M35 Stagea Or V35 Skyline - What To Buy?

[benro2]

Hey guys,

I've been thinking about getting rid of my two cars (R33 GTS-T auto and Supra 6-sp TT) and sort of "combining" them both into a newer, more practical car. I'm after something that can seat up to 4 people (doesn't matter about only having 2 doors though), is nice and quiet inside, has plenty of luxury features, has decent handling, and is turbocharged (I'm addicted!). Practicality wise, I need a car that can at least lie down the rear seats so I can fit long objects through the boot (such as a musical keyboard), as well as large bulky items (like a large guitar amp). I was initially thinking of an M35 Stagea but I think I'd miss having a coupe, most likely because of the lower seating position. So I've been thinking about V35 Skylines, most likely in auto form, but turbocharged! It would be used as an every day car, possibly to/from work (70km/day, mostly highway), hence the leaning towards auto again...

For the Stagea, I'm only interested in the AXIS Stagea and maybe the RX Four - I'd prefer the sportier look of the AXIS though. Don't like the interior of the RS Four.

Yes, I know you cannot buy a factory turbocharged V35 Skyline, however I've seen one available at prestigemotorsport that has a decent looking twin turbo kit on it as well as a few other goodies. I won't be able to buy this car as I need to get rid of both of mine first, but was wondering about the advantages/disadvantages of the Stagea vs Skyline. Can you convince me either way? I also have a few questions about both cars:

M35 STAGEA:

1. How common is cruise control in the AXIS version? Has anyone *ever* seen one of these with cruise control? And has anyone ever used it? I like the adaptive idea but am wondering how well it actually works!

2. What's the fuel consumption like with city/highway driving?

3. Is the car decently fast? Any times available, maybe with and without a few mods like exhaust, intercoler, etc.?

4. What are the brakes like in terms of power/feel?

V35 SKYLINE:

1. Do the rear seats fold down, and how big is the boot? Say compared to your average large family sedan?

2. I've only just started looking out for these and have only come across one that has had an aftermarket turbo kit fitted to it. Has anyone seen any others, and how much money would it cost to remove and replace all the turbo gear? As you know, compliancing requires this

3. The car I was just looking at has an HKS F-Con V Pro, which I understand is really hard to get a license to tune with and almost no one in Australia has one... so would buying a car with one of these be a bad idea?

4. How common are the Nismo LSD's and exhausts and are these parts still available as second hand online, or as new from Nismo? Any ideas on pricing?

5. What are the non-Brembo brakes like in terms of power/feel? What about the Brembos? If the car I buy doesn't come with these, are they available as spare parts, or would they cost an absolute bomb and would I be better off looking at other aftermarket brakes?

6. What are the limitations of the manual and auto gearboxes? Surely I'd need an aftermarket clutch but are there some easy to use non-twin plates available that could handle the huge torque of a turbocharged 3.5L V6!? I'm also a bit worried about the auto box blowing up.... any kits available to help toughen it up a bit?

Anyway, sorry for the pile of questions but it's quite hard to find this stuff out, especially with the Stageas being as rare as they are! Thanks in advance for the help.

[OzCarImports]

Hey guys,

I've been thinking about getting rid of my two cars (R33 GTS-T auto and Supra 6-sp TT) and sort of "combining" them both into a newer, more practical car. I'm after something that can seat up to 4 people (doesn't matter about only having 2 doors though), is nice and quiet inside, has plenty of luxury features, has decent handling, and is turbocharged (I'm addicted!). Practicality wise, I need a car that can at least lie down the rear seats so I can fit long objects through the boot (such as a musical keyboard), as well as large bulky items (like a large guitar amp). I was initially thinking of an M35 Stagea but I think I'd miss having a coupe, most likely because of the lower seating position. So I've been thinking about V35 Skylines, most likely in auto form, but turbocharged! It would be used as an every day car, possibly to/from work (70km/day, mostly highway), hence the leaning towards auto again...

For the Stagea, I'm only interested in the AXIS Stagea and maybe the RX Four - I'd prefer the sportier look of the AXIS though. Don't like the interior of the RS Four.

Yes, I know you cannot buy a factory turbocharged V35 Skyline, however I've seen one available at prestigemotorsport that has a decent looking twin turbo kit on it as well as a few other goodies. I won't be able to buy this car as I need to get rid of both of mine first, but was wondering about the advantages/disadvantages of the Stagea vs Skyline. Can you convince me either way? I also have a few questions about both cars:

M35 STAGEA:

1. How common is cruise control in the AXIS version? Has anyone *ever* seen one of these with cruise control? And has anyone ever used it? I like the adaptive idea but am wondering how well it actually works!

2. What's the fuel consumption like with city/highway driving?

3. Is the car decently fast? Any times available, maybe with and without a few mods like exhaust, intercoler, etc.?

4. What are the brakes like in terms of power/feel?

V35 SKYLINE:

1. Do the rear seats fold down, and how big is the boot? Say compared to your average large family sedan?

2. I've only just started looking out for these and have only come across one that has had an aftermarket turbo kit fitted to it. Has anyone seen any others, and how much money would it cost to remove and replace all the turbo gear? As you know, compliancing requires this

3. The car I was just looking at has an HKS F-Con V Pro, which I understand is really hard to get a license to tune with and almost no one in Australia has one... so would buying a car with one of these be a bad idea?

