The Goods On Oils

[FLN75S]

Hmm, about as confused as one can get on oils. Car had Havoline in it originally. No idea what kind. So put in some Penrite HPR10 semi with the plan to then go fully synthetic next change. Engine has 90k on it. Gut feeling is the HPR10 might not be the best oil for this engine, but then again I don't know what is the "best" or better one to choose.

- Motul seems a winner by many peoples postings. I gather it's either the 300V or the 8100 (not sure what version of this is the one to use).

- Royal Purple has some fans as well.

- GW Sougi. This sounds like a good oil, but don't think anyone sells it on the Gold Coast.

As far as weights go, hmmm 10w40w or 0w40w or 5w40w? I understand the first number is for cold, the second is for hot temperatures, but still confused here.

Those 3 synth choices have fans. Also seen people mention Mobil 1. Penrite of course has some synth stuff as well as Nulon.

Price is not the main consideration, but then again it's certainly an important one. Like if one is close the other in prices, then most people would pay that little bit extra for it.

I'm confused big time on this however. I've seen Mobil 1 for $60, Motul for $110, Penrite for $70 and so on. I know oils are like women, everyone's different , but hoping to get a clearer understanding of all this, and ultimately what one to purchase.

The cheaper Mobil stuff wont be a full synthetic so just be carefull. I used to run Mobil 1 full synthetic in my 34 and 33 but i have been converted also to the 300v it just seems better and the lifters on the race car are quieter i think the Mobil 1 would thin down and get affected by the heat quicker. Either way i will be sticking to the Motul from now on.

[SS8_Gohan]

Well, motor is 7k kms old and it only sees occasional weekend driving...

Royal purple don't make a 5W40... Just:

5W20

5W30

10W30

10W40

15W40

20W50

Thanks for the info though!

probably because the greater the gap in the numbers, the more additives have to be used, and potentially the more 'compromised' the oil becomes. That's why for the true synthetics you don't see the big gaps like 5w40 too much. You WANT the numbers to be as close as possible.

And regarding the E85 fuel question... there's not much info around about this unfortunately but there is ONE oil that is definitely off the list, Motul 300V Chrono. And before anyone gets their knickers in a knot, Motul themselves have advised against running their oil in E85 cars.

I feel at the moment, it's safer to stick with the yank oils if you want to run E85, because they've been dealing with ethanol for longer than we have and have a wider availability of E85 for longer as well. Currently running AMSoil 10w40, after switching from Royal Purple. Pity really because i was going to switch to Motul 300V, oh well.

Yeah, 5,000km drains on an oil like 300V is overkill. You buy a top shelf oil because it's not just going to shit itself after 1 week in your car. The oil is still work as designed at 10,000km and probably a decent bit longer as well. Obviously track days aside, 10K for a very good oil is fine. But i still like to go with time OR km's. I'm sure a lot of use don't do too many km's a year so i usually do say 6months OR 7,500km's... which ever is first. You might not do the km's, but the oil still has been sitting in the car for a while.

[dori34]

I'm sure a lot of use don't do too many km's a year so i usually do say 6months OR 7,500km's... which ever is first. You might not do the km's, but the oil still has been sitting in the car for a while.

Wow i do that much in 2-3 months lol

You guys don't drive your cars much?

[Birds]

Well, motor is 7k kms old and it only sees occasional weekend driving...

Royal purple don't make a 5W40... Just:

5W20

5W30

10W30

10W40

15W40

20W50

Thanks for the info though!

Then your vehicle might be fine with the oil you purchased - see how it runs. If it feels to rough then switch over to RP's 10w40 or if you drive the thing fairly hard then you might want to look at a 15w50 from another brand.

[Jez13]

Wow i do that much in 2-3 months lol

You guys don't drive your cars much?

geez, i did around 2,500 per year - you guys drive too much lol. Plus I change my oil and every filter every year too....overkill? idk

I was speaking to a fuchs engineer yesterday and he beleives its impossible to make a 10-40w fully synthetic. I was confused but did not ask why as I wouldnt understand the answer. However they do make a 5-40w fully synthetic - and you pay an arm for it. Titan super thin it is called and apparently popular with turbo drift cars.

