The Goods On Oils

[some_cs_student]

I don't know whether BMW uses Castrol anymore or not, I don't use it anyway in my BMW. I'm not protecting Castrol here in any way, but it still doesn't change the fact that heaps of road cars use 10w 60, Ferrari, BMW M cars, FPV F6 recommends it, and so does my tuner and other tuners on this forum. There must be more to it than we know, so in my opinion 10w 60 weight oil sound realistic to me for street driven and track driven duties in a high performance car.

I think its an Australian point of view to tend towards thicker oils, I was reading the US-based bob-is-the-oil-guy to determine what oil is preferred in an old Ford 4litre, I kept finding that they tend to use 0w30 or 10w40 in there old Holden V8's where Australian would use a much thicker oil. And don't try to argue about temperature difference, it does get hot in the part of the US we were discussing

Anyway, the only real way to do this is UOA which costs money, but I'm of the opinion that 10w60 is too thick and has too many additives for our RB26's in my humble opinion unless your doing track work really often. But run a UOA to confirm

[Buraz]

Mate i'v been reading BITOG aswell, they don't have Ford turbo sixes over there as they are aussie built and only sold here and recommend 10w 60 weight oil, nor do they have Castrol Edge Sport 10w 60, I'm just going by what was recommended by professional who work on engines and some manufacturers. I don't understand is if this is what his engine builder recommended to use why people try to steer him in the wrong direction obviously the builder would know best. For my rb26 I was recommnded this weight oil as said before by one of the best in oz who mainly works with rb engines, so I'm guessing he would know a thing or two more than most of us.

[Buraz]

By the way there were a few people using 5w 30 oil in m3's on bitog even when BMW strictly recommends tws 10w 60, and only approves one more manufacturer other than Castrol, this just shows that they can be wrong as well and can't go by everything they say it's a forum after all just like sau everyone has their own opinion.

[cactus]

By the way there were a few people using 5w 30 oil in m3's on bitog even when BMW strictly recommends tws 10w 60, and only approves one more manufacturer other than Castrol, this just shows that they can be wrong as well and can't go by everything they say it's a forum after all just like sau everyone has their own opinion.

Its amazing the number of different opinions you get on oils... I guess everyone has their own experiences/bias. But thank you for all your replies, it has been a massive help. I called my tuner last night to see what he said (I really trust this guy) and he suggested a 20W-60 mineral based oil for the first 5000km's, which is what I'm going to go with. After this, I think I will give the Motul a shot as everyone has suggested!

So I bought Penrite HPR30 last night. This will be used for my power tune and the first 5000km's. I will let you know how it all goes and what I think of it

Again, thank you for all your replies!

[Buraz]

That's it mate trust your tuner/builder, i wasn't talking about a particular brand you should run in your car, I was more refering to weights and using Castrol as an example because I use it. He should know what weight oil is best suited even if it's street driven there are many different factors eg bearings, clearances, oilpump, boost (more boost more heat), oil pressure, rpm just to mention a few that determine what oil weight to use. Motul is a great oil probably the best and it's price tag suggests the same, but even when you run it in and if you go down the Motul route I bet your builder will recommend 300v 15w 50, because of it's weight.

Cheers

[some_cs_student]

Mate i'v been reading BITOG aswell, they don't have Ford turbo sixes over there as they are aussie built and only sold here and recommend 10w 60 weight oil, nor do they have Castrol Edge Sport 10w 60, I'm just going by what was recommended by professional who work on engines and some manufacturers. I don't understand is if this is what his engine builder recommended to use why people try to steer him in the wrong direction obviously the builder would know best. For my rb26 I was recommnded this weight oil as said before by one of the best in oz who mainly works with rb engines, so I'm guessing he would know a thing or two more than most of us.

If your engine is built, and your engine builder recommends something, I'd go with him as well

I never said BITOG was perfect, its a community forum not an experts forum.

Re the Ford 6, I'm running 15w40 at the moment in a 1996 Ford Engine, I'm considering Penrite 15w50, the other choices were 10w60 (or 70 or something with really big numbers). Just looking for a cheap fully or at least semi-synthetic for the Ford as some of the cheaper oil gets burnt up pretty quickly.

[Rolls]

I plan to run Castrol Edge (gold bottle) 10-60 in my freshly built RB30DET when it goes on the dyno for its final tune (with 18psi). Does this oil sound alright? I really have no idea what to use, this was on the advice of a few people who deal the stuff...

Use a fully synthetic oil, castrol edge is a blend I'm fairly sure. Motul 8100 is good for the price, otherwise any of the other expensive fully synthetics listed in the first page will be suitable.

