Lpg Powered Gtr

[madbung]

The grant is ONLY possible if installed by an accredited installer, so if you aren't one, you wont be getting the $2000.

And ring around for prices of installation these days, 3k is not uncommon as its only costing you 1k and the installers know this in the current climate.

The grant-rebate didn't really help anyone other than the installers...As soon as it became available installation costs magically increased by about the same amount.

Now if they'd subsidised the cost of lpg instead.....

Another one of the Liberals poorly concieved intiatives...Thx John, glad you're gone.

Edited July 6, 2008 by madbung

[Ruffels]

i work at an accredited AAFRB Gas fitting workshop, and i think you're going to run into a few problems with your $2000 rebate.

medicare or centrelink (where you go to lodge your application for the rebate) will want to see a reciept for the conversion... and they wont accept bits and pieces reciepts because you've bought a tank from blow joe, a kit from someone else and then paid someone $500 to do a bit of labour!

They want a whole receipt from an accredited AAFRB Gas fitter, and they will also want the details from the AAFRB compliance plate that will be fitted apon commisioning of the gas system... however you will not be given a compliance plate if the kit is not EPA approved

now i'm not sure if the kit is approved or not... however i do know the workshop i work for installed vapour injection gas (what you apear to have) on my stepfathers 380, it was a Eurogas kit and was not approved.... and was the first 380 on gas in australia... but because eurogas expected more of them to be installed in the future, they paid the $10,000 and sent the car to sydney for emmisions approval...

if this hasnt been done with the kit you are installing.. not only will you not be able to get a compliance plate for it, it will be illegal and you certainly wont get your rebate!

just my 2c ... hope you've covered your bases!

[Ruffels]

The grant-rebate didn't really help anyone other than the installers...As soon as it became available installation costs magically increased by about the same amount.

Now if they'd subsidised the cost of lpg instead.....

Another one of the Liberals poorly concieved intiatives...Thx John, glad you're gone.

Not enitrely true!~

im not disputing that the price for gas installations hasnt gone up! however it certainly hasnt gone up $2000!

it has only increased a few hundred dollars!

so really it is still a massive help!

you can get a mixer/converter global or sprint gas system on an older holden or ford for ~$2500 ... so are you trying to tell me a gas conversion used to be less then $500? haha dont think so...

the reason for the expensive gas systems are because they are using vapour injection nowadays on newer cars and tough emmision laws state you have to have vapour injection on all cars newer then 2003 ... and the cheapest installed price on a vapour injection kit is about $4000.

plus the expensive costs that the gas system companies have to pay to get thier gas kits emmission approved!

before the grant was available these kits were brand new and if anything have settled in price with increased competition in the marketplace.

so if the grant wasnt available you'd be paying a SHITLOAD more!

also i can tell you.. where i work... we only put $100 markup on the kits we buy at trade price... which is next to nothing in comparison.. the money is made on labour costs and being able to knock out a gas conversion in 1 - 1.5 days

[arep3]

With the place that you work at Mark, Have you ever seen these new liquid injection systems?

[Ruffels]

nah at this stage we only do mixer gas and vapour injection... liquid injection is very new to australia

it has been around in europe for a little bit... its performance and economy has been proven.. however as far as its reliability and problems are concerned it is still unexplored territory ... so were are going to steer clear of installing them for about another year yet.

as far as i know only one company are offering it at the moment.. and afterinstallation support is a big thing in the gas automotive industry, and as many people dont know... most gas kits will void thier vehicle warrenty... so knowing the reliablilty of a product is a major issue ... even though we generally do offer a suplimentary warrenty on engine damage at an extra cost for a bit of extra protection...

however I expect the liquid injection kits to be widely available in a year or more as i have heard good things from them so far!

as for the Topic Starter.. i noticed you talking about which type or size of tank to use as you have limited room

- how about getting a doughnut tank to sit in the spare wheel carrier... you can get ones with 50-60L of useable gas .... and just get an racv membership incase of a flat ... or even "spare tyre in a can" is a popular alternative lol

or even if you dont want the previous idea you could opt for whats called a manifold tank, which consists of various thin cylinders mated together to create a large tank that is very thin! and can be custom made to size, that way you dont have a massive thick cylinder that will hang low to the ground and be visable from behind!

these tanks are made by APA... but i tihnk other companies do them to

[arep3]

i havent heard anything bad about liquid injection. from looking at the info that i can find, it looks fairly close to petrol injection in the way its used, controlled from the stock computer etc. if its gonna cool the air down further as the liquid expands to gas inside the head, then that could be a massive plus for performance motors. it would be almost like adding an extra intercooler to the car.

[coakman]

See everybody! Just like I said! Snags on a BBQ!

Edited July 6, 2008 by coakman

[coakman]

Is your S15 on gas? (or do you have plans to do it in the future?)

[arep3]

Full custom tank. made to fit any size hole you have. AND it doesnt look like snags on a BBQ!

