What Do You People Know About This E85 Fuel ?

[Redback]

so when the "Proper" Launch australia wide.. more inportantly Melbourne

[NYTSKY]

Ill be sticking to Shell/BP 98 for the moment. Wouldnt like to take a gamble just so i could save $10 on a tank of fuel.

[Guilt-Toy]

got any info and results and mix's they are running?

Some of the local drag racers around my part of the States have been doing it for about a year or so.

[madbung]

Add some chicken stock and your exhaust will smell like chicken and corn soup...now who doesn't like chicken and corn soup in the middle of winter?

[Beer Baron]

If your running .98's on cruise and .78's on WOT thats not that much of a difference to PULP, in AFR terms he is running about 11.466 on WOT, some people like to tune their cars to that with PULP. (my 363rwkw tune was at 11.1 afr)

and thats about 14.4 afr on cruise.... Thats not a huge difference at all, and would bring major benifits to fuel economy.

This sounds interesting... should go for a 20 or 30 % mix could we mix the stuff ourselfs?

he said 9.8 and 7.8 as in 9.8:1 not .98 lambda. that is a big difference from conventional fuels.

[jdmser]

got any info and results and mix's they are running?

Here's a quote from a well known local tuner in reference to E85 "I love using alcohol on boosted applications. You can crank out an additional 10-14 more degrees of timing, and at an average of 7-10 rwhp per degree of timing, it adds up fast.". From what I've heard around here adding 1 gallon of E85 to a tank of 93 pump gas gets you somewhere around 95 or 96 octane and can help lean out a rich tune. I would imagine that's good for a degree or two. Most of the guys doing around here are either 03 Corbras or LSx F-bodies with superchargers, turbos, or big nitrous setups.

Edited June 27, 2008 by jdmser

[B. J.]

Personally for the everyday driver I wouldnt go filling my car with a whole tank of the stuff, when they ran the report on it (in NSW) there was some old blokes filling his EB falcon saying "its great!" I'd like to see how long they really do last (ie rubber seals, hoses and so on) but as mentioned above, 1/4 of a tank in with the normal stuff (92 or 95) and good tune I think it would be worth-while.

[colossus]

In terms of clearing land (deforestation), the following erosion, intensive water use ect. ethanol is not the environmetal solution to burning petroleum...so dont think its helping the environment at all...

Also no-one has mentioned the calorfic value of E85 vs petrol.

[180or200]

he said 9.8 and 7.8 as in 9.8:1 not .98 lambda. that is a big difference from conventional fuels.

yeh converting to afr can get confusing, lambda is the best way to tune i guess, from what i've read in the US .8 lambda is around the money.

dont use it without tuneing for it, it burns very lean, it's alot lighter fuel, if you have WOT tuned to 12.1 it will most likely lean out to 14-16.1,

closed loop can handle it but you wouldnt want to gas it!

Is a little harder to start when cold, trying different cranking duty atm to see if that helps, when warm it's fine, runs smoother i think, feels crisp to drive, definately more torque down low, can use less throttle opening, i guess that helps reduce the fuel usage, offset the extra its burning.

I havn't pushed the timeing yet, it just wont knock and i dont wanna go too far, will need to dyno it to find max torque!

youtube has a few good vids on this stuff, try google "e85 tuneing", people useing E85 cant say enough good about it, i wonder how many dooms-dayers are confuseing it with methanol!

[discopotato03]

I reserve judgement on the damage done to this rock and its atmosphere by tapping and burning petroleum fuels .

Also it's about time we stopped being walked all over by the oil producing countries a long way away across the worlds shipping lanes . Make it here , sell it here , burn it here . As for lube oils any excuse to push synthetic products is all good IMO .

I think that getting used to alcohols different AFR numbers may take a bit of time just like anything we're unaccustom to .

I really like the sound of the higher ethanol blends detonation resistance , usually it's difficult to run best mean torque timing because of detonation . Maybe finally we could run higher static CR's on forced induced engines and fire the mixture when the pressure wave will do the most good torque wise .

One would think that if ethanol has a lower boiling point than petrol it would have a better cooling action as it turns from a mist to a gas in the inlet tract .

Does anyone know much about the conversion kits that allow production engines to burn E85 or similar properly ?

Cheers , A .

[Guilt-Toy]

so 15% can change it that much ??? I guess that would have to be something i would have to test for myself as i cannot see how it would change that much with just a 15% mix.

he said 9.8 and 7.8 as in 9.8:1 not .98 lambda. that is a big difference from conventional fuels.

[madbung]

^^ I believe we are talking 15% petroleum 85% ethanol?

e(ethanol)85

Edited June 27, 2008 by madbung

[Guilt-Toy]

hahahhaaa!! Thats just crazy!

what a rip!!!

Sif pay that much per litre when you have close to double the consumption.

You would go backwards unless its tuned properly.

[R31Nismoid]

Ah actually Nismoid yes it is , in Sydney I believe its at a United servo on Victoria rd - maybe Ultimo ?

I think part of what's brought it on is that Saab ? and one other mobs is starting to sell cars that can run it so they need fodder for them .

