Tarmac Rallying Perpetual Thread

[PHaT MR30]

I have a question Stu....

Can I have the Canadian chicks number???? Lol!

[t01-100]

Timmy... you're trouble, we are trying to protect her from bad boys like you!

[targa]

Wow, I don't think this thread has ever seen so much comment is such a short space of time. I'll address the key points I see and leave everyone else to arm wrestle in the school yard about the rest.

999 Competition Sweep - These rules have remained static since around 2003. Well done to the guys that played the game and used them to their advantage. Although some people have become vocal on this topic it is important to note not one single complaint was heard pre-event about this regulation, therefore I believe it’s unreasonable for someone to take issue with another entrant’s result post-event on this basis alone.

The above said, review of this topic, as well as many other items will be made prior to the first round of the World Targa Championship this year (Targa High Country).

Low Volume Vehicles – A process is available for anyone wanting to make application for the inclusion of a low volume model within the event. Should the event's technical committee believe the model is a reasonable technical fit and importantly is within the spirit of the event then it may be approved to for competition.

Models that have followed this process in the past including both tuned, prototype (at time of the event) and genuine production models including Skelta G-Force, Holden Monaro CV8 T3, Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo, Mazda MX5 SP, Mazda RX7 SP, Mazda RX8 SP, Hyundai Tiburon SR, Nizpro 200SX-R, Alfa Romeo GTV Turbo Cup, Subaru Impreza WRX STi PMS25, Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera R as well as various Lotus, Alpina and many others.

The Autech ATTKD Select R was approved for use at Targa Tasmania prior to the event this year along with the Modern competition winning Gallardo Super Trofeo Strata. There are reams of documentation held by the event on both models as the process is lengthy. In some cases the entire spec of the vehicle may not be acceptable and adjustment required to meet eligibility criteria... eg. 75kg of additional weight and roll cage modification required to be used by the Skelta.

This area of the event is also a topic under review so please feel free to contact the event if you wish to enter an as yet unapproved vehicle as the regulations may be altered going forward.

Car 806 - Andrew's car did indeed fail the post-event technical inspection due to a gearbox irregularity, identified by scrutineers and confirmed by a GT-R expert from Japan. This vehicle, along cars 895 (R33) and 831 (R34) were inspected for technical compliance in the Early Modern competition on Sunday 2 May. This technical check included measurement and visual inspection of various components of the engine, drive train and chassis, as well as datadot tyres, fuel test and engine stroke measurement.

Andrew’s exclusion was open to protest from him as the entrant of car 806, an option he did not choose to take up.

I meet with Andrew a few hours after the event, congratulated him on crossing the line first in what must have been a very challenging drive and bought him a beer.

I did not tell that Andrew to keep the trophies, as firstly it’s not my place to make such a call, and secondly, if I were in Andrew's position I wouldn't want the reminder of a tainted result.

The official winner of Early Modern at Targa Tasmania 2010 was Brendan Manion in car 895 and well done to him in what is his best result to date in a genuine R33 N1, a car that has previously scored second outright in the Modern competition.

Car 806 was not protested by another entrant, it simply failed the organisers compulsory post-event inspection. Disappointingly Andrew told me he simply had not familiarised himself with the key regulation relating to his situation with the gearbox. This highlights an important item - if you are unsure of how a technical regulation relates to your vehicle please ask the question of the organisers to ensure the greatest technical compliance, not matter what the event or competition you are entering.

I hope that the many members of the SAU community enjoyed their Targa Tasmania experience this year (however wet it might have been!) and are looking forward to next year, or the upcoming Targa season kicking off on 5 November at Targa High Country!

If anyone has questions relating to my above comments or any other, please feel free to email or call me.

A very very good thought out explation for all to understand

For those that think that a derived time is a good option my derived time on Tarraleah was 2:19 (3rd slowest time) much slower than if I had caught the sweep car and driven the stage

The last day cost me about 6 minutes and maybe a win

48 people stood on the podium with their trophy plates at the finsh on Sunday night,

46 of us handed them back to the officals as requiried.

Two didn't.

I think you should do the right thing and send them back Snowy

As Stu said their 'tainted"

[sav man]

I have a question Stu....

Can I have the Canadian chicks number???? Lol!

what about the other blonde chicks number, i thought she was better.

Edited May 6, 2010 by sav man

[Marlin]

Bloody hell where were all these women you two speak of!?!?!

[sav man]

i didn't see them at the targa bar, but they were walking around the silverdome all week, and at the presentation dinner

[PHaT MR30]

what about the other blonde chicks number, i thought she was better.

Yeh, well you would short list them all pretty much.. Might put Benson and Perry in charge of hiring when we get new staff from now on.

Bloody hell where were all these women you two speak of!?!?!

They weren't allowed out in public till they knew you were safely on a plane home, but surely you got your fair share while you were down

i didn't see them at the targa bar, but they were walking around the silverdome all week, and at the presentation dinner

Monday night thats where it all happens... mind you the bar was a bit quieter monday, could have been hangovers... or that Big John's speech sent them all to sleep!

[t01-100]

They're all blonde Ben!

[sav man]

i think name tags need to warn next year

[Marlin]

Coupla man-whores you two huh.......

I think I know who you mean, the hospitality girls? The ones where I was talking to you Sav at the finish line?

[sav man]

Yeah i think they were in there, guarding the vip area...surley your plough master pass would have got you in there. The one i'm talking about organised out dinner tickets on Mon afternoon. Perry does know how to hire.

Edited May 6, 2010 by sav man

[PHaT MR30]

Coupla man-whores you two huh.......

I think I know who you mean, the hospitality girls? The ones where I was talking to you Sav at the finish line?

Ive got some photo's from monday night with em, but im not sure if they will ever see the light of day.