[Birds]

Do you remember on what grounds he was stating a 10w40 fully synthetic can't be made? Maybe you misheard what he was saying? Cause even Fuchs' product range contradicts that:

http://www.fuchs.com.au/categories.asp?cID=10

TITAN

CARGO MC

SAE 10W-40 • Fully synthetic, ultra high performance lubricant.

Synthetic relates to the makeup of the base oil used...being that it is either man made or mineral. Synthetic oil allows you greater flexibility with regards to cold/warm viscosities and the ability to use a wider range of additives in the additive package (recipe for the oil). I.e. you can achieve a multigrade of 10w60 using fully synthetic base oil but to my knowledge, not with mineral base oil.

Perhaps he was saying you can't make a 10w40 mineral oil? As to my knowledge all 10w40 oils are at a minimum semi-synthetic.

[Ten Four]

Nope, 6-7k kms. Forgie. I was thinking about 10w40 but it just seemed a bit thick to me for a newish motor.

And yeah, car doesn't see many kms. 2-3 months - done maybe 800-1k kms?

Edited March 26, 2010 by Ten Four

[Jez13]

Do you remember on what grounds he was stating a 10w40 fully synthetic can't be made? Maybe you misheard what he was saying? Cause even Fuchs' product range contradicts that:

http://www.fuchs.com.au/categories.asp?cID=10

TITAN

CARGO MC

SAE 10W-40 • Fully synthetic, ultra high performance lubricant.

Synthetic relates to the makeup of the base oil used...being that it is either man made or mineral. Synthetic oil allows you greater flexibility with regards to cold/warm viscosities and the ability to use a wider range of additives in the additive package (recipe for the oil). I.e. you can achieve a multigrade of 10w60 using fully synthetic base oil but to my knowledge, not with mineral base oil.

Perhaps he was saying you can't make a 10w40 mineral oil? As to my knowledge all 10w40 oils are at a minimum semi-synthetic.

damn, lying s.o.b's. Then again that oil is in the deisel/prime mover section. In the passenger car section they dont list any fully synthetics at 10-40. The Titan Supersyn was the one they recomended for my application. Got a good company discount for 5 litres - only $300. Hate to see the public price for it lol. I dont really have any understanding on the chemistry of the oils except for what you have already told me so I was not going to ask questions that I knew nothing about. I told him that I bought a motul 300v that is supposed to be fully synth and he didnt beleive that it could be....?

[Birds]

May not be lying, I think it's more a mistake on his or your behalf. Doesn't matter that the oil is in the diesel section - diesel oils just contain different additives to petrol oils (detergents to clean ash/soot for example) and in many cases can also be used in petrol engines as long as the oil label has a petrol SL/SM rating printed on it next to the diesel rating (usually CF4/Ci4).

I'm questioning my own knowledge here too because I'm just a distributor and he's an oil engineer, so I'm giving him much more benefit of the doubt than say average joe...but there are a ton of companies producing fully synthetic 10w40 oils and Fuchs seems to be the only one that doesn't have one specifically for petrol engines. Maybe they don't know how to make it lol? Far cry from the truth though, cause Fuchs make very good oil and are one of only a few companies (GW is another) that have ISO Quality Assurance (shit costs hundreds of thousands to attain and is very bureaucratic).

Maybe he didn't believe it was fully synthetic based on the cost of Motul, cause $300 for 5 litres of oil is f***ing ridiculous, even if it is Fuchs!

[KrazyKong]

Was reading a thread over on some Silvia forum (can't remember where at the moment), and Motul was getting trashed. So many posts from people stating they had tried Motul and ended up using Royal Purple. Since I've used neither I can't make a comparison.

However I think price is certainly a factor. And as others have posted on these forums, Repco have a 20% discount on Motul oils until the 5th of April. So that means...

300V - 4L - $104 now $84

8100 - 5L - $75 now $60.80

4100 Power - 5L - $59 now $48

4100 Turbolight - 5L - $59 now $48

The kicker for 300V is it coming in 4L vs 5L. Seems like either a shrewd move on their part or I'm not sure, but to then have to buy 2L more for the car is stupid.

