Tarmac Rallying Perpetual Thread

[Marlin]

If they were he A048 yokies, they were rubbish cmpared to the RE55 and Dunlop at the time from my observations. Dunlop always seemed to be the tyre of choice. Although the new 050 seems to have bridged the gap and is a fast tyre and seems, from what Snowy has said, to be able to go the distance, especially if you get the odd wet day. I will be punting on a set of M yokies getting me through at leats 4 days.

Yeah the A050 is def the gun at the moment, just be careful not to overheat them.

I punished the rears at Mt Stuart Rally trying to beat a cheater Emo and blistered them badly, could have badly bent the car (near did) or worse, hurt my man Timmy (I'd never stick it in my side!).

[Snowman]

Benny - once you cooked the tyres did they come back after they cooled down? Or was that it for them?

[Marlin]

They came back but were well past their best. However, the stage wasn't long enough (9klm) to "cruise" for a section in the hope they came back in stage, I just stayed into it.

After a few punishing runs they blistered and I was pulling strips off them by hand..... I near binned it on the second last run, and had to cruise for the final run rather than risk one letting go altogether.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Marlin

[PHaT MR30]

Bare in mind benny that the road surface was fairly coarse chip stone which wouldn't have helped along with the temp on the day

[Marlin]

True true Timmy, true!

[Kel]

Time to update the thread title to 2011 with TWP just around the corner!

The injuries from my last (mis)adventure in an MX5 seem to have healed ok, so I'll be jumping back into another one with Matilda Mravicic. We're heading down for reccy next weekend (Jan 7-9) - will anyone else be about?

[Marlin]

I can only wish to do all the rallies you lot do!

[Snowman]

I'm in for TWP and for TT11 - but not sure how many more I will do in the future.

It's such a drain on time these events!

Mind you - my lack of motivation isn't being helped by the fact I still can't work out what is wrong with the new car. It feels really fast from the drivers seat - but its just not and I don't know why.

No time to play with it before TWP either. We did a test day late last year where we put the old shocks back in but that made no difference and its still over 1s/km slower than the old one even though it should be a whole bunch faster given its 150kgs lighter now.

The engine feels good and the car WAS fast on brand new tyres but on partly used tyres there is no speed at all. It's weird and annoying so I will just go off to TWP and see if I can't finish it for once and try and work it all out before TT.

[No Crust Racing]

I think you need to move from being an owner/driver to more of a Pit Boss.

In which case you'll need a driver, and lucky for you, I happen to be available...

Interesting what you're saying though, you'd think a fresh car and lighter weight would definitely translate well in times.

Is the car equal in terms of braking and engine power to the old one? How fresh are the diffs and transfer case?

[Snowman]

Car was essentially all the bits from the old car put into the new car.

However the rear diff is new (old one was shagged) - so that might be a possible problem. there might be something wrong with this "new" diff.

Also - the transfer case is a new one to the old car since its now the 6 speed box instead of the 5 speed one - but was freshened and shimmed.

However - the 4WD system seemed odd when we first drove the car (it was REALLY taily and was not transfering much power to the fronts at all). The old car was a V Spec - and this one is a non-V Spec so we initially swapped the 4WD controllers over between the cars since they ARE different - but we don't know what the actual difference between the 2 controllers is. The taily-ness went away but I don't know if we have created other issues. (We also did a few other things like re-bled the transfer case as well when we swapped the controllers so not sure WHAT we did to fix that problem).

[No Crust Racing]

I'm not sure about 34's but in 33 V-Specs the rear diff is an active LSD that can split torque left and right with more finesse. The ATTESSA is also the pro version in 33 vspec so it's faster/better etc.

I'm not sure what happens in 34s when you start swapping controllers and diffs around between v-spec and non v-spec versions, especially when you throw a new diff into the mix.

I'd at least be spending a few minutes just making sure all the bits you have want to play nice together, especially if you're thinking it's not throwing power up front like it should.

[Snowman]

Well the old car was a V Spec but I ran it with a Nismo mechanical diff (All the V Spec pumps and etc were gone).

So there should be no difference in that front. And the old car ran fine like that.

Its the ATTESSA side that I'm not sure about which was why we changed the controllers over. The controllers between the non-Vspec and the V-Spec do look different. But I'm not sure if the difference is solely in the controlling of the V Spec diff or if there is some difference in the ATTESSA side too. From what I have ready the ATTESSA ETS-Pro was standard on ALL R34 models (and R33 V Specs) So they should be the same.

The only main noticeable difference I got was I now have a red Active LSD light on my dash now that I plugged the other controller in. LOL

[No Crust Racing]

Interesting stuff, sounds like you've done the homework then.

You'd have to think that if we're headed in the right direction and it's a diff/attessa/ type issue that you might feel the car behaving more erraticly, but you said it came good after switching computers yeah?

When did you switch the computers over, have you run an event since?

Is your alignment the same as the old car more or less, specifically roll centres etc.

Again, I'd imagine you would "feel" this if there was something amiss in those departments but worth mentioning

[Beer Baron]

could it be the box? how are you finding the new ratios? maybe the old box was better suited to whatever circuits you are testing at? what diff ratios are you running now and what where you running before?

the R34 Vspec AWD system IS different to the R34 non-vspec. so there would definitely be some difference there. as you already know the a-lsd is rubbish though so you've done the right thing there by not running it. but if the new car is non-vspec why does it have a ALSD light on the dash? or are you running the old dash in the new car?