4. How common are the Nismo LSD's and exhausts and are these parts still available as second hand online, or as new from Nismo? Any ideas on pricing?

5. What are the non-Brembo brakes like in terms of power/feel? What about the Brembos? If the car I buy doesn't come with these, are they available as spare parts, or would they cost an absolute bomb and would I be better off looking at other aftermarket brakes?

6. What are the limitations of the manual and auto gearboxes? Surely I'd need an aftermarket clutch but are there some easy to use non-twin plates available that could handle the huge torque of a turbocharged 3.5L V6!? I'm also a bit worried about the auto box blowing up.... any kits available to help toughen it up a bit?

Anyway, sorry for the pile of questions but it's quite hard to find this stuff out, especially with the Stageas being as rare as they are! Thanks in advance for the help.

Hey there, I have owned a V35 Coupe 6 Speed and a 350gt8 Sedan in the last 18 months.

The Coupe is great fun to drive, the back seats do fold down enough room to get golf clubs and a buggy in there, they are a great smooth car on the road, mine had after Nismo twin pipes and ad a geat sound to it. I got it when it had done only 10Kms on the clock it was a pleasure to drive and the power went striaht to the wheel, it has the traction control that was very usefula and savend me alot on tyres! I would say to be honest with you as I drive hard I had to replace the clutch at 25kms but apart from that the car was rock solid.

I really like the sedan 350 GT8 because it was more relaxed to drive but the 8 speed gear box was really fun and to be honest it felt quicker than the coupe. The coupe had Brembos all the way around, you felt like you could stop 2 m before a corner when you wer tapped out in 3 gear that fun, sometimes I felt like the seat belt would brake I was driving that fast! lOL

In Summing up the 350GT8 was a more practical everyday driver with plently of power , the coupe was fun to drive and it looked the part too.

I am told that there is a twin turbo kit that can be fitted if you wished for a price of approx $4500. I have been told if you get a full exhaust system put on them they rev that fast and hard it feels like it has a turbo anyways.

Good luck.

[andy65b]

M35 STAGEA:

1. How common is cruise control in the AXIS version? Has anyone *ever* seen one of these with cruise control? And has anyone ever used it? I like the adaptive idea but am wondering how well it actually works!

2. What's the fuel consumption like with city/highway driving?

3. Is the car decently fast? Any times available, maybe with and without a few mods like exhaust, intercoler, etc.?

4. What are the brakes like in terms of power/feel?

Hi Ben

1) The cruise control is not that common from the factory cars. You can have cruise added locally with a fitting that looks factory fitted. Cost about $800.

2) Fuel consumption is about 7.5km/L City and 10km/L highway. Some people say they are getting better economy in the city but not sure how they achieve better results. (read I don't drive hard all day)

3) Don't know the exact times but I believe it is around 6.5s to 100km/h. The power is 206kw and 406nm @3200 rpm. The weight of the car is the achilies heal as it is about 1700kg. Standard boost is 14psi. A 3 inch exhaust from the cat back seems to liven the engine up a bit more.

4) Standard brakes are single piston front and rear and with standard pads are not that great. I put Hawke HPS pads in and they are much better and I know some have used Nismo pads with good results. They can be upgraded using R32 GTR calipers and rotors and this brings a really good result and a reasonable cost.

One thing to bear in mind is that the AR-X is the only model that cam standard with LSD in the rear and HICAS. Axis is similar but misses these goodies. You can get Bilstein shocks and springs that lower the AR-X by about 40mm. The boot is huge in these cars and you would fit 4 sets of golf clubs in the boot. They are a very different car to the V35 but a lot of fun for a wagon.

Cheers

Andy

[benro2]

Thanks for your replies guys... but this has generated even more questions!

I am told that there is a twin turbo kit that can be fitted if you wished for a price of approx $4500. I have been told if you get a full exhaust system put on them they rev that fast and hard it feels like it has a turbo anyways.

Do you know the brand of this kit, and where it is available from? It seems awfully cheap, given that most twin turbo kits are at least $10-15k! Do you know about how much hp it produces?

3) Don't know the exact times but I believe it is around 6.5s to 100km/h. The power is 206kw and 406nm @3200 rpm. The weight of the car is the achilies heal as it is about 1700kg. Standard boost is 14psi. A 3 inch exhaust from the cat back seems to liven the engine up a bit more.

One thing to bear in mind is that the AR-X is the only model that cam standard with LSD in the rear and HICAS. Axis is similar but misses these goodies. You can get Bilstein shocks and springs that lower the AR-X by about 40mm. The boot is huge in these cars and you would fit 4 sets of golf clubs in the boot. They are a very different car to the V35 but a lot of fun for a wagon.

Yeah, I was thinking about the weight of the car as being an issue. Even with only a 2.5L engine, 10-13L/100km isn't that good...

Also, regarding boost, I've heard that turbo is very similar to that used on the R34 GT-T (which is in turn very similar to the R33 GTS-T), which means that ~10psi (with stock crappy SMIC) is about the safest maximum. So something must be wrong with my info there if it does in fact run 14 psi! Have you attached an accurate boost gauge, and what's the maximum safe boost with this new turbo?

Regarding the AR-X, are there any other mechanical changes? I mean, will just lowering it make it the same (handling wise, etc.) as a stock height RX or AXIS, or does it have extra strengthening and things for offroad? And are the widened wheelarches the same as those on the AXIS?

