M35: 2.5l Turbo Or 3.5l N/a? Pros & Cons

[sven laptop]

Can anyone who's driven both tell me the pros & cons of the 2.5 litre V6 turbo as against the 3.5 litre naturally aspirated engine in a Stagea?

I know the 3.5 won a bunch of awards a few years ago as one of the best engines going around, but I haven't heard much about the 2.5 turbo.

Also, how do they stack up against each other in terms of fuel economy?

And final question: Is the 3.5 available in a Stagea model with the CVT transmission out of the Skyline 350GT?

Hope someone can help.

Cheers - Sven.

[Jetwreck]

Can anyone who's driven both tell me the pros & cons of the 2.5 litre V6 turbo as against the 3.5 litre naturally aspirated engine in a Stagea?

I know the 3.5 won a bunch of awards a few years ago as one of the best engines going around, but I haven't heard much about the 2.5 turbo.

Also, how do they stack up against each other in terms of fuel economy?

And final question: Is the 3.5 available in a Stagea model with the CVT transmission out of the Skyline 350GT?

Hope someone can help.

Cheers - Sven.

The 3.5 litre naturally aspirated produces the same amount of HP as the 2.5 litre V6 turbo but the torque is much better on the turbo. Also if you are in OZ you cannot get compliance yet for the 3.5 litre naturally aspirated. If you into getting mods done the 2.5 litre V6 turbo is the better choice. And no the Stagea does not come with the same 8 speed transmission....wish it did!!

[sven laptop]

The 3.5 litre naturally aspirated produces the same amount of HP as the 2.5 litre V6 turbo but the torque is much better on the turbo. Also if you are in OZ you cannot get compliance yet for the 3.5 litre naturally aspirated. If you into getting mods done the 2.5 litre V6 turbo is the better choice. And no the Stagea does not come with the same 8 speed transmission....wish it did!!

Thanks for the response, but I've seen the figures; what I really want to know is how they drive.

The turbo might have more torque, but if it comes 3,000 revs higher up the range it's not much use to most drivers most of the time.

So if anyone can give me their own impressions from driving both, I'd be very interested.

[andy65b]

Thanks for the response, but I've seen the figures; what I really want to know is how they drive.

The turbo might have more torque, but if it comes 3,000 revs higher up the range it's not much use to most drivers most of the time.

So if anyone can give me their own impressions from driving both, I'd be very interested.

I can't comment on the 3.5 N/A motor but the 2.5 turbo has 406nm of torque at 3200 rpm so the motor is very easy to drive with out reving it to the red line.

The only problem you have is even if you like the M35 with the 3.5 N/A I don't think even the pre 2004 models can be complied. The only motor in the M35 that has been complied is the 2.5 turbo.

Cheers

Andy

[sven laptop]

I can't comment on the 3.5 N/A motor but the 2.5 turbo has 406nm of torque at 3200 rpm so the motor is very easy to drive with out reving it to the red line.

The only problem you have is even if you like the M35 with the 3.5 N/A I don't think even the pre 2004 models can be complied. The only motor in the M35 that has been complied is the 2.5 turbo.

Cheers

Andy

Thanks Andy, that's interesting to hear.

I thought the 3.5 couldn't be complied as well (there's a lot been written about it in these forums, I know), but just the other day I enquired about a M35 Stagea with the 3.5 (2004 model) that was up for sale on J-Spec Imports & the bloke there said it definitely CAN be complied.

He reckons he knows of several workshops that have done all the testing (including pollution tests) and are prepared to put it in writing that they can comply those models.

Does anyone here have an update on the situation?

Also any word on fuel economy of both those engines?

[andy65b]

The fuel economy is an interesting discussion. I get around 7.2-7.5 km/l on city (sydney) driving and around 10km/l on highway. Most M35 drivers I have spoken to get similar but there are also some M35 drivers getting in the 9km/l or better in their daily driving. Wish I knew how they get it?

Cheers

Andy

[Chris Rogers]

may I suggest looking the car in question up on the sevs register. to my knowledge it doesn't comply.

