Gtr Vs Gtst Huge Difference In Performance?

[bubba]

For me, I don't care how much money I throw at my gtst, I prefer rwd

An R34 GTR is on the cards further down the track but it will replace the 32 as the daily and the 32 will become more track dedicated.

[im late]

if so in a drag the gtr would have a better start but how bout the finish would the rearwheel be anybetter than the 4wd system?

I just read alot of junk mags and in one they said a rwdrive is superior at the high speed compared to the 4wd?

Let us know your thoughts

The GTR has the ATESSA 4WD System (yes it is electronic and computer/sensor controled).

Most of the time, the GTR runs in RWD mode, when it senses that the rear wheels are losing traction it will direct some of the torque to the front wheels.

So it is still a fabulous RWD car most of the time with 4WD when you need it.

It is NOT a full time 4WD car!!!!!

And HKS make a decive that you can use to control how much torque you want the front wheels to have or you can make it run in RWD mode only!!!!

Yet another example why a stock GTR is far superior to a GTS-T...

[bubba]

Horses for courses...

[Travis Trayhern]

and depending on what model gtr the body is far more ridged than gtst it would cost thousands to get the thing close to handling and performance

[Beer Baron]

yes there is a big difference. look at this list off the top of my head.

GTR, better engine both stock and potential wise

GTR better brakes

GTR better suspension

GTR better diff (2 way LSD vs viscous rubbish)

GTR better body (light alluminium panels, big flared guards, tough look)

GTR better wheels

GTR better seats

GTR better interior trim

GTR better intercooler

GTR bigger injectors

and that is just in factory form.

ash made a good point. you can get a stock R32 GTR to 250awkw with just a small boost increase, a re-map/PFC, exhaust and cam gear adjustment. on a 32 GTST those same mods get you about 150 or 160rwkw and you are pushing the turbo past it's happy zone. R33 GTST will get you about 190rwkw but again, turbo is running out as is everything else, 34 GTT may get to 200rkw at this stage, but R33 GTR will reach 260awkw and R34 GTR around 270awkw. and they do it easily.

to get 270rwkw out of an R32/33/34 GTST you need a lot of gear. and you still have the same old interior, brakes, wheels, suspension, bodywork etc etc.

The things the GTST has going for it are:

cheaper

cheaper to repair too

cheap-ish to mod

lighter (big advantage this one)

still fun to drive

but yeah, it's not really fair to compare the two. one is clearly superior in almost every way, and that's how it's meant to be. and the price tag reflects that.

[boostin_r33]

Just something I found bet many of u's have read this before.

GT-R owner's need deep pockets!

A couple of my friends have been asking me about buying a gtr recently. Having just sold one perhaps im not the right person to ask I quite liked the R33 vspec but the cost of modifcation and maintence seemed a bit much. More importantly im just not into awd cars but it's the cost of ownership that concerns my friends the most.

As we're said before a cheap GTR isnt always a bargain. I know some people who make a good living out of fixing old GTR's. They recon that RB stands for run bearing since so many cars come in with knocking bottom ends. This is the most upsetting out come for a recent GTR buyer as there is no way out of the problem for less than $7,000. Just pulling the engine out and re fitting it will rack up $2,000 plus in labour, so swapping in a USED ENGINE WILL PROBABLY COST OVER $7,00O and leave you teriffied of another bearing problem. Simply rebuilding the engine with standard parts will cost at least as much, and of course most people end up fitting a set of forged pistons, after market sump and so on to try and avoid future problems. Hey presto, well over $10,000. Re sale value starts to become academic when your pouring this much into keeping the thing going . Frankly I was happy to get out og my 4 month GTR owner ship experience without losing money. I cant help thinking i'm one of the very few who have achieved this.The RB26 engine, particualry in R32 form, does have some inherint problems with the oil system, but as much as anything , the GTR is a victim of abuse.Dont go thinking that the japanese owner was some retiree who sold it because his golf ckubs didnt fit. GTR's are driven very hard by anyone who hops ion the drivers seat catching there keys and putting a gash in the upholstery on the way. This is why you should always avoid lending your car to friends. New owners also regualary under estimate how often oil changes are needed.If you drive fairkly gentley you should still change your oil every 5000K's. If you drive it hard, every 3000k's and if you take it to the track, change the oil the next day. Yes, this will become expensive, but go back to the second paragraph if you have trouble shelling out for fresh oil. Also note that the red line in an R32 starts at 7,500 RPM while the R33 redline is 8,000 RPM this is probably not just a coincedence. So far we've only mentioned the bearings, but there are many other items that can be expensive to fix in a GTR. One friend of mine recently bought an R32 and after adding up the cost of the things that needed replacing, he decided to sell it and look for a different one. It needed a rebuilt transfer case, a new clutch, new brake rotors and pads, new coil overs and new castor rods. It all seemed fine when he test drove it , but the quote to replace all of these things was over $10,000. Thats more then I payed to purchase any of my last 4 cars except for the GTR. GTR's are easy to want but not so easy to own.

