Ecu Upgrades And Hks Turbo

[elrodeo666]

I`ve been out to HKS (japan) today and looking at getting a heap of mods done.. Basically at new turbos, injectors,fuel pump,cams etc.. have to do modifications in 2 steps..Mainly the misso will kill me if done in one go. Anyway Stage 1 is for 400 HP then looking for 550 to 600max on the next mods.

Anyway HKS want to put in an FCON Pro but I`m not sure how tuneable this is out of Japan. Theres a possibility I`ll send it back to Oz as private import so want to be able to tune it easily.

What I want to know is what do people think is the best after market computer.. Is the FCON PRO a piggy back...Is Apex Power FC a replacement ECU or piggy back. Does the PFC have boost control or do you need seperate controller. HKS are adamant that the FCON is the go but its easy to get it tuned here.

Any suggestions fellas?

[paulr33]

all your PFC questions are covered in the PFC FAQ in my signature

have a read of it

[elrodeo666]

Cheers...had a squizz before..

Frustrating but understandable that HKS want to use their gear. I like how the PFC works I`m want this but they want to install the FCON.

[R31Nismoid]

So buy the HKS turbos and take it to somewhere that will use a PFC (or similar ECU thats commonly supported here)

[elrodeo666]

Easier said than done..its the whole japanese honour crap, they`ll get offended plus I go racing with these guys a fair bit so sort of in their face if I get the PFC...its like walking on bloody egg shells here half the time, plus the bonus of HKS is can use the creddy card for those extra expenses that pop up where as most other crew like cash..Plus they do flawless work..Nismo workshops the same.

[Zensoku]

elrodeo666, when you come back to Oz with the car, where do you live? There are currently two certified HKS Pro Dealers which can tune the F-Con ecu's in Australia. One's in Sydney: www.tunehouse.com.au and the other is www.xspeed.com.au in Western Australia. I know that's not many and probably not enough to warrant support for the HKS products here, but, there will be more HKS Pro Dealers popping up around the country towards the end of the year apparently.

I guess, you've just got to weigh up whether you want to:

A: Dishonour your Japanese friends with a Power FC

or

B: Earn your respect with them with a HKS F-Con Pro!

[elrodeo666]

What are the pro`s and cons between the Fcon v`s the PFC ??????

Edited July 12, 2008 by elrodeo666

[Adriano]

If you fully mod the car before you bring it over, then it shouldn't need a retune when it gets here, just make sure it is tuned for fuel that is available over here

[Zensoku]

From the USA site:

The HKS F-CON V Pro is a fully featured standalone engine management system that connects as easily as a "piggy-back" fuel and timing controller. As modifications to a vehicle are made, the need for fuel and timing adjustments becomes critical for performance and safety. The F-CON V Pro with its 32x32 resolution for both fuel and timing maps is the optimal solution. The F-CON V Pro can control up to eight injectors and D Jetro or L Jetro setups. --- Injectors can be set to fire as batch, sequentially or staged. The F-CON V Pro can also read drive by wire vehicles. Programming is done via the HKS Power Writer software; which only Certified HKS Pro Dealers have access to. The HKS Power Writer software for the F-CON V Pro has some very unique abilities to simplify setup and tuning. Via the vehicle start up menus most Japanese import cars can be easily started by selecting the vehicle’s parameters (Make, Model, Engine and etc). Tuning is simplified due to the A/F Feedback control; where a target A/F value can be input and the F-CON V Pro will adjust fuel automatically. Also full data logging capabilities are built into the F-Con V Pro Power Writer software. All major vehicle conditions including; speed, rpm, water temperature, intake temperature, timing, boost, injector duty cycle and etc can be logged to an HKS Pro Dealer’s computer.

Translated from the Japan site:

Stand-alone ECU for high level professional tuners!

It enables original type of engine management with L-Jetro, D-Jetro or Throttle control.

- For fuel control, up to 8 injectors can be controlled. It enables 8 cylinders sequential or 4 cylinders twin injector control.

- For ignition control, up to 6 independent lines can be controlled. Revolution limiter with ignition cut is possible. (For motorsport purpose only.) It enables to keep high boost at start of drag racing.

- When A/F Meter is connected, Feedback function that changes setting data automatically for target A/F and A/F data can be logged.

Fuel, Ignition management are controlled based on base maps, trim maps and a lot of compensations.

