The Goods On Oils

[Wacky Dee]

now I'm 99.99999% sure it's neither lifters NOR exhaust manifold/gasket/bolts .... but rather the timing belt idler bearing.

I got one of those things you stick in your ears connected to a long metal rod (like doctors use when listening to you breathe) and the noise is most loud at the top right of the engine just behind the timing belt cover.

Then i found a couple of vids on youtube from other SAU members who had that exact same noise in the exact same area and when they replaced the idler/tensioner bearings it went away!

Can't frigging wait to get this done now... parts alone cost $600 (nissan timing belt/water pump, idler and tensioner and bearings and studs ... rocker cover gaskets.) How much do you reckon I should pay for labour for all of the above?

MUDDA FARKA IS GONESKY!!!!

Had the timing belt/pump and bearings replaced on friday ... once it was all put back together and started, the car was making the same frigging rattle and I was like CUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT but oh well.

Then next morning GONE!@!!!!! I've had a few cold starts now and its totally gone. My so called "sticky lifter" is 100% gone wooooooooooooooT.

So anyone whose car sounds like this

or this

get ya bearings and timing belt changed! I used genuine Nissan parts only (not sure if it matters)

[siksII]

MUDDA FARKA IS GONESKY!!!!

Had the timing belt/pump and bearings replaced on friday ... once it was all put back together and started, the car was making the same frigging rattle and I was like CUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT but oh well.

Then next morning GONE!@!!!!! I've had a few cold starts now and its totally gone. My so called "sticky lifter" is 100% gone wooooooooooooooT.

So anyone whose car sounds like this

or this

get ya bearings and timing belt changed! I used genuine Nissan parts only (not sure if it matters)

Both those videos sound more like mild piston slap rather than lifters to me. Assuming the noise has now disappeared it cant be piston slap in your case.

Did you say it makes the noise sometimes or all the time? (before the bearing changes) Assuming that it made the noise when you started it after the bearing change it seems strange to assume they fixed the problem permanently.

[Wacky Dee]

it was doing it on cold starts for the first 2-3 minutes .. then it would progressively become unnoticable once warmed up. It's been like that for 18 months.

Yeah I've no idea why it was still doing it after everything was put on ...but since the morning after, have had atleast 5-6 cold starts and it's completely gone. And it's exactly the same type of noise as in those youtube vids and both those guys also had it go away after timing belt/waterpump/bearings were changed.

[Rolls]

Both those videos sound more like mild piston slap rather than lifters to me. Assuming the noise has now disappeared it cant be piston slap in your case.

Did you say it makes the noise sometimes or all the time? (before the bearing changes) Assuming that it made the noise when you started it after the bearing change it seems strange to assume they fixed the problem permanently.

Agreed sounds like piston slap to me, but if its gone then it must have been the bearings, not to mention I've never heard piston slap from stock pistons.

[Wacky Dee]

Now that I think of it ... Yavuz did reset my CAS timing back to 15 after the initial start (still with the rattle and at 17deg).

Car was tuned by Toshi a while ago and due to a dodgy timing light it was tuned while at 17deg CAS timing. This is why the mechanic also set it back to 17 now after the service. That's when it was still making the noise.

So hmm .. it seems that resetting it to the factory 15 deg CAS timing must be the reason it stopped ?? That's the only thing that makes sense ...

[Rolls]

Reducing timing massively reduces piston slap when cold, I have forged pistons that make a hell of a racket on a stone cold morning, but if it kicks into the cold start/low octane map (it does most the time when really cold) it pulls loads of timing and the rattle goes away instantly.

I'm fairly confident that is what your issue was then, piston slap.

[Wacky Dee]

piston slap on a 12yo R34 with 195rwkw and 80,000 Kms? This thing came looking like new when I bought it 2 years ago ...no mods, no ratthles, nothing, factory smell. And I baby it and haven't tracked it once. Isn't piston slap something you'd get from a severely trashed engine ??

None of the people that saw the car in person and hear the noise mentioned pistol slap and they work on skylines and other performance cars on a daily basis. And is reducing timing from 17 deg to 15 really that massive ?

[Rolls]

Piston slap can still happen, it is nothing bad just a bit of noise, means if you ever get it rebuilt you might need an ever so slight overbore but it is not really an issue, if it isn't piston slap then I have no idea what else it could be, reducing the timing will always reduce piston slap, and I cant think of a single other thing that it would reduce.

Piston slap isn't caused by thrashing a motor, some pistons just have more of a tendency to do it due to thermal expansion.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Rolls

[siksII]

piston slap on a 12yo R34 with 195rwkw and 80,000 Kms? This thing came looking like new when I bought it 2 years ago ...no mods, no ratthles, nothing, factory smell. And I baby it and haven't tracked it once. Isn't piston slap something you'd get from a severely trashed engine ??

None of the people that saw the car in person and hear the noise mentioned pistol slap and they work on skylines and other performance cars on a daily basis. And is reducing timing from 17 deg to 15 really that massive ?

Rolls thats very interesting I never knew the timing had an effect on piston slap when cold, do you know why?

Wacky - im not saying its the case with your car - but over the years I have seen plenty of cars with rebuilt motors where the owner/sales person does not know about it. Its unusual on the GTT but very common with GTRs, just something to keep in mind.

If the sound was the same sound that is in those youtube videos then im surprised your mechanics did not point out the noise. Do you have stock ecu? If so then why not set the timing to 17 and see if the noise comes back? If it does at least you will know for sure what triggers the noise.