The 5L 8100 seems the best deal to me. Compared with other oils, how would going with the 8100 (not sure if there are two different varieties of 8100. If so which one to use?) in 10w40w be in my car? A good choice?

Would the 8100 be better than the Castrol Edge, Mobil 1, Penrite Sin, Nulon's "synthetic" ??

Edited March 28, 2010 by KrazyKong

[08yannch]

i just changed my power steering fluid R33 GTS25T. it was because of a leaking hose and while i was there i thought i might as well change the oil.

i used CASTROL TRANSMAX® Z it took a little more than .5L and about 4hr because i just did it on gravity feed.

i didnt have any problems with the power steering b4 but i think that the transmax z is smoother altho that could be the placebo effect. but the crap i had in there b4 was dark red so probs some cheap ass ATF

*note transmax z only comes in 4L containers so u will have leftover and will set u back about $75 but u will probs never change it again and if u do u will have plenty of oil on hand

[KrazyKong]

Still hoping to hear back from anyone

Living on the Gold Coast, winter temps on the odd occasion drop to 0c or below, but only in the dead of night. So it never gets cold that much in the day or mornings.

Am thinking of purchasing Motul 8100 Xcess, but don't know whether to go for 5w40 or 10w40. Car is a R33 S2 Auto, has stock turbo, but will soon have an ARC FMIC, boost will be upped via the grounding solenoid trick, and have also installed a Walbro GSS294 fuel pump. Don't know what plugs I have in the car, and will be changed when I do the oil. Once all the bits and pieces are in place, I'll take it to a tuner.

But since Repco's 20% off Motul oils sale ends in a few days, I want to get something now. If the 300V came in a 5L I would get that. So instead will try the 8100.

I know this is a question asked over and over, but since the answers are always different, I have to ask again, and for my own personal situation.

[KrazyKong]

Time for some more headbanging lol. I figured the Motul 8100 Xcess was the best bang for buck for me, but then discovered it does not come in 10w40, only 5w40. Was pretty sure that the 10w40 would be the best fit for my car after asking countless people and reading what I could in these forums. Based on my driving style and climate it seems the right fit on paper at least.

To add to my confusion, I found a source for GW Sougi S 6000 10w40 on the Gold Coast for $60 + tax for 5L. What I can't find out is what group (III, IV or V) this oil is. This is from their website...

Fully Synthetic 10w40 motor oil designed for high performance 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engines. Sougi – S 6000 has been blended using Gulf Western’s unique double bonded additive technology providing superior film strength opposed to conventional lubricants. The Sougi range has been specifically manufactured to meet or exceed all the requirements of high performance Japanese vehicles. Polyol Ester base oil technology is the worlds leading synthetic base oil, outperforming PAO’s and Group III bas oil.

Hmmm, going from the information in the very first post of this thread, Poly Ester base would make this a Group V oil, or at least a Group IV+ oil. Yet in their own description they compare this to being better and outperforming Group III oils. So does that then make this oil Group III+ or Group IV.

I would love to use Motul 300V Chrono. However it's not in the budget so I am trying to find the next best thing. I can't find a 10w40 in Mobil 1 either, but Nulon have one.

So I put it out to anyone here who has either found a 10w40 fully synthetic Group IV or V oil to post your thoughts. And especially if you have used the Sougi. Is it really as good as Motul?

[BASHO]

To add to my confusion, I found a source for GW Sougi S 6000 10w40 on the Gold Coast for $60 + tax for 5L. What I can't find out is what group (III, IV or V) this oil is. This is from their website...

Where abouts are you able to get the Sougi @60.00+tax from ? I want some for my next oil change.

If you're thinking of Nulon Fast Flow fully synthetic 10x40--it ain't full synthetic and neither 97% of oils out there claiming to be "Full Synthetic" either.

I gave Nulon away when the price went over $50.00 for 5lt and I found out it was'nt a syn anyway.

I'm using Penrite HPR10 --10X50 semi syn $39.95 - 5lt.

[KrazyKong]

Where abouts are you able to get the Sougi @60.00+tax from ? I want some for my next oil change.