It's worth reading!

[Cubes]

Mine out runs a 32 GTR up and rolling from second like its standing still; both are making the same power at the same boost.

The GTR has a pair of 2510's.

Granted it does hang with until I click third.

[GeeTR]

Most of the time, the GTR runs in RWD mode, when it senses that the rear wheels are losing traction it will...

To be fair, it doesn't take wheelspin to direct torque to the front. Any real right pedal movement evokes a decent movement on the gauge.

Edited June 26, 2008 by GeeTR

[Roy]

On the track there are some GTSTs that can keep up with the GTRs. However, ask those GTST owners how much they spent on their car before they can catch up with the GTRs.

It really depends on how much money you can input into your car. Whoever has the 'dough' wins the race.

Your second comment is on the money in my eyes. The GTSt is a decent enough thing. The GTR is better, if you want to go quick then you are always better to start with the fastest factory car you can afford.

On the street i think the awd makes it the better car. On the track it still has an advantage but not as much as people expect. A 200rwkw std turbo R33 is punchy as hell, in the lower gears on the street. I would back it in a back street dash through the neighbourhood over a GTR which std i think are bloody laggy. But thats fair enough, as they make 250rwkws on std turbos so its understandable that they are laggier then an RB25 with a small single running more compression.

But, anyone can use a story to prove a point. 90% of the time the GTR will be the better all rounder, especially with money spent on it in the right places. But at a cost.

As for dash for cash. I would back most 20k R32 GTSts against a 20K R32 GTRs at the track On the street i would mush prefer the GTR, though at present i am loving the fuel economy of the RB20

LOL, and i cant help myself. Those people hanging shit on the R32 GTSt. Well here is an R32 GTSt with std RB20 with a turbo upgrade against an R32 GTR with Poncams and std turbos. As you can see the same dyno and tuner. The GTR no doubt has more torque, but it bloody well needs it as the car is heavier, and the gearing is longer. When looking at these cars and modding them you need to look at all areas of the car and make sure the mods compliment one another. I wish i could say i got my results with careful planning etc, truth is i lucked upon a good setup, though i did always have an eye on the 'package' when performing mods

R32 GTR

R32 GTSt with turbo

So compare the power and gearing of the RB20 above and for power at road speed it isnt really struggling that much. Now take into consideration the lighter weight and they can be pretty punch things.

[Bumblebee]

i love ur love for the gtst roy

ur a one in a million champ. and id love to see ur gtst on the track, would be interesting to see

and im sure uve handed alot of gtr owners theyre ass

but the gtr is still king of the street and track

253kw std turbo gtr vs td06 (which isnt a small turbo) rb20.. nice work... throw a gt35r on the gtr and see how that goes

or even just N1 turbos... factory upgrade and see how u go

[Roy]

And you are right, but the thread title is " Gtr Vs Gtst Huge Difference In Performance?, Is the GTR that much better than the GTST? "

So my answer is depends on the two particular examples you want to compare. The GTR is better, but GTSt isnt exactly a flawed car and has its own merits which means its often the mods each car has that speaks volumes. But most of the time the GTR is the better bet if you can find the cash

[BHDave]

I dunno, i reckon the guys trying to say a quick gtst is an expensive thing are kidding themselves. With an 8-10k difference in purchase price between a 32gtr and a 32gtst (and thats the smallest margin before anyone gets antsy about the thread starter asking about 33's) thats a lot of go fast bits before you are at the same dollars.

Yes, i agree the gtr is the better car, it's the flag ship of the skylines. But we weren't asked which was the better car....

In terms of performance i think the extra money in your pocket (which could be spent on a bit more power, a bit more suspension and a hell of a nice set of tyres) would point you straight to the GTSt as 8-10k spent wisely on one would make it a lot quicker than a 20 odd k gtr. With a 33gtst you have the 25 to start with, even better, and around 15k to play with.

but we all know teh gtr can nevar lose.....

[some_cs_student]

Hey Guys,

Just Wondering if the Gtr is Really that much better than the GTST? Ive herd you can do the 25 to outrun the 26 which I dont believe but maybe their is a GOD out their! Some of you think this is a stupid question but I would just like to know other peoples thoughts! Who know's It may well be close to the GTR's performance!

A pretty ambiguous question, if they're both stock of course the GTR wins.

Its like comparing the sports version of a car to the standard version, what a surprise

Hmmm, will the clubsport be faster than the normal commodore with a few mods?

If you had a budget of 30K including all mods and you wanted one car to be faster than the other, than the GTST will probably win because you bought it so much cheaper and you have much more $$$ to spend on it.

But whats your aim? Winning a drag race? Track race?