Hmmm... still undecided

[andy65b]

Yeah, I was thinking about the weight of the car as being an issue. Even with only a 2.5L engine, 10-13L/100km isn't that good...

Also, regarding boost, I've heard that turbo is very similar to that used on the R34 GT-T (which is in turn very similar to the R33 GTS-T), which means that ~10psi (with stock crappy SMIC) is about the safest maximum. So something must be wrong with my info there if it does in fact run 14 psi! Have you attached an accurate boost gauge, and what's the maximum safe boost with this new turbo?

Regarding the AR-X, are there any other mechanical changes? I mean, will just lowering it make it the same (handling wise, etc.) as a stock height RX or AXIS, or does it have extra strengthening and things for offroad? And are the widened wheelarches the same as those on the AXIS?

Hmmm... still undecided

I just fitted a new boost gauge on the weekend and and the boost on full throttle goes to 15psi and backs to 14psi. I am not the only M35 driver that is seeing these boost numbers. I am trying to get some accurate details on the turbo but at the moment the inforation is very sketchy. It has certainly been suggested that the turbo is ceramic and should not be boosted past 12psi but I am not confident this information is correct. I have posted the part number for the turbo in another thread if someone can get some more information.

I see no reason why the boost numbers I am getting, 15psi, would be wrong especially given the same numbers are being seen on other cars.

The front and rear track of the AR-X is wider, I think about 30mm overall. When the AR-X is lowered there are no other changes required, the front camber went to about -1.3 and the rear about -0.9. All within normal tolerances. I have also fitted stiffer sway bars which have really helped the handeling along with the improved shocks. The standard are just too soft.

I have read that the arches are similar but are not the same. They apparently will not fit with the front bar of the Axis.

Cheers

Andy

[rtune]

good grief V35s are cheap now!

http://www.prestigemotorsport.com.au/modul...hp?StockID=4661

$15k landed? I should buy it for my brother his trashed commodore, with a wing, drinks that much fuel in a year

Edited July 9, 2008 by r34nur

[benro2]

I just fitted a new boost gauge on the weekend and and the boost on full throttle goes to 15psi and backs to 14psi. I am not the only M35 driver that is seeing these boost numbers. I am trying to get some accurate details on the turbo but at the moment the inforation is very sketchy. It has certainly been suggested that the turbo is ceramic and should not be boosted past 12psi but I am not confident this information is correct. I have posted the part number for the turbo in another thread if someone can get some more information.

I see no reason why the boost numbers I am getting, 15psi, would be wrong especially given the same numbers are being seen on other cars.

Hmmm, well unless they've improved the ceramics/construction of the turbo, maybe it's steel wheeled! However, my Supra turbos can apparently last up to about 22 psi and they're ceramic turbines. I've got it tuned to 18 psi (was overboosting to 21.5 psi occasionally!) and haven't had a problem... so it's definitely possible with ceramics. I was thinking though, that since the Supra uses twin turbos (and running in "true twin" mode, ie: non-sequential), that possibly because you have half the heat per turbo, that would allow higher boost levels? I don't know.

Either way, ~400Nm from a 2.5L is going to require a fair bit of boost which is why I was thinking that 10 psi would be too low. Hopefully this means the factory turbos are good for a few psi more!

good grief V35s are cheap now!

http://www.prestigemotorsport.com.au/modul...hp?StockID=4661

$15k landed? I should buy it for my brother his trashed commodore, with a wing, drinks that much fuel in a year

Haha yeah, they're ridiculously cheap now! I'm trying to get my dad to buy one

[andy65b]

Hmmm, well unless they've improved the ceramics/construction of the turbo, maybe it's steel wheeled! However, my Supra turbos can apparently last up to about 22 psi and they're ceramic turbines. I've got it tuned to 18 psi (was overboosting to 21.5 psi occasionally!) and haven't had a problem... so it's definitely possible with ceramics. I was thinking though, that since the Supra uses twin turbos (and running in "true twin" mode, ie: non-sequential), that possibly because you have half the heat per turbo, that would allow higher boost levels? I don't know.

I have got some more info on the turbo. It is definatley ceramic but is unique to the M35. I have heard that the flange and and housing is quite unique. The internals of the turbo are not anything special and not the most efficient I am led to believe but built to a purpose. I am told that the stock boost is menat to be 0.8bar (11.2psi). So the boost I am seeing I would say is stock and just a small varience within the standard set up.

It does beg the question how much more boost can these turbo's handle?

[GTR-N1]

Hi Ben,

I'm from the same area and I don't know too much about the two cars you've mentioned (other than what I've read in HPI Mags) but you also asked about the F-Con Pro-V...??

My GTR came with one of these and you're welcome to check it out. As you can see on the V35 it'll have no AFMs on the intake pipes etc.

Yes there's hardly anyone (in Oz) trained to tune/map it but Darron at Just Jap has a HKS Service Mngr out here from time to time, and you can book the car in, for such a tune if you wish. The HKS technician is supposed to be coming out here later this year.

Cheers,

T

[benro2]

I have got some more info on the turbo. It is definatley ceramic but is unique to the M35. I have heard that the flange and and housing is quite unique. The internals of the turbo are not anything special and not the most efficient I am led to believe but built to a purpose. I am told that the stock boost is menat to be 0.8bar (11.2psi). So the boost I am seeing I would say is stock and just a small varience within the standard set up.