Fuel Control

< Standard Injection Time map >

- Main

- Main + Sub (Twin Injector)

- Main + Sub + Independent (3 mode injection type)

< Fuel Compensation >

- Main Trim

- Sub Trim

- Throttle Compensation

- Car Speed Compensation

- Start Fuel Compensation

- Acceleration Compensation 1

- Acceleration Compensation 2

- Water Temperature Compensation - Intake Air Temp. Compensation

- Exhaust Gas Temp. Compensation

- Individual Compensation

- Deceleration Compensation

- Scramble Compensation

- A/F Feedback Compensation 1

- A/F Feedback Compensation 2

Ignition Control

< Normal Ignition Timing map >

- Main

- Sub

- Idling

< Ignition Compensation >

- Sub Trim

- Throttle Compensation

- Acceleration Compensation

- Water Temperature Compensation

- Intake Air Temp. Compensation

- Exhaust Gas Temp. Compensation

- Individual Compensation

- Close Angle Time Compensation

- AT Shift Compensation

- Scramble Compensation

Other Control

- Fuel Cut Control

- Ignition Cut Control

- ISCV Control

Option Control

- Electrical Fan Control

(2 systems with conditions)

- Fuel Pump Control

(2 systems with conditions)

- NVCS Control

- Shift Lamp Control

- Warning Light Control

- Misfiring Control

With above functions, F-CON V Pro enables best setting for street, drag race, circuit use, autocross, hill climb, drift etc. F-CON V Pro can be freely programmed with A/F Feedback, Twin Injector, Ignition Cut and a lot more other functions for professional high level tuners. F-CON V Pro can be used for any level of tuning from street to full tuning that enables step up with a F-CON. As no default data is supplied, setting at HKS PowerWriter shops is required.

The HKS F-Con V Pro has it over the Power FC:

-32bit 32x32 resolution for tuning, whereas the Power FC is possibily 16x16 or 20x20 tuning resolution, depending on version/application? Correct me if i'm wrong.

-It has Air/Fuel Compensation map where it can aim for a set Air/Fuel ratio. I don't believe Power FC has that feature.

-It doesn't come with a handcontroller, but can interface with the F-Con Navigator which displays info just like the Power FC's hand controller.

-It can be connected directly to the CAMP2 graphical display unit (a bit like the R34 & R35 GTR's display screen)

-It can interface directly with HKS's Air/Fuel Knock Amp for tuning and checking for detonation.

That's the major differences I could see amongst all the other Motec style features it has. The downside is only two tuners in Australia have the software and experience to get the most out of this ECU. The other way to look at it, is that the HKS F-Con will be around for a very long time and the Power FC's life is numbered. Although there will be hundreds of tuners out there still toying with Power FC's for years to come, it will get to a stage where the Power FC will be dated technology (they don't manufacture them anymore) and people will be looking elsewhere for a plug-in ECU. The firmware in F-Con's can be updated by Pro Dealers.

[discopotato03]

I think it's a sorry state of affairs that the software situation is as it currently is . IMO it can be all singing all dancing but if people can't talk to the thing it's useless .

If two firms only have the ability to talk to the F Con then it probably a foregone conclusing that they're going to charge a fortune to do anything with it .

When you can buy a product and get Datalogit software to talk to it I think it's a better deal that one with lots of features virtually no one can get at .

Functionality and ease of use is everything IMO , cheers A .

[elrodeo666]

Its the dead opposite here with bucketload of tuners who can tune the F Con.

I`m not 100% if I`ll come back to Oz, probably still base myself outta japan but looking as doing as many mods now while I`m still here full time.

[Zensoku]

It was HKS's decision to "lock" the tune on the F-Con's in an attempt to stop boofheads getting within the ECU and farking up a map. (and an engine!)

Their marketing philosophy behind their F-Con range is that their product is a high-end item and they are then aiming it at the premium end of the tuner's scale. ie: HKS Pro Dealers with to-the-minute product knowledge on their F-Con's with the Power-writer software. Not some two-bit dodgy workshop that's here today, gone tomorrow kind of proposition which will often provide a very "half-baked" attempt at setting a tune.

I guess it's just a shame that they made that decision and didn't go down the line of providing end-user modification. (ie: Power FC hand controller)

My view is that it's up to whoever you can trust to fit and tune an ECU to get the most out of that given package.