Help Me Upgrade R33 Gtr

[R33-RB26DETT]

Hi Guys,

Recently i have decided that current power is not enough(around 230awkw).

I would like to get my car in decent condition so that i can prepare for track days and also have a reliable daily road car.

My aim is to have around 320awkw + still be responsive.

This is what i am thinking of doing:

-HKS 2530 Second Hand turbos's - $2000

-Apexi Power FC - $800

-Nismo 600cc Injectros - $600

-Heavy duty 5 puk clutch (for drivabilty) - $700

-Z32 AFM's - $400

-EBC Profec B II -$300

All this plus tune i am looking at $5200. so i am budgeting for $6000 all up.

Now the biggest question is should i go for

Garrett GT2560R GTR 320hp ball bearing turbo (Brand New around $2400 - without kit)

OR

HKS 2530's - $2000 (Second hand without kit)

What would be better for my power figure and response goals?

Also how much should i expect to pay for a kit to install these turbo's(i.e pipes flanges etc) ~ around $400??

=> My mechnanic quoted me $700 to install the turbos, does that sound right?

Thanks,

Harry

Edited June 28, 2008 by GTR-PWR

[im late]

Hi Harry,

Your component selcection is quite good for 300 - 320AWKW

-HKS 2530 Second Hand turbos's - $2000 - My opinion HKS GTSS Twin Turbo Kit. Around $2600 new; is the best combination of response and power for this power range and a direct bolt-on with all the required plumbing and fitting components included in the kit from HKS.

-Apexi Power FC - $800 - Yes.

-Nismo 600cc Injectros - $600 - I reckon 700cc instead. Not a big price difference but more ceiling for the future.

-Heavy duty 5 puk clutch (for drivabilty) - $700 - Optional. Not needed for the target figure.

-Z32 AFM's - $400 - Optional. Not really needed for the target figure you are after. But get it if the budget allows.

-EBC Profec B II -$300 - Good to have.

These you need in addition to above for a reliable setup:

-Upgrade your fuel pump (nismo intank or Bosch 040 fitted)

-Fuel pressure regulator (some poeple will say not needed. I say for less than $200 you have a better unit than factory, plus you factory is very old by now).

Factory items you can stick with for the target power figure you are after:

-Factory manifolds

-Factory cat and exhaust

-Factory air box.

-Factory cams and cam gears

The above items do not give you a big performance difference for the price you pay for them. I would say the only one which is quite nice to have is a full exhaust from the turbos back. Don't cut corners if you decide to go with an exhaust upgrade.

Hope this helps.

Edited June 28, 2008 by im late

[R33-RB26DETT]

Thanks for the advise, i forgot to mention that i have already completed the below mods:

-Full exhuast system turbo back.

-Apexi Pods Filters (although thinking of going back to stock box)

Forgot about the fuel pump! I never heard of needing to upgrade the "Fuel pressure regulator".

So you think i should go the HKS GTSS Twin Turbo Kit, why is it more responsive?

[Mr. Keets]

Hi Harry,

Your component selcection is quite good for 300 - 320AWKW...

Factory items you can stick with for the target power figure you are after:

-Factory manifolds

-Factory cat and exhaust

-Factory air box.

-Factory cams and cam gears

I'd have to disagree with you on a few points.

Factory cam gears and factory exhaust...would have to go. You will need front pipes and dumps and cam gears on top of the exhaust you have

You could go with the GT-SS's but your not leaving yourself much room for more power. 2860R-5 or what ever you want to call the Garrett 2530 is a good move for the power target beyond that. You will sacrifice some response.

This is what I did

PFC

EBC

New fuel pump

Front pipes, dumps, exhaust

Apexi pods

Cam gears

680cc injectors

FPR

2860R-5 turbos

New coils

Oil cooler

HKS Twin Plate

320 RWKW

oh and the original question...both turbos are virtually the same so i'd go the new ones

[R33-RB26DETT]

Mr. Keets, Nice power! gotta be happy with that mate.

Did you bother upgrading your AFM's?

Still confused as to the difference between | Garrett 2860R-5 | vs | HKS 2530's | Google search yields nothing either.

[R31Nismoid]

Yup, you've got the wrong turbos mate

320awkw is HKS GT-SS/Garrett 2560 -7

HKS 2530/Garrett 2560 -5 = 380awkw turbos

GT-SS is response like stock, power of a bit over 300.

2530 is a bit of lag and less response, for easily another 50rwkw peak

[R33-RB26DETT]

Okay, thanks for clarifying this - i know have a better idea which turbos will suit my application.

I just hope that i dont get too bored of 320awkw's

Never been in a 320awkw car, but i assume it would put a smirk on your face.. I guess ill just have to do it and see how i go..

[Mr. Keets]

Mr. Keets, Nice power! gotta be happy with that mate.

Did you bother upgrading your AFM's?

Still confused as to the difference between | Garrett 2860R-5 | vs | HKS 2530's | Google search yields nothing either.

Thanks and yes l am although better resposne would be nice...hence the stroker plan

No haven't bothered...I will leave the HP alone until the stroker kit and then go D-Jetro

Okay, thanks for clarifying this - i know have a better idea which turbos will suit my application.

I just hope that i don't get too bored of 320awkw's

Never been in a 320awkw car, but i assume it would put a smirk on your face.. I guess ill just have to do it and see how i go..

You might but I doubt it...yes guaranteed to put a smile on your dial but like anything, you get used to it. Remember the more HP you have the more other parts will break or prematurely wear out. To further clarify, Garrett 2860-5 (catalogue name), Garrett 2560-5(stamped on turbo) and HKS2530...virtually identical turbo's and as R31Nismoid said -7 = GT-SS.