It does beg the question how much more boost can these turbo's handle?

Just out of interest, where did you find this info? It would be pretty hard to come across I would imagine!

Also, another variation could be your boost gauge. I'm not sure what the accuracy of these is, but I would guess +/- 1 psi? I have heard of some brand name gauges being out by as much as 3 psi! And from what rpm can you get 11.2 psi? Does it hold that all the way to redline, or does it peak at middling revs and then drop off closer to 11 psi at higher revs?

Slightly OT, but FYI, I'm sure you've heard of the Jaycar IEBC kits and they allow you to put in boost "curve" when hooked up to the boost solenoid, so if I were to get a Stagea one of the first things I'd do is install one of those (I had one in my Skyline but it never worked properly - but put that down to my kit building skills ) as you can get boost at much lower rpm. For instance, I was getting around 5 psi at 2000rpm on about 1/4 throttle, going up a hill - with wheelspin (in the wet of course!) - in 3rd gear (auto)... quite dangerous with RWD in the wet but would be excellent for a heavy AWD car!

Another thing to consider with the programmable boost curve is that you could (theoretically) run more boost at low-mid rpm and then taper it off to just above stock at high rpm, the idea being that you keep the turbo rpm low. Although, I've been told that you could still spin the turbo too fast by doing this, but unless you have a turbo rpm meter (whatever that's called), I guess you're playing with fire...

I'm from the same area and I don't know too much about the two cars you've mentioned (other than what I've read in HPI Mags) but you also asked about the F-Con Pro-V...??

My GTR came with one of these and you're welcome to check it out. As you can see on the V35 it'll have no AFMs on the intake pipes etc.

Yes there's hardly anyone (in Oz) trained to tune/map it but Darron at Just Jap has a HKS Service Mngr out here from time to time, and you can book the car in, for such a tune if you wish. The HKS technician is supposed to be coming out here later this year.

Wow, thanks for the offer! I'd absolutely love to check out an R34 GTR - never sat in one before! What I'd like to see is how smooth the ECU is. My Supra is fitted with a PowerFC and I'm not really happy with it. After purchasing the car, I've found out that it's not the smoothest ECU, and coupled with my waaaaay oversized injectors (ie: 1000cc estimated), the idle is a little lumpy with a few slight misfires, etc. I also have cold start issues, hesitations on gear shifts when cold, stuff like that, which could be down to the injectors, or the ECU, or both. So I'd be interested to see how yours compares to this.

I'd also be interested to see how it could handle an auto gearbox - but is that controlled by the ECU or something else?

Anyway, I'll be away next week but am free this weekend and pretty much every weekend after that. I can PM you my details if you'd like? Thanks again for the offer!

[GTR-N1]

Just out of interest, where did you find this info? It would be pretty hard to come across I would imagine!

Also, another variation could be your boost gauge. I'm not sure what the accuracy of these is, but I would guess +/- 1 psi? I have heard of some brand name gauges being out by as much as 3 psi! And from what rpm can you get 11.2 psi? Does it hold that all the way to redline, or does it peak at middling revs and then drop off closer to 11 psi at higher revs?

Slightly OT, but FYI, I'm sure you've heard of the Jaycar IEBC kits and they allow you to put in boost "curve" when hooked up to the boost solenoid, so if I were to get a Stagea one of the first things I'd do is install one of those (I had one in my Skyline but it never worked properly - but put that down to my kit building skills ) as you can get boost at much lower rpm. For instance, I was getting around 5 psi at 2000rpm on about 1/4 throttle, going up a hill - with wheelspin (in the wet of course!) - in 3rd gear (auto)... quite dangerous with RWD in the wet but would be excellent for a heavy AWD car!

Another thing to consider with the programmable boost curve is that you could (theoretically) run more boost at low-mid rpm and then taper it off to just above stock at high rpm, the idea being that you keep the turbo rpm low. Although, I've been told that you could still spin the turbo too fast by doing this, but unless you have a turbo rpm meter (whatever that's called), I guess you're playing with fire...

Wow, thanks for the offer! I'd absolutely love to check out an R34 GTR - never sat in one before! What I'd like to see is how smooth the ECU is. My Supra is fitted with a PowerFC and I'm not really happy with it. After purchasing the car, I've found out that it's not the smoothest ECU, and coupled with my waaaaay oversized injectors (ie: 1000cc estimated), the idle is a little lumpy with a few slight misfires, etc. I also have cold start issues, hesitations on gear shifts when cold, stuff like that, which could be down to the injectors, or the ECU, or both. So I'd be interested to see how yours compares to this.

I'd also be interested to see how it could handle an auto gearbox - but is that controlled by the ECU or something else?

Anyway, I'll be away next week but am free this weekend and pretty much every weekend after that. I can PM you my details if you'd like? Thanks again for the offer!

[GTR-N1]

Sorry about that!

Yes PM is fine... Saturday 8am is OK by me

Or Sunday same time

BTW is your car the really neat white one that's parked near the Aqua. Ctr.?

If so, it's very well cared for.

PM me your Ph No

[andy65b]

Just out of interest, where did you find this info? It would be pretty hard to come across I would imagine!