[ssshonky]

cons for the N/A motor- you dont get farken WHOOOSH !

[MagnaRacer]

Just confirmed with JSpec that no-one has done the ADR tests yet for a M35 3.5lt V6

Though they say it could be done easily (as the V35 3.5lt 2004+ has been done and at worst could use the V35 cat converter), but someone has to be the first to buy one and get it happening.

As much as I'd love one, buying an import is risky enough so I'll wait for someone else braver than I.

[pixel8r]

Just confirmed with JSpec that no-one has done the ADR tests yet for a M35 3.5lt V6

Though they say it could be done easily (as the V35 3.5lt 2004+ has been done and at worst could use the V35 cat converter), but someone has to be the first to buy one and get it happening.

As much as I'd love one, buying an import is risky enough so I'll wait for someone else braver than I.

There are at least 2 members on this forum who could shed some light on just how "easily" it can (or CANT) be done!!

Until someone confirms that one has ACTUALLY been complied, DONT GET ONE. Its too easy for them to back away afterwards if it doesn't work, leaving you with a $25000+ (guessing) car that cant be legally driven on the road.

Personally the 2.5L turbo model would be more attractive to me anyway.

It would build its torque slightly later but if the S2 I previously owned was any indication, the turbo starts spooling the second you touch the throttle, even when just cruising around, so it would have plenty of usable torque.

[zei20l]

of all the M35s ive driven then have a huge amount of torque on the bottom, then the top end screams! and throttle response is very fast.

are these drive by wire?? i think they are but havent taken enough notice when inspecting one.

[Chris Rogers]

Just confirmed with JSpec that no-one has done the ADR tests yet for a M35 3.5lt V6

Though they say it could be done easily (as the V35 3.5lt 2004+ has been done and at worst could use the V35 cat converter), but someone has to be the first to buy one and get it happening.

As much as I'd love one, buying an import is risky enough so I'll wait for someone else braver than I.

if you have a spare $90K lying around go for it. $30k for the car $60 for when it fails and has to be retested..

driftt and Iron chef have enough on their plates from what I gather. I'm not far behind them.

are these drive by wire?? i think they are but havent taken enough notice when inspecting one.

they are. any one from 2001 on was DBW.

[STAG250]

How does DBW work please?

[STAG250]

and are we just talking throttle or steering and more?

[Chris Rogers]

How does DBW work please?

short version. take the traditional cable that you know and replace it with a computer in the middle. your right foot at one end and a electronic actuator on the other. add to that the abililty to change things on the fly (EG skid control- computer backs off throttle even if you do not.) and it makes things like cruise that much easier. instead of having a dedicated module for cruise it now becomes a number that the computer can remember when the cruise button is pushed and that number is passed onto the throtle actuator.

that help?

as for the next post - steering has a angle sensor on it but thats it. you still have direct control of the car

[sven laptop]

may I suggest looking the car in question up on the sevs register. to my knowledge it doesn't comply.

Well, I just did & here is the list:

Entry No.: 336/02

250RX VQ25DD 2.5ltr, 158kW/1570kg, V6 Engine - 100kw/tonne. NO

350RX VQ35DE 3.5ltr, 200kW/1580kg, V6 Engine - 126kw/tonne. YES

350RX AXIS VQ35DE 3.5lt, 200kw/1610kg, V6 Engine - 125kw/tonne. YES

350RX AXIS S VQ35DE 3.5lt, 200kw/1580kg, V6 Engine - 126kw/tonne. YES

300RX VQ30DD 3.0lt, 191kw/1590kg, V6 Engine - 120kw/tonne. YES

250RX FOUR VQ25DD 2.5ltr, 158kw/1660kg, V6 Engine - 95kw/tonne. NO

250RS VQ25DD 2.5lt, 158.13kw/1550kg, V6 Engine – 102kw/tonne. NO

250RS V VQ25DD 2.5lt, 158.13kw/1560kg, V6 Engine – 101.36kw/tonne. NO

350RX FOUR VQ35DE 3.5ltr, 200kW/1670kg, V6 Engine -119kw/tonne. YES

ARX FOUR VQ35DE 3.5ltr, 200kw/1710kg, V6 Engine - 116kw\tonne. YES

350RX FOUR AXIS VQ35DE 3.5lt, 200kw/1700, V6 Engine - 117kw/tonne. YES

350RX FOUR AXIS S VQ35DE 3.5lt, 200kw/1670, V6 Engine - 119kw/tonne. YES

250T RX FOUR VQ25DET 2.5lt Turbo, 206kw/1680 – 122kw/tonne. YES

250t RS FOUR V VQ25DET 2.5lt Turbo, 205.94kw/1680kg V6 Engine – 122.58kw/tonne. YES

250RS FOUR VQ25DD 2.5lt, 158.13kw/1650kg, V6 Engine – 101.36kw/tonne. NO

250t RS FOUR V HICAS VQ25DET 2.5lt Turbo, 205.94kw/1680kg, V6 122.58kw/tonne. YES

Conditions: 2WD&4WD: 350RX, 350RX AXIS, 350RS AXIS S. 2WD 300RX. 4WD 250T RX Four. NOT VQ25DD engine

You can find the ruling & the workshops that are allowed to comply Stageas here: http://www.raws.com.au/SEVSRulingC.asp?RulingID=336

Now I'm not accusing anyone of anything, and I know there are people in this forum who have spent many long & fruitless hours trying to get a 3.5 litre Stagea complied. But I would like to know precisely where it says it's not possible, because according to this page, the only models that can't be complied are the ones with the 2.5 litre non-turbo engine.

Also I'd like to know why J-Spec is telling me one thing & other people something else entirely.

On June 27 this year (less than 2 weeks ago) I got this reply to an email enquiry about a 3.5l Stagea:

We have been advised by numerous workshops after asking many times that compliance is no problem at all (including emissions evidence) for the Stagea M35 with the 3500cc non-turbo engine, it was only the 2500cc turbo which is still undergoing testing for emissions however even that will be finalised within a matter of weeks as the test car has been done now.

If you are interested in this car but have any concerns then I would be happy to put you in touch with a compliance workshop and/or have them put something in writing to confirm that compliance is available for this car immediately.

Regards,

Craig Moor

J-Spec Imports

www.J-SPEC.com.au (Australia)

www.J-SPECIMPORTS.ca (Canada)

I reckon the sooner someone can get to the bottom of this the better for all of us.

[andy65b]

It also says in the SEV's list that M35 with the 2.5 turbo are approved from 2001 - current. However the ADR's changed in late 2003 and this has stopped (todate) anyone successfully complying a 2004 or later M35 with the 2.5 turbo motor.

I would search out the thread on the problems other members have had with importers/compliance workshops (don't know who was to blame) that have promised cars can be complied only to have the cars sitting in workshops for 12 months and no car to drive.

If you are prepared to take the risk and cost involved in getting the first car approved I wish you luck.

Personally unless I could see a complied car with Australian rego I would not take the risk.

If it is so easy to get complied why are there none in the car yards of the importers?

I would suggest you give Ben a call at NorthShore Prestige Motors. He is one of the compliance work shops that does the M35 turbo cars and has around 3 at all times in his car yard. If it is possible, he would have a good idea about it.

Good luck in your desission.

Cheers

Andy

[zei20l]

+1 for speaking with Ben. I didnt get my car from him, but he was very helpful with any questions i had and seemed to know his shit.

pity they didnt do a turbo diesel VQ25. would have some house pulling power but be half economical

[Chris Rogers]

http://www.raws.com.au/SEVSRegC.asp

give the last few lines of that a read.

http://www.raws.com.au/SEVSRulingC.asp?RulingID=336

then ring a few people about it. suggest having a long chat with shogun myself.

[andy65b]

Give Ben a call. I just spoke to him and he believes it is possible but he needs a car and will take about 6 months to complete.

Cheers

Andy