[R31Nismoid]

Okay, thanks for clarifying this - i know have a better idea which turbos will suit my application.

I just hope that i dont get too bored of 320awkw's

Never been in a 320awkw car, but i assume it would put a smirk on your face.. I guess ill just have to do it and see how i go..

Mate for a street car, its that responsive its ridiculous. My car feels like its a 3.5ltr N/A... so much nicer than my RB25 setup, but similar expected power... so thats saying a fair bit

[Tomek]

Okay, thanks for clarifying this - i know have a better idea which turbos will suit my application.

I just hope that i dont get too bored of 320awkw's

Never been in a 320awkw car, but i assume it would put a smirk on your face.. I guess ill just have to do it and see how i go..

hahaha, never been in a 320kw car (been in 400+ but can't remember much, was too busy shitting myself) so please keep buttering me up.. Been 3 month's that I've had these -7's in my garage need some motivation

[BoostdR]

Since I have used both

HKS2530's will make 370-380rwkw

GT2860R-5 will make 340-360rwkw (better response as the compressor wheel 0.5mm slightly smaller)

When It comes to HKS GTSS or the Garrett version (GT2860R-7) you are mad to pay for the HKS name because that is the ONLY difference. This is why the HKS GTSS's can be had for so much cheaper than the HKS-GTRS or 2530, but they are still 800-$900 more expensive over the Garrett's.

[Bumblebee]

u wuold change the cam gears to make 320awkw keets??

damn ur clueless... i was sittin on 296awkw on the dyno @ 15psi and runnin around 18psi when i got off.. thats over 300awkw

stock cams and stock cam gears and stock dump n front pipes....

stock injectors and fuel pump and regulator.. although things were gettin a lil lean by then. im also running what appears to be stock afms.

i wouldnt go for a 5puk clutch thou.. theyre nasty to drive and they wont like 4wd applications. save extra coin and go for a twin plate

the stock cams n gears r good for well over 320kw.... if u dont think so, look around the dyno thread and see how many ppl r makin close to 400awkw with stock items

Edited June 29, 2008 by Bumblebee

[benm]

If you change turbo's without changing the dump pipes you may as well go headbutt a wall.

[R33-RB26DETT]

yeah its not worth skimping on changing the dump pipes once the turbos are out.

in regards to AFM's and cam gears i would still do them just for saftey purposes, since i dont want my engine leaning out.

[WRRR]

yeah its not worth skimping on changing the dump pipes once the turbos are out.

in regards to AFM's and cam gears i would still do them just for saftey purposes, since i dont want my engine leaning out.

STD AFMs will be marginal (close to the top of the range) for your target. Check it out though as there is a fair bit of cash in new AFMs.

Std cam gears are fine to almost any hp target (they wont break) but they do not allow you fine adjustment of cam timing. Adjustable cam gears will allow you to tweak the cam timing to say fatten up the mid range or get you on boost a little earlier (will depend on how good your tuner is and whether you want to pay for the time).

Std cams seem to be the flavour of the month with some of the track guys. I have stayed with std cams and seem to pick up more mid range and lose a little up top compared to say 260 9.15 cams. I find that is a better compromise as a hp hero doesn't suit my use.

2860-5 and the HKS 2530 is very similar. I believe 2860-5 has a slightly smaller compressor wheel but there is only a poofteenth in it. 2860-5 can be had pretty cheaply brand new if you shop around.

Once you get your extra hp then you will start looking at suspension to really use it all. Welcome to the world of empty wallets. lol.

[Bumblebee]

i didnt do the turbos myself so i have a good excuse to have still ran the stock dumps n fronts lol

otherwise it would be pretty stupid to remove turbos without doin them..

[R33-RB26DETT]

Yeah apparantley they are not that bad anyway on the GTR's, or so i have been told. But its definantley worth it anyway.

Curious as to whether an Excedy Heavy Duty clutch would be able to handle 320awk's?

My mate says that it should last at least 3 years. Would be good to get some opinions on this matter. Cheers Guys.

[R31Nismoid]

When It comes to HKS GTSS or the Garrett version (GT2860R-7) you are mad to pay for the HKS name because that is the ONLY difference. This is why the HKS GTSS's can be had for so much cheaper than the HKS-GTRS or 2530, but they are still 800-$900 more expensive over the Garrett's.

Its closer to about $500-600, plus you get all the gaskets, washers etc with the kit.

Something you dont get with 'just' the garretts in a box, hence a different price also

[R338OY]

If you change turbo's without changing the dump pipes you may as well go headbutt a wall.

Gets my vote for best post of the thread

IMO when you're making big power you should think hard about skimping on things like dumps, AFMs and reg. It doesn't hurt to give your setup some headroom and reliability over the long-term.

You're being pre-emptive about getting 'over' 320awkw quickly. After i shat myself, the 375rwkw R32 gtst i sat in the other week, with zero traction, makes me think 320kw with AWD in your car will be a really responsive and punchy setup.

I suppose cams and gears might be a future mod you'd choose to squeeze some more kW out if you're getting bored.

[Rowdyr32]

Lots of cars in Vic are making just under 350awkw arm with stock dumps. I personally believe that the dumps that redirect the gasses at 90degrees into the dump pipe 15cm down are a shit design. Go one large dia dump each turbo.

As for afm's I have been told you can tune around stock afm's when they are maxed out over 260kw. If you stay stock afm's you get better tuning at light throttle/boost etc where the z32 don't give the resolution. One guy Ferni on here makes 330ish with gtss's and a fuel reg w/stock inj.

Just my 2 cents