Also, another variation could be your boost gauge. I'm not sure what the accuracy of these is, but I would guess +/- 1 psi? I have heard of some brand name gauges being out by as much as 3 psi! And from what rpm can you get 11.2 psi? Does it hold that all the way to redline, or does it peak at middling revs and then drop off closer to 11 psi at higher revs?

Slightly OT, but FYI, I'm sure you've heard of the Jaycar IEBC kits and they allow you to put in boost "curve" when hooked up to the boost solenoid, so if I were to get a Stagea one of the first things I'd do is install one of those (I had one in my Skyline but it never worked properly - but put that down to my kit building skills ) as you can get boost at much lower rpm. For instance, I was getting around 5 psi at 2000rpm on about 1/4 throttle, going up a hill - with wheelspin (in the wet of course!) - in 3rd gear (auto)... quite dangerous with RWD in the wet but would be excellent for a heavy AWD car!

Another thing to consider with the programmable boost curve is that you could (theoretically) run more boost at low-mid rpm and then taper it off to just above stock at high rpm, the idea being that you keep the turbo rpm low. Although, I've been told that you could still spin the turbo too fast by doing this, but unless you have a turbo rpm meter (whatever that's called), I guess you're playing with fire...

Some of the info is from this forum and some is from Ben at NorthShore Presige Motors.

I have a Speco (Repco) branded boost gauge. I can not vouch for the accuracy but it did seem like a well made kit with quality fittings. It was certainly budget $45. It starts tbuilding boost around 2250 RPM but I am not sure where the peak is. I would say around 3200 rpm and then it tapers back to 14 and then settles bact to about 12 to readline from what I have seen. I have it under the dash so it is the not the best spot to watch carefully whilst driving hard.

Wpuld be nice to have more boost lower in the reve range. They are a big car to get off the line.

[benro2]

Some of the info is from this forum and some is from Ben at NorthShore Presige Motors.

I have a Speco (Repco) branded boost gauge. I can not vouch for the accuracy but it did seem like a well made kit with quality fittings. It was certainly budget $45. It starts tbuilding boost around 2250 RPM but I am not sure where the peak is. I would say around 3200 rpm and then it tapers back to 14 and then settles bact to about 12 to readline from what I have seen. I have it under the dash so it is the not the best spot to watch carefully whilst driving hard.

Wpuld be nice to have more boost lower in the reve range. They are a big car to get off the line.

Yes, the torque peak is supposed to be at about 3200 rpm so max boost at that point makes sense.

I don't know if you've seen the Jaycar IEBC and DFA kits, but here's the main SAU thread just in case you haven't: http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Ja...tro-t61207.html

Sydneykid reports somewhere in there that he got a 30% power increase and a 12% fuel consumption reduction on an M34 Stagea auto. I would suspect that you could get more boost lower in the rev range, and with less throttle, than you do at the moment with the IEBC (you may need the DFA to stop R&R), plus you could make it hold the 14 psi all the way to redline. Maybe even jump the low-mid revs boost to 15-16 psi? That's certainly getting up there though...

BTW I wrote to Geoff from prestigemotorsport and he says that he has seen a few V35 coupes go through already fitted with turbo kits however they're still very rare and never turn up when you want them to. He also has no idea of the cost of removing and replacing the kit but has given me a number to call. I'll post up the results when I get them!

[scathing]

I am told that there is a twin turbo kit that can be fitted if you wished for a price of approx $4500. I have been told if you get a full exhaust system put on them they rev that fast and hard it feels like it has a turbo anyways.

A twin turbo kit for $4500? What's the catch?

So I've been thinking about V35 Skylines, most likely in auto form, but turbocharged! It would be used as an every day car, possibly to/from work (70km/day, mostly highway), hence the leaning towards auto again...

I wouldn't worry about the auto then. The VQ35DE has so much torque that you don't really need to change gear. You can drop to 20-30km/hr in 4th gear in a V35 and it'll still pull cleanly, albeit slowly. If you're mostly highway mileage (I assume not bumper-to-bumper on it), the car may as well be an auto since you'll not need to change gear. The V35 will comfortably do 60km/hr in 6th so even if you have to slow down on the highway you can leave it in gear and re-accelerate.

The auto's "manual shifter" is also in the "wrong" direction (away from the driver for upchange, towards the driver to downshift) for enthusiastic driving, and you have to go aftermarket to get steering wheel paddles or to correct the shifter.

V35 question:

4. How common are the Nismo LSD's and exhausts and are these parts still available as second hand online, or as new from Nismo? Any ideas on pricing?

Does it have to be Nismo? There's a range of manufacturers that can sell you good quality parts. The Nismo LSD, from what I've heard, is quite clunky. Its not like you have to deal with Nissan servicing anyway, so it doesn't matter if the parts are aftermarket as long as they're good quality.

Exhaust-wise, there are plenty of companies selling exhausts for the V35 (which is identical to the Z33's, aside from needing a small piece of pipe to increase the length as the V35 is a longer car).

V35 question:

5. What are the non-Brembo brakes like in terms of power/feel? What about the Brembos? If the car I buy doesn't come with these, are they available as spare parts, or would they cost an absolute bomb and would I be better off looking at other aftermarket brakes?

The non-Brembos aren't that bad. The feel is reasonable-to-good, although the initial response isn't as good as the Brembos. I fitted my non-Brembo 350Z with Brembos, and it took a while to readjust to the touchy brake pedal.