If you're thinking of Nulon Fast Flow fully synthetic 10x40--it ain't full synthetic and neither 97% of oils out there claiming to be "Full Synthetic" either.

I gave Nulon away when the price went over $50.00 for 5lt and I found out it was'nt a syn anyway.

I'm using Penrite HPR10 --10X50 semi syn $39.95 - 5lt.

I havn't purchased any Sougi yet, so the price I was given over the phone at this point is tentative. I plan to get this next week, so will pass on the contact details if it all works out smoothly. Don't want to send anyone on a wild goose chase just yet.

Ok, so if the Nulon isn't a full synthetic, then I'll pass on that one. Seems alot of oil companies have "full synthetic" stuff that isn't even past Group III. I've only had my car long enough to do one oil change and I've been using the Penrite HPR10 10x50 as well. I don't have any leaks nor does the engine burn oil, but I'm not a fan of this oil. It's too thick on startup and too me, it's not the right oil to be using, so I will not be using that again. Lately I'm starting to hear the lifters or some sort of tapping noise at the top of my engine, so it's time to get it out and put something else in.

As far as filters go, is the Genuine Nissan one from Kudos Motorsports better than the Ryco sold at Super Cheap/Autobarn?

[Birds]

Kong mate, you overthink this all wayyyyyy too much! Let the oil chemists do the over-analysing

You're not going to do harm to your engine within a 5000km service interval even if you pick the wrong brand/grade/whatever. So just get out there and experiment yourself instead of trying to narrow it down on paper.

Time for some more headbanging lol. I figured the Motul 8100 Xcess was the best bang for buck for me, but then discovered it does not come in 10w40, only 5w40. Was pretty sure that the 10w40 would be the best fit for my car after asking countless people and reading what I could in these forums. Based on my driving style and climate it seems the right fit on paper at least.

To add to my confusion, I found a source for GW Sougi S 6000 10w40 on the Gold Coast for $60 + tax for 5L. What I can't find out is what group (III, IV or V) this oil is. This is from their website...

Hmmm, going from the information in the very first post of this thread, Poly Ester base would make this a Group V oil, or at least a Group IV+ oil. Yet in their own description they compare this to being better and outperforming Group III oils. So does that then make this oil Group III+ or Group IV.

I would love to use Motul 300V Chrono. However it's not in the budget so I am trying to find the next best thing. I can't find a 10w40 in Mobil 1 either, but Nulon have one.

So I put it out to anyone here who has either found a 10w40 fully synthetic Group IV or V oil to post your thoughts. And especially if you have used the Sougi. Is it really as good as Motul?

Forget about group comparisons, because all it refers to is the technology/materials that the oil is created with. It doesn't necessitate one group of oil being better than another - in fact group 1 and 2 have some advantages of their own over 3 and PAO in certain situations. Then there is the case of an oil being shit regardless of the group. Group will only matter to you if you demand a synthetic oil and want to be certain of it by quoting the manufacturer on it.

Sougi S 6000 is a group 5. GW say it outperforms PAO and group 3 because PAO is basically group 4.

Pick a synthetic 10w40 and you will be happy with it.

If you want Motul 300V but can't afford it then go for Sougi. Read the last few pages of this thread and you'll see a couple of people who have tried it and found great results. I can afford Motul but I choose Sougi over it anyway, cause A. I can just pull a bottle off the shelf when I want to do an oil change, and B. I reckon it's just as good if not better for my requirements than 300V.

Are your tappets noisy on startup or all the time? You say you've only had one oil change since owning the car - it is possible the car was running a 15w40, 15w50 or 20w50 beforehand which was silencing this noise (as a heavier oil will do, to the detriment of the engine)? Tappets can also be silenced by going thinner if the situation calls for it, but if you're already at 10w there may not be much hope for you and replacing the tappets might be your only option (besides bandaiding/silencing it with a thicker oil).

[KrazyKong]

Kong mate, you overthink this all wayyyyyy too much! Let the oil chemists do the over-analysing

You're not going to do harm to your engine within a 5000km service interval even if you pick the wrong brand/grade/whatever. So just get out there and experiment yourself instead of trying to narrow it down on paper.