Anyway, personally I went for a GTR

[Tomei_33]

I dunno, i reckon the guys trying to say a quick gtst is an expensive thing are kidding themselves. With an 8-10k difference in purchase price between a 32gtr and a 32gtst (and thats the smallest margin before anyone gets antsy about the thread starter asking about 33's) thats a lot of go fast bits before you are at the same dollars.

Yes, i agree the gtr is the better car, it's the flag ship of the skylines. But we weren't asked which was the better car....

In terms of performance i think the extra money in your pocket (which could be spent on a bit more power, a bit more suspension and a hell of a nice set of tyres) would point you straight to the GTSt as 8-10k spent wisely on one would make it a lot quicker than a 20 odd k gtr. With a 33gtst you have the 25 to start with, even better, and around 15k to play with.

but we all know teh gtr can nevar lose.....

The question isn't "which should i buy with XX amount of money" - its asking which car is better, doesnt matter how much they cost, so if u can have a gtr for free or a gtst for free, which is better.. then u can start added mods on from there

[chris_r31]

u want to buy a factory car, then gtr wins hands down..

you got a budget and a kw goal you want to reach then gtst should do that...

if you started this thread to see how many people would argue that gtst is better blah blah blah , when we all no there not, then you have done well..

but if you want a gtst, go for the 32, they look, drive, rev, smell, better than the turbo vn commodore r33..

for the love of god, R32 GTST..

lets see how many times my reply gets quoted.?????

[kevind]

we dont wanna beat eachother up, both cars are as good as eachother in their different ways...

they still kick arse against commodores & falcons when we want them to! haha

[Travis Trayhern]

lets hope ya not racing any later model commonwhores or falcons in a 32 gtst now oh and do you know how much money would have to be spent on a 32 gtst to get it up to boggie 7-10k woundnt get you far at all mate i can tell u now once you get to 250kw and wanna abuse it well drive it how you should ya going to be breaking everything gbox diff, internals, need head wk gee the list goes on 10k might get you a 270kw reliable (can drive it hard) with-out the fancy wheels and race seats and suspension so on...........so

$9k r32 gtst + $10k = 270kw

$19k r32 gtr + $2k = 270kw

for the extra $2k i know what ill have

[rev210]

the gtst can be competitive on a tight budget however if you can afford to own and run the GTR, it will always give you more overall as a package that is always a better road going friend for half the year (winter).

If you have the 'choice' the GTR is much nicer to drive every day, nothing wrong with the gtst variants however if you can't quite afford one.

[Travis Trayhern]

yes there is a big difference. look at this list off the top of my head.

GTR, better engine both stock and potential wise

GTR better brakes

GTR better suspension

GTR better diff (2 way LSD vs viscous rubbish)

GTR better body (light alluminium panels, big flared guards, tough look)

GTR better wheels

GTR better seats

GTR better interior trim

GTR better intercooler

GTR bigger injectors

dose someone want to put a price next to these things and see what they add up to? i dont thing ya going to have much change from 8-10k

By all means if you just want a fast car on a budget get the gtst but dont go chaseing power, save the extra and get the gtr its not also going to save you money after hours of modifications but when it come to resell you can get a fair chuch of ya money back.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Travis Trayhern

[Roy]

lets hope ya not racing any later model commonwhores or falcons in a 32 gtst now oh and do you know how much money would have to be spent on a 32 gtst to get it up to boggie 7-10k woundnt get you far at all mate i can tell u now once you get to 250kw and wanna abuse it well drive it how you should ya going to be breaking everything gbox diff, internals, need head wk gee the list goes on 10k might get you a 270kw reliable (can drive it hard) with-out the fancy wheels and race seats and suspension so on...........so

$9k r32 gtst + $10k = 270kw

$19k r32 gtr + $2k = 270kw

for the extra $2k i know what ill have

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but i have to disagree on the facts you are stating. There are plenty of RB20s making between 250-300rwkws all on completely std bottom ends, most with std cams and inlet manifolds as well. And guess what, std head as well. The gearbox is a fair call, but by no means is it a certainty. I have tracked my car since when i bought it 8yrs ago. My std RB20 gearbox has done 195,000kms, the last 45,000kms of it with between 230-260rwkws. Including drag runs, drift days, plenty of track days and motorkhanas and two Dutton Rallys. The secret is to use good fluid, those that i know use good fluid seem to have more success with getting them to live. But they are nowhere near as strong as other RB hearboxes, but behind an RB20 which are not that strong torque wise then they are often fine.

And knowing what i know now i could build a quicker and more powerful car then mine for 10k tuned. That includes doing the bolt on work myself, but not diff and clutch because for its pretty cheap to get others to install and head fark at home without proper tools.

So not saying the GTSt is better. Just giving real life feedback...and people that have seen me at the track would not accuse me of taking it easy, it sees plenty of revs and limiter and boost