Tarmac Rallying Perpetual Thread

[Bazil_1]

Woo,

Have now entered the 33 GTR into THC '11, TWP '12 and TT '12 .

The car's brakes are (hopefully) sorted out after last year when we ran out of brakes 2nd day at THC and 3rd stage at TWP, have a big new radiator on the way and car is significantly lighter (weighed in at 1620kg at THC).

Can't wait!

Now just have to get a new set of tyres in the next few weeks and change all the oils/filters/coolant... Had a good run with DZ03G's last year but with the price of A050s at the moment i think we might give them a go.

[Marlin]

Way to go mate! I bet you're amped!

[CycloneGTR]

How many Australian Tarmac Rally Series are there ?

we have the CAMS backed Octagon series, the CAMS backed ARCOM series, Mountain Motorsport series backed by AASA, Rally Tasmania i have heard they have some Americans involve so it is the World Series and the bloke at the newsagents down the road wants to promote an event that runs between the 2 roundabouts out the front of his shop and call it the miss universe......... or was he talking about something else.

Come on guys as a competitor, just one Australian Championship please ! or it means nothing.

[Marlin]

I think most would agree, THE Championship is the Octagon series.

[Darkside]

^^^^ Definately.

My thoughts were that was possibly part of the CAMS move. I think that is the only way to get an event sanctioned as a "national championship" with any creditbility and recognition. CAMS certainly has more of a public face than AASA. Although having competed in "the championship", admittedly not in the most high profile class, it seems a Targa Tas win outshines an Australian Tarmac Championship win. Case in point is most people would know Quinny won Targa but may not be so clear that Dean Herridge won the championship. The championship doesnt seem to have much profile.

Also as far as events go, I dont think you can question that Targa Tas is the holy grail of tarmac rally in Australia and the one everyone wants to win or be a part of. So the series with that in it is the pick of the bunch IMHO.

[PHaT MR30]

Does a certain mentioned organisation (no offense) actually run events? or just promote them, then cancel due to lack of numbers? Ive never been to a MM event, but in recent times ive seen them advertised and never get off the ground due to either running to close to another event or lack of entries?

[R34]

I was hoping to gain some useful info from those of you more up to date than me with regards to making a R33GTR competitive in Classic Rallys

While not a complete noob to competition years ago (yes I'm an "old" bloke) I am am new to GTR's in competition.

My weekend baby is a series III R33 which I ran in an event for the first time a couple of months ago.

The car managed a 7th in a field of 55 cars but I was getting a bit of push in the tighter corners (was an extremely tight course needing 1st and second gears only and not suited to the whale :-) )

Then the car was virtually standard running

Tein Flex coilovers

18x10.5 LMGT1's with 265.35-18 Continental Sportcontact 2 street tyres

After returning from holidays it was a last minute decision to enter the event so this week the following changes are being made

Wheel alignment

Whiteline front swaybar set to stiff

Whiteline rear swaybar set to stiff

Adjustable caster bushes

HICAS locked

Rear camber arms

Pineapple bushes in rear arms

I'm hoping for a big improvement but won't be able to try out the setup before the event.

So , (apologies for the long winded post)

Can any of you experts recommend what else I should do or offer some tips?

Swaybar settings?

Tyre pressures (I previously ran 40psi all around)

I've also been offered some used A048 semi slicks as I've run out of time to get something ex east.

With driving events lasting say a minute would they be worthwhile without getting hot enough?

Appreciate any advice

[djr81]

I was hoping to gain some useful info from those of you more up to date than me with regards to making a R33GTR competitive in Classic Rallys

While not a complete noob to competition years ago (yes I'm an "old" bloke) I am am new to GTR's in competition.

My weekend baby is a series III R33 which I ran in an event for the first time a couple of months ago.

The car managed a 7th in a field of 55 cars but I was getting a bit of push in the tighter corners (was an extremely tight course needing 1st and second gears only and not suited to the whale :-) )

Then the car was virtually standard running

Tein Flex coilovers

18x10.5 LMGT1's with 265.35-18 Continental Sportcontact 2 street tyres

After returning from holidays it was a last minute decision to enter the event so this week the following changes are being made

Wheel alignment

Whiteline front swaybar set to stiff

Whiteline rear swaybar set to stiff

Adjustable caster bushes

HICAS locked

Rear camber arms

Pineapple bushes in rear arms

I'm hoping for a big improvement but won't be able to try out the setup before the event.

So , (apologies for the long winded post)

Can any of you experts recommend what else I should do or offer some tips?

Swaybar settings?

Tyre pressures (I previously ran 40psi all around)

I've also been offered some used A048 semi slicks as I've run out of time to get something ex east.

With driving events lasting say a minute would they be worthwhile without getting hot enough?

Appreciate any advice

I would recommend the following:

Front sway bar on full soft, rear on full hard.

Wind as much neg camber into the front as you can. Set the castor so the tyre is in the middle of the guard. Run as much toe out at the front as you feel comfortable braking with & a little toe in at the rear (total 1mm from memory)

Take as much out of the rear camber as you like ie less negative.

Go and get some RE55's from Bridgestone tyres in Bentley (the motorsports distributors in WA) and use the Yokies to tie your yachtup with.

Run less than 40psi hot. Try 36 & get a proper guage not some $5 special from Supercheap. Revolution racegear have the good longacre ones.

Edited September 7, 2011 by djr81

[R34]

Thanks mate

Bridgestone couldn't get me any RE55's before friday unfortunately

[Darkside]

Can you get any Yokie A050? They are the tyre of choice at the moment IMHO. Run em at 34psi hot. A proper semi slick will definately gain you time even in the very short sprint stuff. Having an effective handbrake if you are familiar with handbrake turns can also help in the tighter stuff. Although Snowy and I proved in his 34 (when the handbrake broke) that quite often just getting round the corner tidily and then punching it can be almost as quick without the risk of over cooking a handbrakie.