[Rolls]

yes less timing means less force on the piston as the mixture has expanded further and has less time to act on the piston, less force means less torque rotating it towards the wall and hence less noise.

my car is a first hand example of this, with standard timing the noise is very loud when stone cold, but with the timing almost cut in half the noise completely disappears, when warm it doesn't make any difference as it doesn't slap.

[Wacky Dee]

Rolls thats very interesting I never knew the timing had an effect on piston slap when cold, do you know why?

Wacky - im not saying its the case with your car - but over the years I have seen plenty of cars with rebuilt motors where the owner/sales person does not know about it. Its unusual on the GTT but very common with GTRs, just something to keep in mind.

If the sound was the same sound that is in those youtube videos then im surprised your mechanics did not point out the noise. Do you have stock ecu? If so then why not set the timing to 17 and see if the noise comes back? If it does at least you will know for sure what triggers the noise.

I would but don't have a timing gun So if I drive over to the mechanic and get it reset to 17 I'll have to wait a couple of hours for the engine to cool down completely as the noise is only audible when the engine is cold.

Either way I'm happy as just to have the noise gone and car not sounding like a shitbox everytime I start it cold. I can live with less power as I'm driving it like a granny now anyway being on 1 demerit and all hehe.

[Birds]

Does anyone know the current state of GW and Sougi? I havn't posted here in quite a few months and was wondering if anything had changed, or if they went through with their plan to stop production. Birds? Galois? you guys are still here I hope

Haha still here mate, still here. Last I heard they were coming up with another cheap 10w40 replacement product. Birds will know more though...

I called GW to ask about Canberra distributors, and they informed me that s6000 had been discontinued....BIRDS EXPRAIN PRX

You know I wouldn't leave this thread! But...

TIS A SAD DAY FOR ME

Went to order some S6000 and GW have NONE left. Still a bit of M5000. Oh and I do have an undisclosed number of bottles still left on my shelf for PERSONAL USE (this shit is like weed) but I sincerely doubt you'll get any out of me (that's just a tease ). Seriously though, M5000 is just as good when used at shorter intervals so don't be afraid to use that until it's depleted and then move onto something else (or give Syn-X 3000 10w40 a go).

Still have not heard anything about the Sougi replacement, I suspect something might have gotten lost in translation there and that Syn-X, the semi-synth 10w40 is actually it's replacement. Sorry to give you a taste of a good thing boys lol, this stuff had it's fans.

[Rolls]

its just bloody oil lol go get some motul or something instead, seriously it wont be any different what so ever

[siksII]

its just bloody oil lol go get some motul or something instead, seriously it wont be any different what so ever

Agreed.

Birds - how do you know that M5000 is just as good but with shorter intervals?

Thats a very general statement and on paper/during normal use its probably true..... but since a few of us here give our cars frequent workouts I cant say I agree with you. Since you dont believe in UOA you cant prove otherwise either apart from the whole touchy feely (most of the time imagined) aspect.

In addition to this, most ester oils are biased towards racing and from my understanding most racing oils feature less detergents. With this in mind, although the ester oil may break down slower in some ways it may also be suited to more frequent oil changes due to low levels of detergents/dispersants - something to consider.

[Birds]

its just bloody oil lol go get some motul or something instead, seriously it wont be any different what so ever

No, it will be different given S6000 is a $60 product and 300V is $120+

Most users of Sougi will tell you that S6000 is every bit on par with the latter too. I don't expect you to understand if you haven't tried it though

Agreed.

Birds - how do you know that M5000 is just as good but with shorter intervals?

Thats a very general statement and on paper/during normal use its probably true..... but since a few of us here give our cars frequent workouts I cant say I agree with you. Since you dont believe in UOA you cant prove otherwise either apart from the whole touchy feely (most of the time imagined) aspect.

In addition to this, most ester oils are biased towards racing and from my understanding most racing oils feature less detergents. With this in mind, although the ester oil may break down slower in some ways it may also be suited to more frequent oil changes due to low levels of detergents/dispersants - something to consider.

Because I've tried M5000. And that's a rule of thumb about semi-synthetic blends versus full synthetics, so let's not get into semantics about specific use. You might as well argue that a service interval should be 4998km instead of 5000, pointless exercise. It is a general statement I make, because I'm not stupid enough to give specific statements about oils and ignore the fact that every vehicle situation is different. Therein lies your UOA fallacy, where you think engine-specific UOA results can be usefully generalised to other peoples engines or uses. Not having the UOA vs. feel test argument here again - we've had it twice already and many a Sougi convert has been created in this thread with word-of-mouth based on the feel of the oil alone. Not a single unhappy user...and that's all that matters. If you want to do a UOA, be my guest...I'm not spending the time or money. It's a pointless exercise for what we're doing here.

Also, contrary to your thoughts on ester oils...Sougi is actually very detergent heavy.

[Rolls]

No, it will be different given S6000 is a $60 product and 300V is $120+

Most users of Sougi will tell you that S6000 is every bit on par with the latter too. I don't expect you to understand if you haven't tried it though

it might be that much better but it isnt going to make that much difference

[Birds]

If that were the case there wouldn't be an angry mob of fans pissed off about GW discontinuing the product. Motul is grea but no one wants to pay more for things than they have to.

[Rolls]

If that were the case there wouldn't be an angry mob of fans pissed off about GW discontinuing the product. Motul is grea but no one wants to pay more for things than they have to.

the angry mob isn't really that big

[scotty nm35]

Damn, I only have one bottle left, how secure is your stash Birds?

[Galois]

I only have 3, and I advertised these while selling my 34. Just saying guys, how much is the sougi worth to you? I'll throw in a free car

PS: Birds, it isn't safe enough :|