Anyway they've decided to sell it through one location I think in Syd/Melb/Adelaide to gauge the publics reaction to it .

It was in the media last week with a bit of fan fare because some people are prepared to risk engine "issues" to pay 40c less a litre than the usual cheapest grade "power kerosene" .

Ah well there ya go

I remember a mate talking about it the other day and i dont think Vic is ready yet? But its not too far away or something

[tridentt150v]

Bring on the dyno queens..........

The biggest negative is you have to tune for it, that would likely mean that you can no longer use PULP, or if you do then very very cautiously [but with over 5 degree's and maybe much larger I'd say that its a big negatory].

So you would be limited to a few specialised servo's in Metro area's. If you wanted to use your car to go across country, you'd have no hope.....................but in the year 2525 who knows?

[Johnny]

Ah actually Nismoid yes it is , in Sydney I believe its at a United servo on Victoria rd - maybe Ultimo ?

I think part of what's brought it on is that Saab ? and one other mobs is starting to sell cars that can run it so they need fodder for them .

Anyway they've decided to sell it through one location I think in Syd/Melb/Adelaide to gauge the publics reaction to it .

It was in the media last week with a bit of fan fare because some people are prepared to risk engine "issues" to pay 40c less a litre than the usual cheapest grade "power kerosene" .

Metho is a bit different and from memory it's full name is methyl alcohol .

Yes I realise more ethanol has to be burnt to get the same heat output as petroleum fuels but the other benefits I find most interesting .

Ethanol not being a carbon based fuel probably means almost none of the emission nazis nastys to complain about and I suppose not having carbon buildup in an engine is not a bad thing .

I guess you have to wonder if valve seats and valve stem/guides are going to suffer in any way .

Also alcohol not being a solvent may not have the same bore washing tendancy of over rich petrol fuel mixtures .

Rev head issues aside I don't think we have quite the same problems with food and sugar here in Australia thay they have in some less fortunate places .

My guess is that the sugar cane industry here would like the opportunity to be able to produce in volume that which can be made into ethanol alcohol . Possibly the wages earnt would help local economies here - create jobs etc etc .

Personally I think Aussies probably eat too much sugar but thats only my selfish 7-10 kg overweight point of view .

The stuff you breathe in sinn city is not good on a still day so less of that can't be bad .

A bit less reliance on imported crude oil/fuels could have some positive benefits on the world stage .

The thing to watch is the overall establishment and how they may choose to tax ethanol if it takes off . I'm cynical and its debatable whether they'd let slip the opprtunity to maintain fuel tax revenues .

If I get the chance later I'll ask on some of the American boards what they think of E85 , I seem to remember it being mentioned on one ov the Evo ones there .

Cheers A .

jst to clarify that ethanol is a carbon based fuel, a simple version with 2 units which still when combusted releases energy from the broken linking chain but because it is simple, it will produce less kilojoules per litre then 98oct etc.

CH-CH

ALL fuels produce carbon emissions

metho is ethanol but they add methanol to it to prevent it being taxed in the same class as drinkable alcohol (spirits etc)

methanol is toxic to humans, specifically to haemological and vascular system.

they found that aboriginals were buying methylated spirits at 10bux for 5litres as opposed to vodka etc at 30-50bux for 750mls

[BHDave]

just like 100 octane shell v power racing, it's limited by it's availability.

So i won't use it for exactly the same reasons.

It could promise the earth, but it doesn't matter if i can't get the shit.

Now if there was a servo with a regular supply next to my house, wakefield park, oran park and eastern creek i reckon i'd give it a go

[noone]

great fuel though, although we use more we have less dependance on the terrorist.

it is quite pure and will not contain the extra toxins that fossil fuel contain from crude oil therefore if we plant more trees and crops to make the fuel they will require the extra CO2 for photosynthesis = synthesis of sugar CHO removing the carbon and leaving only oxygen.

unfortunately we dont have enough space to grow enough crops to supply the whole auto industry but the good thing is we can probably get african crops imported for the fuel.

this is beneficial to keep african populations under control, similar to cancerous cells and parasites which continue to leech nutrients from its host the african population would explode if there was not food shortages, diseases like tuberculosis, HIV and other water/airborne pathogens to keep populations at homeostatic levels.

Bit arsh!!

[discopotato03]

I was talking to someone last night about burning ethanol and emissions and one thing we can't escape is the nitrogen in the air we breathe . High combustion temps tend to lead to NO or oxides of nitrogen emissions (don't confuse this with Nitrous Oxide or N20) and also Nitric Acid which I think is HN03 , not quite as corrosive as Sulphuric Acid but no far behind .

It's the free nitrogen in the atmosphere that's gonna cause problems with whatever we burn in our engines .

I'd still like to know how Weber Marelli managed to make (in theory) an engine management system that could supposedly run any ratio of petrol ethanol blend and not suffer any engine damage .

A .

[discopotato03]

Ah well I guess we're back to limiting combustion temperature to have a handle on the NO pumped out .

I wonder if some smart cookie can come up with some sort of catalyst or fuel additive to get around it .

Cheers A .

Be nice to have a fuel that doesn't know how to knock and is Dolphin friendly too .