The Battle For Japanese Supercar Stardom Begins Anew

[m3gtr]

The NSX has never been a flop - just ask Senna...well, when he was around that is...

[Marlin]

The NSX wasn't a flop, it just never appealed to people who favoured horsepower over everything else.

[GTS4WD]

Hence.. no one bought it..

In the marketing eyes.. a product that does not sell is a "flop"

[eMsta]

electric cars ftw!!!

[m3gtr]

Hence.. no one bought it..

In the marketing eyes.. a product that does not sell is a "flop"

Flawed rationale. Qualify your statement about noone buying it with some numbers.

The NSX has been bought by hundreds of thousands of people all across the globe.

It is not flawed nor a flop - it was always designed to be a surgical tool and Honda have never developed cars for brute strength plus Honda has been in F1 since i was a boy and perhaps you forgot the 1000hp engines they developed for those things...

Nuf said.

kthnxbai.

[tridentt150v]

And nearly every report on the NSX I've ever read says "Excellent handling and ride, if only the motor had more power"

It is fair to say that as an overall package it underachieved the potential it was capable of.

[m3gtr]

And nearly every report on the NSX I've ever read says "Excellent handling and ride, if only the motor had more power"

It is fair to say that as an overall package it underachieved the potential it was capable of.

There was such a thing as the "gentlemans agreement" in place if you remember when the car was conceptualized?

Capping virtually everything at 280ps, or around 210 kw. Toe to toe and in standard trim, the NSX would keep up with and possibly be ahead of the GTR on any given circuit in the world and definitely streets ahead on others.

Power isnt everything.

Although, I do seem to recall some monster numbers made from the NSX with superchargers, turbo and twin turbo setups.

[tridentt150v]

I know about the gentlemens agreement, it was a white lie from the start. Thye claimed 206 for the GTR/evo/sti and they always tested a bit higher. maybe pops Honda was the only true gentleman...lol.

Yes, I've seen them with FI, and they do 'complete' the package by all reports. I wouldn't compare the NSX with the GTR personally. One is a tweo seater sports car, and the other is a 4 seater sports tourer. Although many compare them, they are miles apart in concept imo.

[Bumblebee]

trident is pretty much spot on..

this bullshit about its always been nsx vs gtr vs supra is just bullshit.

supra was designed to destroy the american "muscle" cars.... the NSX was japans ferarri designed to tackle the exotics which it did nicely even thou it was under powered

and the gtr was purely designed to destroy its opposition on the track whoever was game enough to jump in the ring with it...

in my eyes, GTR reigns king BUT the supra has the toughest motor out, and honda.. well.. hondas speak for themselves

theyve proven time and time again how fast they can be and theyre ultra reliable... never had a problem with my 280,000km track thrashed, 2000rpm over the redline civic. ever..

my skyline on the other hand.. doesnt have a motor in it

[m3gtr]

trident is pretty much spot on..

this bullshit about its always been nsx vs gtr vs supra is just bullshit.

supra was designed to destroy the american "muscle" cars.... the NSX was japans ferarri designed to tackle the exotics which it did nicely even thou it was under powered

and the gtr was purely designed to destroy its opposition on the track whoever was game enough to jump in the ring with it...

in my eyes, GTR reigns king BUT the supra has the toughest motor out, and honda.. well.. hondas speak for themselves

theyve proven time and time again how fast they can be and theyre ultra reliable... never had a problem with my 280,000km track thrashed, 2000rpm over the redline civic. ever..

my skyline on the other hand.. doesnt have a motor in it

Dude, listen. In the Super GT series, what cars do you think went head to head as natural born enemies on the track for over a decade?

The GTR, the NSX and the Supra which is now the 430C. This will soon change to the LFA, New gen NSX and the R35.

The comparo was always there and if i remember correctly, the NSX won the championship a few times?

Lol, comparing your civic and gtr to what is in focus here in this discussion is like bringing a knife to a gunfight, for lack of beter use of an analogy.

Listen to the facts. The NSX won the GT 500 championship in 2000, 2002 and even last year in 2007.

So much for the old timer label you argue for, lol.

Still bullshit, is it?

[m3gtr]

Why Im having to defend, yet again, something that has been proven a winner against everything, time and time again, is a mystery to me.

[Bumblebee]

LOL

i love how u throw in the JGTC into it.. what makes u think those cars are ANYTHING like that street cars??? lol

those are shells that look like street cars. thats it. nothing else is the same

So just like u said.. knife to a gunfight

[Bumblebee]

if u wanna talk facts

lets talk about production car racing.. ur beloved NSX never won it

neither did the supra.. the gtr did thou.. winning what.. 29 outta 29 starts??? got banned frmo Production car racing???

did the nsx get banned? no.. did it ever win a production car race?? no..

maybe u should listen to facts

[m3gtr]

In fact its been a raging all out rivalry since the GT500 class was conceptualized in 1996. Yes, Nissan had the upper hand on count but blows were landed heavily by Toyota and Honda on many occasions where they took out the heavy weight division.

1996 - McLaren F1 ( we wont count that one, lol! )

1997 - TOM'S Supra

1998 - Pennzoil R33

1999 - Pennzoil R34

2000 - Castrol NSX

2001 - Xanavi R34

2002 - Dome NSX

2003 - Xanavi R34

2004 - Xanavi Z33

2005 - Xanavi Z33 ( trifecta for Nissan albeit one that was made with different cars )

2006 - TOM's SC430

2007 - Autobacs NSX

2008 - ??

