretty cool around here right now. So in a cold climate, what oil are you supposed to use? thicker or thinner? Again, I'm a bit confused.

[Buraz]

If you want to go for Motul around that price, 8100 5w40 is the go as mentioned in previous post its very good oil and better than 4100 Turbolight. If your car is pretty much stock and you dont trash the crap out of it every chance you get then 5w40 is pretty much spot on.

[pipster11]

Yeah I'm gonna go Motul, just gotta choose one now. I live in Syd, it gets hot here, but not as hot as the gold coast I guess... and we're coming into Autumn now, it's pretty cool around here right now. So in a cold climate, what oil are you supposed to use? thicker or thinner? Again, I'm a bit confused.

i recon the sougi s6000 from gulf western sounds the go tbh

winter oil for neo's is prob 0w30 or 0w40

for normal 25's i would say 10w40 (maybe 10w30 if its still a tight motor)

[BeEnAr]

the thing with Nissan and Nismo racing is, they are partnered (sponsored) by Motul so of course they are going to be touting the stuff, not like they are going to "sticker" the car with another brand now are they? Just because it says Motul on the label doesn't automatically make it a better oil, look at their 4100, in the scheme of things it's a pretty average oil compared to the same price stuff from another company, it's a semi synth and not even comparable to their 300v.

If Nismo where sponsored by Mobil or Shell then no doubt most people wouldn't have an issue running Mobil 1 or Shell Helix Ultra, hell the Helix Ultra is even used by the Ferarri F1 team so that should be more than good enough for a road or track driven Skyline of any breed... If you believe the marketing etc.

Lambo use Agip Oil at their factory, I saw them pumping it out of drums into Gallardo's and Murciellago's on Mega Factories but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the be all and end all of oils.

What Birds says is right, find an oil that suits your car and you and you'll be fine.

I've used Motul 4100, 8100 and 300v and didn't notice a difference between the 8100 and 300v but from the 4100 it was a massive difference, I have also used Helix Ultra, ELF, Castrol Edge and currently using Mobil 1 that I got for $35 for 5L and the Mobil is doing fine, as did all the others. I used 5w30, 10w40, 5w50, 10w50, 15w40, 15w50 and the only noticeable difference is the thinner oils give you slightly better fuel economy.

My Oil goes in the clean honey colour and comes out black as black but doesn't smell burnt and I don't lose pressure or oil and it gets changed out at about 10,000km intervals, sometimes more sometimes less. Haven't done a filter change in the last 2 though cos I can't get the bastard off! Really need to do that *note to self*

[RB25PWR]

I've decided on the 8100. Repco's price was $76, another workshop near me just quoted me $49. I'll ring some other places tomorrow. I'll need to grab a standard Nissan filter too.

[BASHO]

Ahhh good old Autobarn staff...I'd love to know what evidence he backed those claims up with. I'm sure the GW oil that gets used in 5000hp top fuelers and multi-million dollar mining/agricultural equipment is shithouse too

But enough preaching on GW, simple fact: I use the stuff in my car and it's still going very strong. In the end all you can ever do with oils is give them a shot and see what works for you and what doesn't. $65 plus postage mate...it might be worth asking your local AutoPro if they can get it for you so you can save on postage. From memory a guy in Perth got hold of some through his local outlet for $80.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad, I went into the local Supersleep to chase up Sougi , not got , but wait, could get --HORRAY-- I thought, as long as I bought a case, 4x5lt or 6x5lt ?- errr dunno and another forget it hits the bat , didn't even start to ask the cost.

Tell me, do you want a rep for the Gold Coast ??

[BeEnAr]

^^^ I have no idea what you just said lol! It's a forum dude, not a text message, you can write full sentences

[Birds]

Yeah I'm gonna go Motul, just gotta choose one now. I live in Syd, it gets hot here, but not as hot as the gold coast I guess... and we're coming into Autumn now, it's pretty cool around here right now. So in a cold climate, what oil are you supposed to use? thicker or thinner? Again, I'm a bit confused.

Read my last few posts in this thread mate, it should answer most of your questions relating to appropriate grades in climates.

the thing with Nissan and Nismo racing is, they are partnered (sponsored) by Motul so of course they are going to be touting the stuff, not like they are going to "sticker" the car with another brand now are they? Just because it says Motul on the label doesn't automatically make it a better oil, look at their 4100, in the scheme of things it's a pretty average oil compared to the same price stuff from another company, it's a semi synth and not even comparable to their 300v.

Correct. Most (read: almost all) manufacturers have factory supply deals with oil companies. Part of the supply contract is that the oil is recommended in the user manual or a sticker placed on the engine/car and signage in the servicing workshops at dealers. Isuzu have Fuchs, Nissan have Motul. Alot actually rebrand the oil as their own. Motul have some great products but your Nissan won't suffer any worse using another brand of oil. And I don't think you have to worry about warranty! Truth is, all the flagship oils in most of the mainstream companies all perform much the same - so just go with whichever one feels psychologically better lol - often there's a correlation between these "good choice" endorphins and the amount of money you spent on the oil! As BeEnAr here said, he has tried most of them and reported much the same results from all of them - I've never seen a useful oil lab test myself. They analyse the hell out of each brand, testing for this and that, but the real test is 5000km in your own engine because they are all different from factory and we all drive them differently, along different roads, in different climates, for different amounts of times and different purposes...so don't feel guilty for using a different oil to someone else!

It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad, I went into the local Supersleep to chase up Sougi , not got , but wait, could get --HORRAY-- I thought, as long as I bought a case, 4x5lt or 6x5lt ?- errr dunno and another forget it hits the bat , didn't even start to ask the cost.

Tell me, do you want a rep for the Gold Coast ??

LOL yer it's 4x5 litre bottles per carton from memory. You think that's bad, try buying 6 x 205 litre drums and see how that plays with your cash flow

Call GW mate they might give you a job up there lol! Much bigger up there than in Victoria.

[Alister]

I'm loving the 5w-30 Genuine Nissan oil I put in our J31. Big improvement over the cheap stuff the dealership we purchased it from used in it.

[FurryBarry]

If you can't find it anywhere up there, give me a yell and I'll post some up to you. I'm a Gulf Western distributor but I sell Sougi at close to cost price for enthusiasts because I'm a good guy and I write it off as a marketing exercise lol. Don't gauge it by the cheapo mineral 20w50 that Autobarn like to loss lead for $10 a bottle - that stuff is designed for running in engines / oil flushing and servvicing pre-90's shitheaps that burn through oil, just like every other 20w50 mineral on the market.

Where can we find you in Victoria to get our hands on some 10W 40?

Also, does using an ethanol based fuel seem to make much difference to oil thinning in your experience?

cheers,