If you're not hammering the brakes hard, then there's almost nothing between them in actual stopping distance. 2 feet at 97km/hr is sweet f**k all.

However, if you're going on the track I'll be the first to tell you that they don't cut it. I did the usual Stage 1 upgrades (DS2500s pads, DBA slotted rotors and RBF600 fluid) and I'd fade them out quite easily on semi slicks. Even with street tyres I was eating an entire set of rear pads in under 10,000km with 2 track days in there.

You can get OEM Brembos second or third hand for under $2K these days. If you want better braking performance and you're willing to spend a little extra, get V36 Sport brakes. You will need aftermarket wheels to fit those monsters, though.

V35 Question:

Surely I'd need an aftermarket clutch but are there some easy to use non-twin plates available that could handle the huge torque of a turbocharged 3.5L V6!?

Why don't you want a twin plate?

I just installed a Nismo twin plate Coppermix, and the pedal feel is lighter than stock. Its grabbier than before, but not painfully so. Its still easy to find the friction point and slip it slowly for a smooth take off. You only notice that it bites harder if you come off the pedal too quickly, and the car lurches forward with a bit more force.

Its rated for 640ps, which is higher than the 400ps that most V35s/Z33s generate on factory internals. As there's no NA VQ that makes that kind of power (even Nismo's 380RS only makes 400ps) one would assume that it would cope with the torque of an FI application.

Edited July 11, 2008 by scathing

[benro2]

Wow scathing, thanks very much for your informative post!

A twin turbo kit for $4500? What's the catch?

That's what I would like to know... but of course you (usually) get what you pay for. It's probably just the turbos in this case, maybe a couple of other things, but for it to be a comprehensive kit, which is the only thing I would be after anyway, it's going to probably be over $10k...

Does it have to be Nismo? There's a range of manufacturers that can sell you good quality parts. The Nismo LSD, from what I've heard, is quite clunky. Its not like you have to deal with Nissan servicing anyway, so it doesn't matter if the parts are aftermarket as long as they're good quality.

Exhaust-wise, there are plenty of companies selling exhausts for the V35 (which is identical to the Z33's, aside from needing a small piece of pipe to increase the length as the V35 is a longer car).

The non-Brembos aren't that bad. The feel is reasonable-to-good, although the initial response isn't as good as the Brembos. I fitted my non-Brembo 350Z with Brembos, and it took a while to readjust to the touchy brake pedal.

No, it doesn't have to be Nismo. I just haven't researched any aftermarket parts as of yet so didn't know if any existed. Does the car have an LSD stock? If so, then that may be enough for the road? I doubt I'll be taking the car to the track - although it would be nice to have that option open.

Regarding the exhaust, this time around I'll be looking for something that's legal (or at least close), the main reason being that I want to be able to actually hear my sound system! My Supra is so loud that bass just gets lost under the sound of the exhaust. Ideally, I'd like something that flows a lot better than stock (and suitable for a turbocharged engine), but something that I can't really hear from inside the car with the windows up. Do you know of a kit that can do this? I was thinking that the Nismo kit may not be any good anyway since it's designed for an N/A car?

The non-Brembos aren't that bad. The feel is reasonable-to-good, although the initial response isn't as good as the Brembos. I fitted my non-Brembo 350Z with Brembos, and it took a while to readjust to the touchy brake pedal.

OK, I should have been a little clearer on my requirements here. I would have thought that OEM Brembos would have good pedal feel but would still be good for the track. *Most likely*, I will never get to a track day, especially if I do go for an auto. So with that in mind, my main goal would be good pedal modulation and feel for the road. I don't like "spongy" brake pedals or brakes that feel like they're incapable of stopping the car in an emergency. Would you say that the non-Brembo's would be suitable for my needs?

Why don't you want a twin plate?

I just installed a Nismo twin plate Coppermix, and the pedal feel is lighter than stock. Its grabbier than before, but not painfully so. Its still easy to find the friction point and slip it slowly for a smooth take off. You only notice that it bites harder if you come off the pedal too quickly, and the car lurches forward with a bit more force.

Its rated for 640ps, which is higher than the 400ps that most V35s/Z33s generate on factory internals. As there's no NA VQ that makes that kind of power (even Nismo's 380RS only makes 400ps) one would assume that it would cope with the torque of an FI application.

OK, here's the reason why I want to try and avoid twin-plates, bearing in mind my experience with these is limited to my car and a friend's R33 GTS-T. Perhaps if someone has had more experience with a range of twin-plates, I might change my mind about them!

Before buying the Supra, for practicality reasons, I had never ever driven a manual before. Not even once - so I had to learn how to drive manual myself on the Supra, really without a teacher (other than a few quick tips from my dad and friends). The problem was that it had been fitted with an HKS GD Clutch Pro twin-plate with lightened flywheel, which is apparently one of the hardest twin-plates to use. It doesn't use the sequential plate engagement system as the GD Clutch Max uses, and has an unsprung centre and no anti-rattle clips, and it looks like a 6-puck design. The takeup is extremely short and aggressive - I'm talking about 0.5cm here from fully disengaged to fully engaged - and the thing is INCREDIBLY noisy at idle and under load under 2000 rpm... as in much louder than the car itself, which is quite loud

Eventually, after a month or so, I was (relatively) comfortable driving it on the road and I actually quite like it now, but I deliberately avoid traffic and very steep hillstarts because of it - hence why I have kept the Skyline for the time being. I was looking to get an aftermarket single plate but keep the lightened flywheel but I was unsure of how much of the noise was attributed to the flywheel or the twin plates, so I haven't really looked into that avenue much more. Do you happen to know how loud just a lightened flywheel is?