If it is freshly built I would personally ask the builder though.

[Buraz]

If your engine is built, and your engine builder recommends something, I'd go with him as well

I never said BITOG was perfect, its a community forum not an experts forum.

Re the Ford 6, I'm running 15w40 at the moment in a 1996 Ford Engine, I'm considering Penrite 15w50, the other choices were 10w60 (or 70 or something with really big numbers). Just looking for a cheap fully or at least semi-synthetic for the Ford as some of the cheaper oil gets burnt up pretty quickly.

Yes thats all I was getting at, just to listen to the engine builder as he would know best as he built the engine and what would suit it the most. Regarding the Ford thing I was trying to point out is that new F6 Typhoon when its run in after about 3000k its recommended to use 10W 60 oil, and it happens that Castrol Edge Sport 10W 60 is approved oil by Ford.

It just shows that not all cars are the same, doesn't matter how good the oil's are these days different cars need different weight oil recommended by the manufacturer, or engine builders/tuners when modified as they know what will suit them best. You cant just stick in there what ever you feel like and say but this is a good oil etc. You need to talk to people with experience that have done it before and know their shit. Like I mentioned earlier M3's run 10w 60 weight oil from factory, and their other 6 cylinder engines run 5W 30 blends, so there is obviously a reason to this, the engine is built differently. I was recommended heavier oil because its modified, so now its not really the same as Nissan built it with 9psi boost and much less stress on engine components, and not to mention how many kays the car has really done. Thats why I decided to take expert advice who know these engines well and they have their own reasons. I personally wouldnt go below 10W 40 on an everyday RB26 thats mildly modified and street driven, with a good quality oil like Motul 10W 40 or RP 10W 40. Give a few workshops a buzz and ask for their advice and I bet you alot of them will say 5W 30 is way too thin for RB engines with a few basic mods.

Cheers

[BeEnAr]

Just to add to this massive thread, Mobil 1 5w50 with super syn is only $49 at Autobarn at the moment. Got myself a couple of bottles today.

Have also read this entire thread and there is a lot of misinformation in it about oils and base stocks etc. What everyone has to remember is that most of the shelf bought stuff is going to be fine in your RB. Sure the Motul and other ester based oils are slightly better but at almost double the price of some other oils they are a waste of money if you are dropping the oil every 5000km or less unless you are racing or see a lot of track I wouldn't bother for a daily or street driven car, unless of course you have the money and don't mind wasting it. "full" Synthetics from Mobil, Shell, Fuchs, Penrite, Valvoline, Castrol, Nulon, Penrite, etc. are all going to do fine in your car it all depends on your individual driving style, type, engine, climate and personal preference. Same as fuel, most people I know (me included) won't run Shell V-Power in their cars for various reasons, same goes with your oil. Find one you like and use it, or try different ones, who cares, they are all going to protect your engine, just some have better marketing, sorry, protection.

My 2 cents anyway.

*puts on nomex suit and prepares for flaming*

[SS8_Gohan]

i agree with 5k intervals... silly, especially if you're running a very good oil. Also km's is a silly measuring stick, because a lot of us don't drive our cars often.

Go on time OR km's. I go on time because i would maybe do 5-6K km's in a year. I don't want the oil sitting in the car for a year, so i do every 6 months. Or after every track day.

No one is saying an engine is going to stop working just because it has a Group III oil in it. We're just saying for not much more $$, you can use a high quality oil that is going to have a much greater chance of giving your engine an easier life, and perhaps preventing any major drama's that will end up costing $$$.

Turbo cars do put more of an emphasis on choosing a quality oil and i think that's why you see a lot of us giving some decent thought to what we decide to run.

And since there has been such an advancement in oils since the Dino days, then i'm happy to make use of that extra tech and give greater protection to my engine.

There is a reason why they have big sales on oils like 5w50, etc... there is very little demand for that sort of range, and understandably so. You want to keep the numbers as close together as you possibly can (sans racing oils)- can't sell the stuff, so they sell it off cheap.

Some of the 'large' range oils in the past have turned out to not be full synthetic, despite being part of a 'synthetic' line-up.

Regardless of what weight/viscosity you want... keeping the numbers as close as possible is still a rule that can followed regardless of what brand, etc.

[Birds]

I know nothing about oils and have no mechanical qualifications outside of , I hope , common sense and 45 years of driving experiance and DIY servicing .

After reading a shit load of posts it would seem to me the problem is one that is inherant with the RB engines and that is that the pump shoves all the oil into the top of the block/head and as the oil can't drain back fast enough so the bottom end 'can' starve resulting in spun bearings and all sorts of mischief.