[Targa Tom]

It depends on how wealthy and/or how good mates the crew is Bris.

I've paid half costs as a Nav, because I loved it and treated it as a yearly holiday with a great mate, Tim helped out substantially last year, and treated it much the same.

Some Navs get all expenses paid, and thats usually when they're teaming up with someone they don't really know (as I did in 2007), and some get paid (usually the ones that are semi-pro and actually write their own notes as opposed to reading/modifying a purchased set).

Should be a salary cap I reckon!!! If you are lucky enough to get an experienced nav for free... I think thats fair.

Tim, for instance over the last 3 years has gone to the trouble of getting seat time and improving his skills.

He has been in a ute (and the reports from that event weren't glowing), some dirt cars, an unexperienced evo, then a couple of trips with BW bought him to this years event.

Now I would say on the strength of his CV and his enthusiasm for improvement he has gone from paying to fee charging. In future he will have the choice of riding for free, helping out, or being paid.

Well done Tim - Poor art dealer in Qld just bumped his entire stock 3% so he can afford you...

Summary Roy, two by novices = split cost, two mates may = split cost (or if one mate is travelling ok - free). Very Good Nav may charge for the privilage (but they will only be looking at the quick chairs)

TT

[Roy]

But what if i have a race suit? The nav pays right?

[kimbod]

Very observant ROY. I am a shire boy. About 7 yrs ago I brought a pristine 94 gtst 4door 5 speed manual form Steve and Darron at Just jap and they have serviced that car which my son now has . 202,000 ks later it still on it's original turbo . I now have a 2000 V Spec N1 with a genuine 28,000 ks which I got through them. I have always found them to be and honest and trustworthy company, which by the way as you know is a sponsor of this forum. I would guess that a large number of people has talked to them and had items for there cars sold to them from Just Jap. I don't work for them I work at the Caltex

Now no matter what is said Targa is still a reliability rally/ time trial. espcially in the modern classes . The rules are there for a reason. you can rebuild , but you can't replace the major items, engine , gearbox, there is a number of tyres, etc.So if you don't have reliability you don't finish. Was that the reason a 5 speed gearbox was put in the car ,as they are stronger than the 6 speed. I am sure that if it had been noted on the entry forms and paperwork that this GTR R32 had a 5 speed they would not have been able to run. People complained about the Autech R32 in this forum. It was legally allowed by the organisers and scruiteneering had no problems with it or the numbers built, otherwise it would have not been able to start. How many of that spec Lambo's are in the world? Simple 1 car was legal, 1 car wasn't, because it didn't follow the rules

Again well done to all the crews

[Roy]

Careful "Shire" lad, dont hand out too much info, or us Guildford boys will come steal your N1, rob your house and do all sorts of horrible things to any pets you may have!

[poolheaters]

It certailnly is paramount to have a strong reliable car, especially if you want to have a crack.

The time put into a recce reflects directly on how well you do.

Keeping your mind absolutely "on it" for the duration is absolutely one of the hardest things I've done. I had a little "off" last year that proves what two five seconds lack of concentration can do.

The logistics of where and when to obtain fuel and juggle a service crew is also a challenge.

Then there's the fact you need a crew that can get on with eachother for two weeks in a car, its harder than you think, and the next navigator that simply gets out on a driver will not be the first.

Oh, and finally, you shouldn't crash.

Well said Ben, I couldn't agree more..

I've done many years of successful gravel rallying, and done about 7 targas, and I can assure everyone that Targa is the hardest event there is, especially if you are there to have a decent crack at it. The last 4 visits have been two car teams with me driving one, and I don't think I could do it again. The logistics are enormous! Just getting everything there from Brisbane is hard enough, & I have yet to find service crew, bless their dedicated hearts, that didn't want to kill each other after 7 days in a car together!

Recce can not be underated either. I have never done recce at Targa, always relying on bought notes, and I know during the event how much time it is costing us. Recce is another big cost towards doing the event though, and I never seem to have our cars ready in time. Maybe next year..

With regards to the navigators you guys have also wrapped it up pretty well. My gravel nav of many years is now trying to make it professionally overseas, and I think commands about $5k per event, although insurance takes a good 20% of this. I'm a wages earner, so every Targa is a battle financially, but I wouldn't expect a navigator to contribute to entry etc. Our deal normally involves them getting themselves there & back plus some help with accomodation.

When I first entered Targa, a chap that was with me on the Spirit a year previous said "If you are going in Targa, read the rules, read the rules, chose a car then read the rules again"

He was refering to Classic which runs on handicap, when a mod may mean you have to complete the stage 1se/k quicker than the opposition when it only gives you a .25sec performance gain.

I have taken that approach every year, even though modern is different it is the same... ie GTS-T (MS) 1300kg v GTR 1700kg (LMS) (R32 I'm Talking)

We did this a couple of years ago. Read the rules to death, looked at the handicaps, borrowed a mates Escort & fitted some good bits (that turned out to be not so good at all!), and against all odds ended up on the podium. Not the fastest Targa I will ever do, but probably the most rewarding.

We will be back for as long as they will have us

Cheers

Paul

[DJRIFT]

I wish i'd read all the sup regs in detail and not just the tech section in 09, as we got stuck in a stage, and ended up missing the next one. Derived time + pen would have been heaps better than the 40 mins of penalty we got.

no body call or e-mail Ben hes gona be studding up for a while.

[kimbod]

Well Roy. You showed what sort of idiot you are. If you have nothing constructive say don't say anything.

[N1GTR]

This technical check included measurement and visual inspection of various components of the engine, drive train and chassis, as well as datadot tyres, fuel test and engine stroke measurement.

How is this test carried out?

Ive always been curious how this is tested