Tarmac Rallying Perpetual Thread

[Snowman]

The late time wasn't 15 total - it was 15 to lunch and 15 after.

But still even other than Gunns Plains we noticed we JUST made some of the in times even without stopping for fuel or anything. It got so worrisome that we even stopped pulling over after stages to put our helmets in the back of the car which is just crazy. I wasn't even prepared to stop to get something to eat and drink on the Sat for fear of the late time!

I'm not experienced enough to know what is right or wrong penalty wise but it seems crazy to me that people who were 5mins over late after a stage got the same penalty as say Tony Warren who completely missed 3 stages.

Anyways - as a side issue I put together some of the highlights from our adventures.

[Marlin]

Yeah, 15 mins before and after is correct as the Snowy says above.

I'm certain they'll look at it again for following events. As has been said many times, the penalty just didn't match the "crime".

[Nee-san]

The late time wasn't 15 total - it was 15 to lunch and 15 after.

But still even other than Gunns Plains we noticed we JUST made some of the in times even without stopping for fuel or anything. It got so worrisome that we even stopped pulling over after stages to put our helmets in the back of the car which is just crazy. I wasn't even prepared to stop to get something to eat and drink on the Sat for fear of the late time!

I'm not experienced enough to know what is right or wrong penalty wise but it seems crazy to me that people who were 5mins over late after a stage got the same penalty as say Tony Warren who completely missed 3 stages.

Anyways - as a side issue I put together some of the highlights from our adventures.

"Don't look or point, put your hand on the wheel" - LOL.

[sav man]

I only just looked at warrens times, far out him times were impressive once he got the car going again.

[Marlin]

So true Ben!

I spoke to him the morning of Day 5. He was asking if his penalty was in fact 20 mins or if he would be stung with 20 mins per missed stage (60 in total). I could confirm for him it was "just" 20 total.

He told me how far behind a podium he was, and I kind of asked him tongue in cheek if he could regain it for a podium. Well, did he have a crack or what!?!? Made it not just to the podium, but to 2nd! An amazing effort I think!

[Nee-san]

What do people mean by "clearing" the stage ?

[Snowman]

If you look at the results of say High Plains this year

http://www.rallyresults.com.au/targa/TT2011/showStaget.asp?paramVal4=0&paramVal3=3&paramVal2=17&rVal=4520&paramVal1=5

You will see that there is a "base time" of 2mins.

Your official time for the stage is every second over 2mins. So if you can do the stage in under 2mins you have cleared the stage.

[NickR33]

okay so if you go under 2min you just get 2min as your recorded time

incidentally what's the purpose for having a 'base time'?

[Snowman]

No you get 0 as your recorded time. Your total Targa time is always your accumulated time over the base times.

The idea (I presume) - especially over the first few days where the pointy guys all clear a number of stages is to keep the competition closer for longer.

It also means the numbers at the end are more easily handled. So for example your total end time might be 11mins 28s rather than 2hrs, 42mins and 28s.

[Marlin]

EDIT: SnowChamp beat me to it )

No Nick, if you go under 2 mins you don't get any "penalty" time...... going 30 seconds under is no use, only using up the car for no reason.

Basically, the crew with the lest amount of penalty time at event end are the winners.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Marlin

[Nee-san]

Ok thanks guys makes sense now,

But,

Who sets the base time ?

What if you two cars both go under the base time for every stage, or is the base time made so ridiculous you couldn't even do it in a grand prix car or something ?

[Snowman]

haha - yeah it's not an issue.

There are some that no-one is getting near. And the car that won outright still had over 20mins worth of penalty time (or total time over base if you like).

[Targa Tom]

Late time, 999 and 300 cars - 30sec intervals, que jumping, Prologue - seeding order. Good luck with that!!!

The whole thing is very complex and I bet has caused some rowdy meetings. 2010 we saw the derived farce, now this year - a couple of heart breakers. However when we do these events, we have the guidlines in place.

Late time is always going to be a problem when the stages are close - cos transport has no margin for error. A-A would not allow any servicing and with such a huge field - cant see it working. I think the 30 + 30 min is workable and allows for the guys in classic to also do repairs on the run.