I feel your pain snowman. sometimes they will just not farking do what they are supposed to despite all the ingredients being there. it's enough to make you want to light it on fire!

[Snowman]

Its not the ratio's - I've run good times with the 6 speed back in the old says no worries. Infact the gearbox is a massive improvement I reckon - but it is probably half the reason why SOP it feels so damn fast now even though its not.

But Richard other than the rear diff HOW is the 4WD between the V Spec and non V Spec different? Are the G Sensors / wheel sensors etc different or the same?

I took the dash out of the old car because it was a fancy white Nismo 320km/hr jobby. It also meant my car instantly became 50,000kms newer! LOL But with the standard non-Vspec computer in it the LSD light didn't come on.

The thing that has me mostly beat is the whole "Fast on new tyres" thing. This is why we thought it was suspension. Because the car now on old tyres under-steers into corners and then moves to oversteer as soon as its neutral even before you even apply power. So we thought the problem was it was too soft - so we changed back to the old well known Teins that I still have with heavier springs and the car was no different and no faster (or slower).

I've got an old set of both Dunlop DZ03 R's and some A050 M's and it appears to be the same on both tyres so I'm not convinced its tyre related. But on brand new A050's the car hammers. But that could be simply because the tyres are masking the problem with general grippiness. But the speed only lasted half a day at THC and then it slowly got worse over the event as the tyres lost their edge. I know the alignment isn't quite the same for some reason (can't get as much camber and castor at the front into this new car for some reason) - but I can't see how that alone equals +3s/lap at Winton and Sandown.

I'm trying a different set of upper arms before TWP and if that doesn't work I will try swapping over the entire suspension and drive train out of a known fast car and see if that changes anything. LOL

[No Crust Racing]

I'd agree with the new tyres masking the issue until the fade, especially with the mid corner dynamics you explained. I'd have said it was a bit soft also but you've bagted that with using the other shocks and springs.

I'm curious to know why you can't match the camber and castor, that obviously shows something is different. Are you running the same shocks, arms, bushes, as the previous car? Was this chassis ever involved in a bingle? Was the chassis checked with a lazer when it was stripped? How do the towers look?

[Beer Baron]

Its not the ratio's - I've run good times with the 6 speed back in the old says no worries. Infact the gearbox is a massive improvement I reckon - but it is probably half the reason why SOP it feels so damn fast now even though its not.

But Richard other than the rear diff HOW is the 4WD between the V Spec and non V Spec different? Are the G Sensors / wheel sensors etc different or the same?

I took the dash out of the old car because it was a fancy white Nismo 320km/hr jobby. It also meant my car instantly became 50,000kms newer! LOL But with the standard non-Vspec computer in it the LSD light didn't come on.

The thing that has me mostly beat is the whole "Fast on new tyres" thing. This is why we thought it was suspension. Because the car now on old tyres under-steers into corners and then moves to oversteer as soon as its neutral even before you even apply power. So we thought the problem was it was too soft - so we changed back to the old well known Teins that I still have with heavier springs and the car was no different and no faster (or slower).

I've got an old set of both Dunlop DZ03 R's and some A050 M's and it appears to be the same on both tyres so I'm not convinced its tyre related. But on brand new A050's the car hammers. But that could be simply because the tyres are masking the problem with general grippiness. But the speed only lasted half a day at THC and then it slowly got worse over the event as the tyres lost their edge. I know the alignment isn't quite the same for some reason (can't get as much camber and castor at the front into this new car for some reason) - but I can't see how that alone equals +3s/lap at Winton and Sandown.

I'm trying a different set of upper arms before TWP and if that doesn't work I will try swapping over the entire suspension and drive train out of a known fast car and see if that changes anything. LOL

I have found the same parts on different cars don't always give the same alignment results. It's just one of those things of not all chassis being the same. but it does signal maybe something is not 100% right with the subframe possibly.

As far as I know the differences between R34 V and non V are in the ATTESA ECU only. wheel speed sensors/abs sensors are the same, all other inputs I believe are the same too. but there is definitely a difference between the ECU's in the 34's between V and non V.

it sounds like the new tyres are definitely covering up for a set-up problem somewhere. I can see the tighter ratios of the 6 speed would make it feel fast SOP too. what diff ratios are you running? 4.1? same as with the old box?

as far as any other differences between 34V and 34nonV driveline goes as far as I know the only big difference is in the ECU. pumps and transfers are the same, obviously one has the ALSD (which is rubbish anyway) but apart from that with your old V ecu in the new car that should have fixed a lot of it.

in the end the only way of solving it may be to swap all the subframes, transfer etc from your old car into the new one and see what the problem is. bit of a tough way to find pace though.

[blackrex]

What are your tyre temps looking like Snowy? that will give you a good idea on how the car is working the tyres.

[NickR33]

but I can't see how that alone equals +3s/lap at Winton and Sandown.

wow, that's a lifetime... surely that's more than just an alignment issue

can't be just a 4wd issue if your having trouble at corner entry and exit (before getting on the throttle)

you'd think at Sandown with the same power and less weight you'd be masking the cornering deficit with time made up on the straights

bloody cars

[sav man]

sounds like you need more powah!

what are your tow settings like?