Forget about group comparisons, because all it refers to is the technology/materials that the oil is created with. It doesn't necessitate one group of oil being better than another - in fact group 1 and 2 have some advantages of their own over 3 and PAO in certain situations. Then there is the case of an oil being shit regardless of the group. Group will only matter to you if you demand a synthetic oil and want to be certain of it by quoting the manufacturer on it.

Sougi S 6000 is a group 5. GW say it outperforms PAO and group 3 because PAO is basically group 4.

Pick a synthetic 10w40 and you will be happy with it.

If you want Motul 300V but can't afford it then go for Sougi. Read the last few pages of this thread and you'll see a couple of people who have tried it and found great results. I can afford Motul but I choose Sougi over it anyway, cause A. I can just pull a bottle off the shelf when I want to do an oil change, and B. I reckon it's just as good if not better for my requirements than 300V.

Are your tappets noisy on startup or all the time? You say you've only had one oil change since owning the car - it is possible the car was running a 15w40, 15w50 or 20w50 beforehand which was silencing this noise (as a heavier oil will do, to the detriment of the engine)? Tappets can also be silenced by going thinner if the situation calls for it, but if you're already at 10w there may not be much hope for you and replacing the tappets might be your only option (besides bandaiding/silencing it with a thicker oil).

Well I do my best to research various parts in my car as well as oil . Have been over confident in the past and had that "I know all" attitude, and sometimes things havn't turned out right. Since I like my car, I'm taking my time to do it right.

I'm going to get the Sougi S 6000 and give it a try. As far as the Tappets noise, it's only just started doing that. So either I'm just low on oil or I'm not sure, but it hasn't always been there, and I've done 9-10k so far in my car. The previous oil could have been thicker, but I recall the stock oil pressure gauge reading 4 alot sooner with that oil. Right now my Penrite HPR10, the oil gauge sits at 6 for awhile, then slowly comes down to 4. Sitting at lights, it then drops below 4. I don't recall the previous oil doing this. It just sat at 4 and didn't really move. I asked a local mod shop who do all kinds of works on imports and they said that was normal. For me it was just different, as the gauge readings for my first unknown oil and the Penrite were acting way different.

Anyway, Will get the Sougi and pop it in. As far as the filter goes, is the Nissan one any better? or will it be the exact same as the cheap Ryco?

Edited April 5, 2010 by KrazyKong

[Birds]

Much the same, difference will be negligible. More important is how often you change the filter. But for $10-15 try both and see which one collects more crap...

Tappets might just be wearing out. Another reason for the noise to come about is if you used an engine flush on your last oil change. Cleaning the gunk out of a head removes the cushioning effect the gunk had on worn components. That's why if you have an engine that's done 50,000km without an oil change - you're probably best to leave the oil in there lol

I know what you mean with researching parts of your car, this will particularly apply with bolt on modifications but as much as oil is the lifeblood of the engine it's ironically one of the few places you can't go wrong with regards to trying different types because oil companies can't afford to create and sell something that will damage an engine, unlike Chinese eBay. As long as you change it at regular intervals and discontinue the use of unsuitable oils. Oil pressure, don't be overly concerned with it - it will fluctuate too much to be of useful information anyway. As long as you have pressure you'll be fine

[Galois]

i guess here is as good as anywhere to ask this:

i recently changed oil and filter, but not the pressures seem to be all over the place. before, on whatever sh!t the previous owner ran the car on, the oil pressure was just over 4 on start up, and just over 2 normally. but now, on startup its above 6, and in normal driving while warm will move from 2.5-4.5 depending on load.

i put that nulon "100% synthetic" 10w40 stuff in, and changed from an old, large oil filter to the nissan one, which is significantly smaller.

also, where is the oil pressure gauge? i tried to search for this but no luck

any insight would be great

thanks

[180athid]

look at Nismos new line of oil products in collaboration with MOTUL

tested and developed with the gt500 gtr can't get much better than that

comes in 0-30w(qualifying) and 15-50w(competition)

http://www.nismo.co.jp/en/products/competi..._oil/index.html

have a read