Basicly what this would seem to mean in a practical sense is that an engine that should be good on 15x50 in summer and 10x40 in winter (never mind the syn v dino atm) actualy has a manufacturers spec of 7.5 x 30 so that it's thin enough to actualy drain back and not cause bottom end starvation , what a crock, 7.5 x 30 what were they thinking ?

Living in SE Qld I am lucky enough to not to have to worry to much about wildly excesive high/low temperatures,sure we get a couple of chilly ones and a few hot ones so good ole common sense says to me no floggy when too hot/cold.

As the average ambient temp is consistantly higher here that the manufacturers would have likely planned for in most of these cars I have gone for 10 x 40 Nulon Hi Flow Full Synthetic (as I posted previously) .

The price is good, the oil specification seems on the money and the results seem fine with a good hot/cold oil pressure, smooth running engine and a fuel consumption of 13.3ltr 100klms.(98 R34GTT)

I now wait with baited breath for someone to shoot down my methodoligy

^This man was on the money. DIY servicer admitting to no knowledge of oils, yet he's demonstrated more knowledge of oils than I've seen in the thread thus far (admittedly I haven't read all your posts; the thread is quite long). There's a big misconception about thinner oils always being better - this has alot to do with semi/full synthetics and the way they are marketed. Many synthetics have a wider viscosity range than minerals, which often includes a very low "winter" rating (5w etc.). Because they are more expensive than minerals and many of us have a "price = quality" perception/complex (we buy the best for our cars), their characteristics like the lower viscosities are frequently seen as ideal regardless of the application. Some are also marketed as increasing horsepower...this is true, thin oils hog less energy...but sometimes at the expense of protection where it's needed. Case in point: many 5000hp+ top fuel dragsters are running on about 25w70 mineral oil.

You need a balance between an oil thin enough to pass through the engine quickly without putting strain on engine internals, yet thick enough to actually do what oil is intended to do (think: water does not make for a good oil). This is a tough call to make and it's never an exact science (hence we have a hundred different people on here all saying a heap of different oils have done wonders for them). But as a rule of thumb, you can gauge it on A-B-C. A = age/wear/milage, B = bore/stroke/displacement, and C. climate/operating conditions.

Ignore the handbooks / owners manuals! Remember that our cars (along with many other cars brought to Australia) and their user manuals were originally designed for use in countries where temperatures during engine start up in winter are regularly below 0 degrees celsius - in these climates you need a really thin oil that doesn't thicken as easily on cold days (most liquids become thicker as temperature drops), thereby making it easier on the engine internals during startup and allowing the oil to pass around the engine quickly. In Australia there are few and far areas that see negative temperatures let alone sub 5 degrees celsius. In contrast, our warm mornings will leave your 0w/5w oil very thin for engine startup. Considering most engine wear occurs during startup and turnoff...this is where you need most protection (besides redlining the thing). Yes it needs to flow around the engine, but it also needs to do something once it's there! Also, user manuals are there for brand new cars with tight tolerances. Cars with atleast 100,000km or 15 years on the clock do not have the same tolerances they once had and they need slightly thicker oils to take up these tolerances.

In summary, for the daily driver turbocharged Skylines (most of the people on these forums), I recommend using a 10w40 semi or full synthetic oil. You can get away with using this all year round, but by all means step up to a 15w40 during summer for extra protection during the heat. Even if your car performs like a V8 it is still a small displacement engine...50 is too thick and 5w is too thin IMO.

/essay.

[BeEnAr]

^^

While I agree in part to most of what you are saying, to say that a 5w is too thin is not entirely true. Very rarely do Aussie mornings get above the 30 degree mark and below this your oil is still going to be a 5w, it's the cold weight of the oil, it doesn't care if it's 20 or 5 degrees outside, it's not that sensitive to temperature and your engine is not going to be teh same temp as the ambient temp of teh air surrounding it. I agree that the closer the number the better as there are less modifiers in the oil but a 50 weight is not too thick when you are pushing high 30s outside and your oil temps are on the high side of the 100's. Your oil is usually flowing better than the cold weight at operating temp anyway, just look at any of the CST information and you can see that it is flowing more readily, if anything I would actually go the opposite way and increase the hot weight, not the cold weight.

Only reason I got the 5w50 mobil 1 was because at $49 it's a bargain, it'll be gone in 20 thousand KMs anyway and then I might put some more 300v in if I have the cash, if not it will probably be another oil around the $50-$90 mark.

Just another question, not trying to be a smart ass so don't take it like that just curious is all.... Wouldn't Top Fuel drag cars use a proper race oil that is not a multi grade, i.e. a 60wt and not a multigrade like 25w70?? They don't care about cold start protection, they gonna pull down the motor after the meet anyway and a monograde is going to offer the best protection.