Anyway, regarding your aftermarket twin plate, does it rattle at all? Is it a pain to drive in heavy traffic? What's the takeup length? Would I (or anyone) be able to just get into your car and simply drive it without any stalling or wheelspin problems? Say if I were to let out the clutch, without throttle, at the normal rate that you would for a stock single plate, would the car lurch forward or simply stall? If you do that in mine, it will just clunk very loudly and stall... People tell me it's worse than a brass button and pretty much no one, even those with 10 years manual experience or more, can just get in and drive it. Yes, it is literally that bad! So it's for these reasons that I'm *extremely* cautious about twin-plates!

Having said that, I did drive a friend's R33 GTS-T with an Exedy twin-plate with lightened flywheel and it was just like a stocker to drive, but noisy under load at low rpm (nowhere near as loud as mine though). Would you say yours would be like this?

Again, as long as the auto is good for the torque load, I'd probably just go for that. Yes, I'd love a manual and would definitely have more fun in it, but I just think that if this car is my only "everyday" car, I should make it as easy as possible to drive. Plus it makes those quick getaways from lights that much easier!

Edit: one more question, how is the V35 on powerdown? My Supra has a very peaky engine (hit 3000 rpm and power literally doubles) so the rears (285's) just spin up in the first 3 gears. I was hoping the V35 would be a bit better than this? I hope the twin turbo kits are fairly linear in their power delivery!

Edited July 12, 2008 by benro2

[scathing]

I should have mentioned that I'm a 350Z owner, but since the car share the same platform and hardpoints most of my impressions and experience still apply. The 350Z is a little lighter and a little stiffer than the V35, which makes the chassis a tad more responsive, but in general there's very little in it.

for it to be a comprehensive kit, which is the only thing I would be after anyway, it's going to probably be over $10k...

That's what I was thinking. Most self-fitted twin turbo kits I've seen have been in the region of USD$6500 + shipping + fitting, and not all the kits are "complete". Then you need to land it, and pay for it. A HKS Single Turbo kit won't leave you much change from $9K + fitting, so I can only imagine what their twins kit is like.

Does the car have an LSD stock?

Have a read of the V35 subforum. If I remember correctly some people mentioned that they weren't stock in all models. I'm pretty sure that some offer a VLSD (as is the case with the 350Z), and for NA applications I've found it to be sufficient for a street car.

Otherwise, you can find someone who has upgraded their LSD and buy the VLSD off them. It shouldn't be worth very much, but I don't feel like it needs to be replaced. I only single peel around really tight (1st gear) hairpins.

Regarding the exhaust, this time around I'll be looking for something that's legal (or at least close)

Ideally, I'd like something that flows a lot better than stock (and suitable for a turbocharged engine), but something that I can't really hear from inside the car with the windows up. Do you know of a kit that can do this?

APS 2.5" true dual is the first one that comes to mind. They're passable for NA applications and, compared to my HiTech single, they make the same peak power but lose a little in the midrange. A lot of people have ended up making custom cross-pipes for them, to get some of that midrange back. On the APS TT they're ADR noise legal, so NA with no turbos to muffle the sound they might be a tad over. It won't be noticably so, however. They are, obviously, also suitable for FI applications.

I was thinking that the Nismo kit may not be any good anyway since it's designed for an N/A car?

Pretty sure the Nismo exhaust links back to a single pipe after the cats. Its good for NA, but I wouldn't be running a single 2.5" midpipe-back exhaust on a 3.5L engine with forced induction.

So with that in mind, my main goal would be good pedal modulation and feel for the road. I don't like "spongy" brake pedals or brakes that feel like they're incapable of stopping the car in an emergency. Would you say that the non-Brembo's would be suitable for my needs?

I'd say they were sufficient. I'd suggest taking one for a test drive since feel is very subjective, but in my 2 years of non-Brembo usage, street and track, I found them to be good enough.

OK, here's the reason why I want to try and avoid twin-plates

Yeah, your twin sounds quite aggressive. You can get singles like that. I drove Dumhedz's old S13 when he had a really aggro single with an unsprung centre.

The Nismo twin plate Coppermix is nothing like that. I'll be honest and say that, as its being bedded in, its getting grabbier and less easy to take off smoothly without too many revs (its only got around 250km on it right now) but its still drivable and the clutch feel is reasonably progressive, and I still think its just a matter of getting used to.

Considering I was on the stock clutch for 4 years, I think its just a mental thing. I drove a mate's R33 GT-R with a twin plate, and his car was far more difficult to take off than mine is now.

Do you happen to know how loud just a lightened flywheel is?

Before the Nismo twin plate I was running a JUN chromoly single mass flywheel with the stock clutch, so yes I do. Its not that loud, but its certainly audible and people are sure to ask me what that racket is.

Anyway, regarding your aftermarket twin plate, does it rattle at all?

Only if I'm trying to throttle in 6th gear from 1200RPM. Otherwise, it doesn't rattle at all. I haven't had time to thrash the car to get the driveline really heated up, which is where my JUN wheel would really chatter, but the news I've read about on forums is that the Nismo flywheel doesn't rattle.