[madbung]

Not enitrely true!~

im not disputing that the price for gas installations hasnt gone up! however it certainly hasnt gone up $2000!

it has only increased a few hundred dollars!

so really it is still a massive help!

you can get a mixer/converter global or sprint gas system on an older holden or ford for ~$2500 ... so are you trying to tell me a gas conversion used to be less then $500? haha dont think so...

the reason for the expensive gas systems are because they are using vapour injection nowadays on newer cars and tough emmision laws state you have to have vapour injection on all cars newer then 2003 ... and the cheapest installed price on a vapour injection kit is about $4000.

plus the expensive costs that the gas system companies have to pay to get thier gas kits emmission approved!

before the grant was available these kits were brand new and if anything have settled in price with increased competition in the marketplace.

so if the grant wasnt available you'd be paying a SHITLOAD more!

also i can tell you.. where i work... we only put $100 markup on the kits we buy at trade price... which is next to nothing in comparison.. the money is made on labour costs and being able to knock out a gas conversion in 1 - 1.5 days

Pre rebate basic conversions were $1200-$1500 depending on whether you like being ripped off or not.

Sequential gas systems are obviously a more expensive system thats a given but they sure as shit are not worth todays ticket price.

Your boss (you know the guy who does the accounts ect) is not pushing out gas systems on a $100 margin, If he was you'd be installing them under a gum tree and getting paid in gumnuts..Haha

The industry is rife with profiteering thats why the rebate will be removed soonish.

[arep3]

i think you need to re-read what he posted. They make $100 on the conversion kit and the rest of their profit is made on labour.

[madbung]

Which equates to??

profit? wow

[arep3]

No profit = where will they get money to eat?

we all work to make cash. everyone selling goods or services makes a profit. if not, they would simply go out of business as they couldnt afford to operate.

[Ruffels]

Is your S15 on gas? (or do you have plans to do it in the future?)

nah s15 isnt on gas, and no plans to do so either, as its forsale

however my daily driver (au falcon) is on gas and its definatly the way to go.. filling the tank costs $35 any with a heavy foot i get 320km for my $35

in reply to madbung. i understand your frustration.. but everyone needs to make profit mate. its generally not the installation prices that have increased... its the cost of the kits... so you can blame companies like global gas, sprint gas, euro gas and parnelle for the increased prices ... that all being said, its still much cheaper then running a dedicated petrol system.

we've recently been getting fantastic results from vapour sequential injection kits including better then ever fuel economy and close to no power losses, so all those waiting out for liquid injection. if your after bang for buck and do a fair bit of driving ... the vapour sequential injection kits are still fantastic.. although expect a 6 - 12 week wait on installation... as the suppliers of the kits cannot keep up with the demand

[arep3]

now we just need you to fit the vapour injection kit to a 350AWKW+ GTR or something similar and post up the results!

[madbung]

No profit = where will they get money to eat?

we all work to make cash. everyone selling goods or services makes a profit. if not, they would simply go out of business as they couldnt afford to operate.

^^^^^

Nice one...seems they managed the 30 or so years before without starving.

Ruffles, yeah I understand what your saying it's not just the installer that has ridden this gravy train into the ground..Suppliers ect, see a dollar take a dollar, that's business. My meandering point was more along the lines of: it would have been better policy to subsidise-discount the fuel rather than have a baby bonus type scheme for each gas kit installed, it's far less open to abuse via profiteering.

This would also encourage growth in the Gas installation industry as people see the difference and stability in price between gas and petrol and switch over. Economics-cpi aside the increase has been disproportionate. The gift that keeps giving...cheaper fuel for all. When the rebates gone it's gone.

Sorry for the politics, but damn it's frustrating.

Hijack over...hows that gtr going?

[arep3]

^^^^^

Nice one...seems they managed the 30 or so years before without starving.

The standard gas conversion kit that the industry has been installing for the last 30 years is still being installed these days for around $2500. I just had this done to my mothers car for $2300.

The really expensive kits that cost $4000+ are the vapour injection kits. there is a lot more work involved with installing these kits. work such as retapping the head to accept the injectors.

Can you see where the price comes into it now or are you going to continue to add comments with no proof to back up what you are saying?

[Billet Ricky]

I was recently talking to well known drag racer Jeff Watson about LPG in turbo performance applications. Jeff runs a LPG parts distribution company.

He was say something about the multi point LPG injectors drawing to much current for the run of the mill after market ECU’s like Microtech, Haltech, Motech and so on to be able to open and close the injectors.

I pretty sure Jeff and his nephew Ben Diggles are working with Link in NZ to come up with a system that can be used with the LPG injectors.

I got to talking about it with him because I am interested in doing a similar thing.

Might be worth a call to Link to find out where its at.

Regards,

Ricky Numeyer.

[madbung]

The standard gas conversion kit that the industry has been installing for the last 30 years is still being installed these days for around $2500. I just had this done to my mothers car for $2300.

The really expensive kits that cost $4000+ are the vapour injection kits. there is a lot more work involved with installing these kits. work such as retapping the head to accept the injectors.

Can you see where the price comes into it now or are you going to continue to add comments with no proof to back up what you are saying?

what was the point of that?

re-iterating the obvious. are we in the same conversation here? we don't appear to be.

I'd suggest you're being a goose for reasons only known to yourself.

Edited July 6, 2008 by madbung

[arep3]

what makes you think that the price is so high for? cos all installers are greedy bastards? wheres your proof? have you even researched it? spoken to an actual lpg fitter? are you even thinking about what your saying or are you just here to be a keyboard warrior?