Re setup, as suggested I would have thought a softer front bar and stiffer rear would help. Generaly a car that is slightly more prone to over steer and has sharp turn in is a better thing for the point and shoot stuff. maybe toe out on the rear, but probably not something to experiment with for the first time in competition as it can make it pretty loose and shake your confidence.

[Beer Baron]

I'll confirm DJR81s advise.

definitely start with bars set to front full soft and rear full hard. adjust from there if needed but it's unlikely you'll ever move the front off full soft.

especially for the tighter stuff you'll want a fair bit of toe out on the front (again as much as you're comfortable with as it can make the car a bit twitchy in the fast stuff). and rear to a bit toe in (i've tried 0 but it's a bit too lively even for me).

camber as much as you can get on the front (3.5neg would be nice) and castor a fair bit won't hurt but you'll be limited by guard clearance anyway.

rear camber, don't need much neg 1 or 1.5 degrees is usually enough.

and yeah 40psi way too much for semi-slicks even in a motokhana type course. 36psi hot is a good start and then adjust up and down from there as you need.

RE55s are great but A048s (even used ones) will still be miles better than the sportcontacts you have now so by all means use them if available. don't pay too much for them though as A048s are superseeded now and any used tyres and generally past their best anyway (hence them being for sale!).

enjoy.

[sav man]

We still have standard bars in our R33 GTR, and run 3.2 neg camber with the shorter N1 upper arms (not adjustable), but the car still wants more camber, as the outside of the tyres still chop out.

The Dunlop D03 or Yoki A050 are the best tyres at the moment. I run my D03's at 30psi hot. The RE55 is old, and probably the least compeditive semi on the market (been discontinued in most places in the world).

Keep the rear soft of towed in, and run the rear ride hight 5-10mm higher than the rear.

[R34]

Hi Darkside

Yes I can handbrake turn :-)

2mins 14 secs Bottom to top of the Zig Zag in a RX3 on rally tyres required a few of those.

After a months holiday and no pays I've just spent $2000 on suspension which doesn't leave much left for tyres.

A050's are my choice but at $2300 for a set compared to $800 for a used set of A048's is a bit of a no brainer this week.

So if the A048's are better than my Contis I may just go for them.

I've always liked oversteer in my cars but must admit that the GTR with all it's gadgetry just does not feel natural to me and intimidates me a bit. It's like I have to relearn something that I could do in my sleep previously

Edited September 7, 2011 by R34

[Darkside]

Hi Darkside

Yes I can handbrake turn :-)

2mins 14 secs Bottom to top of the Zig Zag in a RX3 on rally tyres required a few of those.

Cool. If you dont have a hydraulic handbrake, some performance handbrake shoes, like the project Mu ones are a goood thing.

A048's are rubbish, but should be better than a street tyre.

[Marlin]

I'd keep my $800 and run my street tyres before I wasted it on a set of used A048's to be honest.

I hope the guy offering them to you isn't a "mate" lol

[Snowman]

Yeah if you need to do lots of hand braking thing a set of Project Mu handbrake shoes are a god send.

They make it so much easier, work consistently (standard shoes overheat after 2-3 in a short period) - and from my experience in GT-R's work better than a hydraulic set-up.

[260DET]

Re rear toe on a plain multilink rear suspension, anyone tried using up to ten mm toe in? I tried ten mm around Lakeside, it feels like you have rear steer and certainly helps around the tighter corners. But I was concerned as to what might happen getting near the limit of adhesion with the outside tyre effectively angled in towards the apex of a corner.

Edited September 7, 2011 by 260DET

[R34]

Any idea of shockie settings?

The tein flex have 16 settings (from bloody hard to Fcn hell!)

I was thinkin of fronts half way and rears full "soft"

I've agreed to buy the A048's now for $700 so there's no backing out.

Hopefully they're better than the street tyres

[djr81]

We still have standard bars in our R33 GTR, and run 3.2 neg camber with the shorter N1 upper arms (not adjustable), but the car still wants more camber, as the outside of the tyres still chop out.

The Dunlop D03 or Yoki A050 are the best tyres at the moment. I run my D03's at 30psi hot. The RE55 is old, and probably the least compeditive semi on the market (been discontinued in most places in the world).

Keep the rear soft of towed in, and run the rear ride hight 5-10mm higher than the rear.

You will find if you run a harder anti roll bar the amount of neg camber you have to run is less.

The RE55 changed a few years back from SR to SR2 compound in the hards. Is that the discontinuity or are the SR2's on the way out also?

[Darkside]

In re 55 I was advised the SR and the SR2 were the dead same compound they just renamed it. Fark knows why they changed it.

http://www.bridgestone.com.au/tyres/motorsport/RE55s.aspx

Re your valving, its just a case of balancing the car. Snowy and I found a good industrial area car park after hours (dubbed "special place" ) is the ideal place for some practice. But what you are suggesting to me seems like its heading in the opposite direction of the stiff roll bar up front and soft at the rear. If you want the car to really rotate into turns, a softer front compression and stiffer rear should encourage the rear to come round. Just need to get a setup and go and try it. If its not right (too much over steer or understeer) just try heading in the opposite direction but maybe limit it to changes of one thing at one end at a time or you might get lost as to what is working. Rake on the car also makes a huge difference. Its kind of a lot to pull together at the last minute and expect it to be bang on. But at least the GTR guys here should be able to get you in the ball park.

Take what I am saying with a pinch of salt though as I havnt had much expewrience setting up GTR's. But the last time I drove snowies in this type of competition it was awesome!!