As you can plainly see, theres been a pretty fierce rivalry between the cars and makers going back more than a decade.

As i originally stated, the battle will heat up again when all these beasts shake out on the track very soon.

I for one cant wait!

[m3gtr]

if u wanna talk facts

lets talk about production car racing.. ur beloved NSX never won it

neither did the supra.. the gtr did thou.. winning what.. 29 outta 29 starts??? got banned frmo Production car racing???

did the nsx get banned? no.. did it ever win a production car race?? no..

maybe u should listen to facts

Dude, cmon. Im trying to be impartial here. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Comparing a GT car to a street car is worthless because whether you will admit it or not, when the cars are put on even playing fields with parity as a focus, there is no clear winner.

Can you not see that>?>??

[Bumblebee]

omg.. dude those cars are not the same cars

a gtr doesnt run a 4.5lt v8..

nsxs dont run turbos and supras dont use v8s either

dont compare jgtc cars to the real things... those r racing cars that have NOTHING in common with the street cars

nothing at all.

If u wanna talk races talk about production car racing. nothing else

those r real cars tweaked to race..

the GTR killed production car racing because it always one... read on

The Skyline GT-R soon earned the name Godzilla, for its track performance. The R32 GT-R dominated JTCC, winning 29 races from 29 starts, taking the series title every year from 1989-1993. It took 50 races from 50 starts from 1991-1997 (latterly R33) in the N1 Super Taikyu. The GT-R's success sounded the death knell of Group A Touring Car racing; with the formula being scrapped soon after. JTCC was similarly blighted by the R32 GT-R, and splintered soon after, leading to the switch to the Supertouring category and also indirectly to the GT500 category of today.

They were never going to in the same class because they have different reasons to be built.. like i said

NSX = first jap supercar designed to go against euro exotics...

Supra = american muscle destroyer

GTR= track warrior

Edited July 1, 2008 by Bumblebee

[Bumblebee]

BUT u are in one way correct....

mr honda said the new nsx isnt going to be released until it spanks the new GTR

thats direct comparison right there

i dunno about toyota sayin they wanted it to spank the gtr thou... im sure they were going straight to the top of exotic car kingdom

[m3gtr]

omg.. dude those cars are not the same cars

a gtr doesnt run a 4.5lt v8..

nsxs dont run turbos and supras dont use v8s either

dont compare jgtc cars to the real things... those r racing cars that have NOTHING in common with the street cars

nothing at all.

If u wanna talk races talk about production car racing. nothing else

those r real cars tweaked to race..

the GTR killed production car racing because it always one... read on

The Skyline GT-R soon earned the name Godzilla, for its track performance. The R32 GT-R dominated JTCC, winning 29 races from 29 starts, taking the series title every year from 1989-1993. It took 50 races from 50 starts from 1991-1997 (latterly R33) in the N1 Super Taikyu. The GT-R's success sounded the death knell of Group A Touring Car racing; with the formula being scrapped soon after. JTCC was similarly blighted by the R32 GT-R, and splintered soon after, leading to the switch to the Supertouring category and also indirectly to the GT500 category of today.

They were never going to in the same class because they have different reasons to be built.. like i said

NSX = first jap supercar designed to go against euro exotics...

Supra = american muscle destroyer

GTR= track warrior

Everyones entitled to their own opinion. The fact remains and again whether or not you will acknowledge this, is that these 3 brands have been trading punches for decades. I never claimed that one was better than the other - i merely stated that there will be another Japanese showdown in the years to come to rival the biggest fights of the 90's. On that you can count.

It may have been ridiculous of me to bring up GT500 cars, but no worse than you bringing up your cars.

If you read the title, it says "showdown" and in that i meant the 3 MARQUES going at it once again, engine displacement, power or history aside.

I couldnt give a rats what powers the thing - It can be argued the cars are essentially the same thing with improvements. For you to insinuate the cars have nothing to do with street cars shows some bias.

[skyline_man]

m3gtr, you really need to get your facts right before you start to say how superior the Honda NSX is to the GTR. First of all, the Japanese GT500 race cars are nothing like the road cars! The only thing they have in common with the real road cars are the shell and the brand name. That's it. And whenever a particular team wins a race, they get a weight penalty for the next race to make it more competitive.

Honda's IMHO are overpriced and are very good at ripping off the uneducated car buyers with their marketing strategies. They advertise their cars as "Formula 1 inspired" but you look at their line up today and you won't find a single Honda that is rear wheel drive, has paddle shifters and is at least 6 cylinders. All of their so called "formula 1 inspired" performance cars are 4 cylinder, front wheel drive, underpowered and under torque POS. What happened to the "Formula 1 inspired"?

Besides, Honda is doing really crap in Formula 1 right now.

Honda's philosophy since the early 80's was that they will never use turbo charging in their road cars, because back then turbo charged cars were unreliable. I wonder if this philosophy of theirs is going to come back and bite them.

Nissan on the other hand are the "silent achievers" and when it comes to their top model sports car - they are unmatched. If it wasn't for the gentlemans agreement - the R33 and R34 GTR's would've simply destroy the competition.

Edited July 1, 2008 by skyline_man

[Bumblebee]

finally someone who agrees with me lol

cept the shells have nothing to do with the road cars lol

just the names and basic shape

Edited July 1, 2008 by Bumblebee