[Birds]

Thanks for your reply. I apologise too...I didn't mean to target you with regard to your purchasing of 5w50...was just using it as an example in my explanation of why in my opinion 10w40 is the ideal oil for our engines.

That's the problem, oil does care whether it's 20 or 5 degrees outside. Liquids change in viscosity depending on temperature. People often get confused by viscosity indexes on multi-grade oils, thinking that oil will be one of the two "weights" at all times (i.e. either cold or hot). Yet viscosity indexes allocated to multi-grade oils are based on tests of oil viscosity at only two specific temperatures...5w represents the oil's viscosity at only the lower test temperature (40 degrees celsius). Lower temperature than this and it will get thicker than it was when tested. 50 represents the oil's viscosity at only the higher test temperature (100 degrees celsius). Higher temperature than this and it will get thinner than when it was tested.

Viscosity indexes in multi-grade oils are there to reference an oil's ability to resist the viscosity effects of temperature changes. The goal in a multi-grade is to maintain relatively consistent viscosity despite temperature change...keeping in line with the requirements of the engine it is used in. A 10w60 will be much more consistent in its viscosity across a range of temperatures as opposed to say a mono-grade 30, which will change its viscosity in a somewhat linear fashion with temperature.

Reality has it your engine will run fine on the 5w50...you probably won't notice much of a difference if you don't pay attention to oil pressures or smoothness of the rev range. It certainly won't be "bad" for your engine that's for sure...but it's not ideal IMO. I'd be running this in larger displacement engines or if your engine is going through oil. 40 is a good viscosity index for our size engines and will suit pretty much all year round...all you need to alter if anything is the winter weight, seasonally. I've switched people from Motul's top drop 50 weight to a half-the-cost 10w40 full synthetic produced by an oil brand they've never even heard of (took some convincing mind you) - nothing but positive reports from making the change and the reason is viscosity more than anything.

As for the top fuellers...well, without going into the science of it (I'm no top fuel expert and I'm certainly not familiar with the engineering behind it), I know for a fact there are top fuellers using 25w70 cause I sell it to them

[BeEnAr]

yeah cool, I understand your logic, I was running Motul 300v 10w40 and last scheduled service at mechanics it got drained for 15w50 mineral due to it being dropped 3 times while there when doing upper engine flush to get rid of some of the carbon. I have now drained out the mineral crap and gone back to full synthetic. As I said the Mobil was cheap so I got it, to tell you the truth, it is revving a lot smoother than the mineral but probably on a par with the Motul, Oil pressure is same as usual, bout 6 and a bit when first started in morning, leveling out to between 2 and 4 while driving. temps are always around the same, high 80s while driving (mostly freeway where I live) and shooting up to bout 110 - 120 on the 40deg stinkers!

Oh and F%#K ME!! That oil filter on a 32R is a bitch to get off!!! next time it's K&N filter for me, at least then I can get a spanner on the lug nut to get teh bastard off!!!

[Birds]

Was it on too tight or just difficult to reach? R33 GTS-T is a bit of a pain too. Can reach it easy by hand but getting a filter wrench around it and having room to twist is another thing. I've had many a friend put their car in for service, specifically tell them to do everything but the oil...come back and find the car full of 20w50 mineral lol.

If you're interested, message me when you need more oil...I'll sell you a full synthetic 10w40 for near cost ($65) that I want you to try...I reckon you'll rate it over the Motul

[mosoto]

I'm keen, send me some info pls Bird.

[BeEnAr]

Yeah was on too tight, tried all the tricks to get it off too:

1. bare hands and muscle

2. windex on hands, let dry so sticky, then step 1

3. Mechanix wear gloves with grip palm

4. Latex rubber glove

5. normal rubber gloves

Could have put a scredriver through it but couldn't be assed with the mess. I'll get a proper filter wrench and get it off in 10,000kms.

The olny reason the mineral was in there was because we were flushing the engine of all the shit in it after the upper engine clean.

PM me the details of this "wonder oil" I am curious now, I'll try most things at least once

[Birds]

Ahhh...just like spark plugs, wheel nuts and sump plugs...oil filters are also prone to the "tighter is better" perception lol. Nothing more defeating than something that won't come loose.

Not a wonder oil (don't expect too much) but a damn good oil that's for sure...you both have PMs

[TaKz]

just changed my oil to some 0w40

on cold starts the oil pressure is lower then before. it's at about 4 at idle when cold and drops down to normal operating pressure much faster then before

does that sound right?

[PM-R33]

Yep.