Was the 15 + 15 this year fair - it was in the regs which the event was started under, but maybe it needs some work. One thing Targa should not be is easy... should a mid stage incident be penalised the same as a mech failure due to wear and tear? Somehow I dont think everyone will be happy all of the time.

Dont forget - even with a late time penalty, you can still get your plate... and that after all is what its all about. You just dont get the headlines or podium - so maybe it is OK

Sometimes the ideal solution does not exist.

TT

Edited April 18, 2011 by Targa Tom

[Marlin]

I tend to agree Greg, there will never be a perfect solution.

But, my strong feeling is this, and its the way I've always approached the event, FEAR the 999 car and never use late time if you can avoid it! ...... thats one reason I drove back through that bloody fence all that time ago, I didn't want to accrue any late penalties and knew she was still good to go!

As you say, Targa shouldn't be easy. It should (and does in it's current form) reward good preperation, performance, and durability.

The way I see it, if you miss a stage, for whatever reason, your campaign really should be over right there. It adds to the pressure, and I like that.

It is however good to be able to rejoin and try to at least finish, which as we know, is a feat in itself.

[poolheaters]

Late time, 999 and 300 cars - 30sec intervals, que jumping, Prologue - seeding order. Good luck with that!!!

The whole thing is very complex and I bet has caused some rowdy meetings. 2010 we saw the derived farce, now this year - a couple of heart breakers. However when we do these events, we have the guidlines in place.

Late time is always going to be a problem when the stages are close - cos transport has no margin for error. A-A would not allow any servicing and with such a huge field - cant see it working. I think the 30 + 30 min is workable and allows for the guys in classic to also do repairs on the run.

From an outside perspective since i didn't compete last year or this year, I agree that after the derived time use of 2010 something had to change. The drop to 15mins did seem to make things pretty tight though? For the female competitors, just trying to find time and place for a toilet stop in a transport stage put massive pressure on them to stay within late time..

I guess maybe Octagon is trying to keep all the competitors who are within late time in front of the 999 car? It has happenned over the years in other Tarmc events that some of the later running, and therefore leading cars, have experienced a mechanical problem and dropped behind the 999 car but still within late time and still received respectable derived times while saving the car..

As mentioned in another post earlier, we have always had the navigator record the time we pull up at a stage start just in case.

From memory the classics did have 30mins late time this year, only the moderns were dropped to 15mins?

To Edit: Having just read Ben's post above, I agree that if you miss a stage you shouldn't be able to finish ahead of a car that has finished all stages.

Paul

Edited April 18, 2011 by poolheaters

[Marlin]

As you say Paul, 15 mins can be a little too tight for the girls who need to find a good place to stop.

Spare a thought for the girls right down the back, 999 breathing down their neck while they're trying to find a good place to wee! LOL

[poolheaters]

Yeah I hear the start of Arrowsmith had cars banked up accross the long bridge there and Erik (nav) said it was funny watching the drivers walk over to the bridge railing and see who was or wasn't too shy to pee off the bridge. At some of the rounds of the ARC's we have done they have port-a-loos at the start of some stages for the ladies.

I remember at Classic Adelaide quite a few years ago sitting behind one of the leading cars and seeing the female co-driver, who wore a 2 piece race suit, simply drop the pants while still in the car and just stick her bum out the door to pee. Very quick and a trick she had learnt in the African Safari due to safety reasons apparently...

Getting a bit off topic though sorry.

[NickR33]

haha man I learn a lot from this thread... peeing while mid-rally included

[Darkside]

^^^^ Hmmm,

maybe the missus needs to work on that.

But definately was tough on her. Easier for the blokes to book in and then make use of the time in the queue.

It was such an issue for the missus that she was choosing not to drink and hydrate properly because having a toilet break was too hard. Ideally thats not a situation the rules should be creating. We agreed that a portaloo roughly mid morning and mid afternoon wouldnt be such a bad idea, even if it was just for the ladies as there are a fair number in the field.

After seeing other crews run into late time issues, and having Greg explain exactly what it was all about, the missus was right on to it, so felt under even more presssure not to blow any time on the side of the road having a comfort stop.

[PHaT MR30]

I know most of you guys are on E85, but how good was it pulling into St Helens and finding they had no 98!!!

Made me think there and then its worth the money to have more than one service crew/get fuel from a supplier right there!