Would I (or anyone) be able to just get into your car and simply drive it without any stalling or wheelspin problems?

It might take a little getting used to, but so far it feels far from bad. The resistance of the new clutch is less than stock, and the friction material is superior, but its quite progressive. I'll let someone else drive it in the near future, and see what they think.

one more question, how is the V35 on powerdown?

Here's what Cain's graph looks like. The graph has his NA line (which looks like the car was dead stock, judging by the peak power figure) as well as after the APS Twin Turbo install.

NA or FI, that's a very smooth line. Doing bolt-ons to the NA doesn't make the power graph that much curvier. You will pick up more midrange and top end, but its not the lightswitch VTEC feel.

I've driven an APS TT powered 350Z, and it feels like a stock S15 / R33 GTS-t...just faster. The car had 275 width Pirelli P Zeros on the back, and if you floored it from 3000RPM in a straight line it didn't break traction in any gear. Well, technically it would slip at 6000RPM in 1st, but you'd just then change gear into 2nd. If you did that in 2nd, it would keep traction all the way to the limiter.

The V35 shares the exact same suspension geometry as the Z33 (but with different rate and height springs/dampers, and as I said before the V35 may not have a VLSD) so getting the car to put the power down in a straight line isn't a major issue.

You will need to respect the throttle on FI out of corners, of course, but that's normal. With NA, I can mash the throttle in 2nd gear once I get to the apex of a bend and not worry about wheelspin if I'm driving the car properly. Only if I flick the wheel or other weight shift tricks, or kick the clutch, will the tail break away.

Edited July 13, 2008 by scathing

[benro2]

First off, I would like to thank Terry_GT-R34 for graciously letting me come and check out his awesome R34 GTR! That will certainly be something I will remember for some time...

Secondly, thanks to scathing for taking the time to carefully answer *all* my questions!

Otherwise, you can find someone who has upgraded their LSD and buy the VLSD off them. It shouldn't be worth very much, but I don't feel like it needs to be replaced. I only single peel around really tight (1st gear) hairpins.

Yes, this seems like a good idea. I certainly hope it's better than the GTS-T's though! I've had some interesting times with that one in the wet...

APS 2.5" true dual is the first one that comes to mind.

Is that suitable for the V35 though? I thought it was just for the 350Z? The only issue I have with the APS exhaust system is that it's very LOW pitched... as in it emphasises the "undertones" of the exhaust, not the "overtones". For comparison, have a listen to the Nismo 350Z exhaust - I think it was on one of the Best Motoring videos. I like that type of sound much better - a lot higher pitched - much like (most) of the straight 6's! Here's a youtube example that I like:

And here's an example of one I don't like:

The Nismo twin plate Coppermix is nothing like that. I'll be honest and say that, as its being bedded in, its getting grabbier and less easy to take off smoothly without too many revs (its only got around 250km on it right now) but its still drivable and the clutch feel is reasonably progressive, and I still think its just a matter of getting used to.

Oh, so they get grabbier as time goes on? Mine appears to be doing the opposite - although I think that's probably just due to me being able to modulate the pedal more accurately as I've gotten used to it

Only if I'm trying to throttle in 6th gear from 1200RPM. Otherwise, it doesn't rattle at all. I haven't had time to thrash the car to get the driveline really heated up, which is where my JUN wheel would really chatter, but the news I've read about on forums is that the Nismo flywheel doesn't rattle.

Oh really? That's weird that the rattle changes with the heat of the driveline! Mine is just LOUD all the time, especially on hotter days with the A/C on, and under load in any gear. Driveline temp doesn't appear to change it much, if at all.

Unfortunately, it's very hard to describe clutches, which is why it's so hard to make a choice. Everyone's opinion of "hard" or "progressive" is different! Terry might be able to post his thoughts on my clutch if he's reading. When I first bought the car I was whingeing about how I couldn't drive it and all that, but now I'm quite OK with it for the most part (NOT in traffic though!). I've found that some people with a bit more experience are also able to predict whether or not it would be liveable with some practise too, which I can't really do as I have such a limited experience with a range of clutches.

Here's what Cain's graph looks like. The graph has his NA line (which looks like the car was dead stock, judging by the peak power figure) as well as after the APS Twin Turbo install.

That is a very nice torque curve! For comparison, here's my Supra's power and torque graphs @ 18 psi (stock twins, non-sequential mode):

POWER/BOOST

TORQUE/AFR

I've driven an APS TT powered 350Z, and it feels like a stock S15 / R33 GTS-t...just faster. The car had 275 width Pirelli P Zeros on the back, and if you floored it from 3000RPM in a straight line it didn't break traction in any gear. Well, technically it would slip at 6000RPM in 1st, but you'd just then change gear into 2nd. If you did that in 2nd, it would keep traction all the way to the limiter.

Wow, that's really good - exactly what I want. Probably because of the peakiness of my torque curve, it just breaks traction in the dry on 285's in the first 3 gears. I'm probably making more torque actually (estimated 600-650Nm? - I don't know how to work it out) but I'd say it's the steep curve that just rips the traction from the tyres.

All up, it's certainly looking like a TT V35 Coupe is the way to go, but now I want an R34 GTR! No, I can't afford one of those and they're still somewhat too impractical, so I'll stop wishing for one of those right now!