Tarmac Rallying Perpetual Thread

[Marlin]

Maybe you meant the V70A? They're a gun tyre in the wet.

[Bazil_1]

Maybe you meant the V70A? They're a gun tyre in the wet.

Hmm could have been, i guess it's still a gamble though. If it dried out we would get smoked by everyone on semis... Plus would have to adjust driving style to suit two different tyres on different surfaces.

[Marlin]

I was at the day 5 lunch break in Queenstown in 2006 (maybe?) and I think at that stage Steve Glenney was coming either 1st or 2nd? His car was up in the air with the crew desperately trying to regrease his sticking Proflex. A scrutineer was intensly examining all his tyres, and he said to Steve "Mate, I only need to find 1.5mm somewhere on one tyre and you can keep running"

This 1.5mm couldn't be found, and faced with the expense of more tyres and the appropriate penalty to go with it, Steve chose to withdraw. But he gladly copped it on the chin, saying they gambled on softer tyres for the speed, and only needed a bit more rain and it would have worked. This is one of the things that makes Targa what is in my opinion..

My thoughts are that 6 tyres for TT12 would have been a good option. Make everyone think and manage their tyres vs speed. Same as the Bens, 8 tyres for us would have really pushed the affordability.

You know mate, the more I think about it, the more I think reverting back to 4 tyres is the go.

If you're worried about getting through, just run Hards, most of us used to if we thought it was be a dry 5 day event.

In addition to the 4 you start with, how about this?

You get another 2 tyres marked with your number.

ONE tyre is a "spare". If you have a puncture you cannot repair, you can use that spare without penalty, but MUST surrender the damaged tyre to the organisers for the event's duration. You can have it back afterwards.

The second marked tyre can be used at any time, but you will be time penalised for doing so. (Maybe the traditional 2 minute penalty needs to be discussed?)

I think it's high time there is ONE official on the ground at the events who is responsible for keeping track of all tyre related issues. Give that person a couple of minions if needed for running around. And tyres absolutely must be data dotted per vehicle.

[Marlin]

Hmm could have been, i guess it's still a gamble though. If it dried out we would get smoked by everyone on semis... Plus would have to adjust driving style to suit two different tyres on different surfaces.

The V70A isn't a "slow" tyre, but it's not the fastest tyre on a heavier car. Sullens has won twice on them

Where they DO excel even on heavier cars like yours is in the wet. We ran them on both a bug-eye STi (1810kg) and a 34GTR (1870kg) and in the really grotty wet conditions, they were awesome. But, they're about 1 second per klm slower than an A050 or DZ03G in the dry.

[sav man]

I think they should data dot all tyres, and have them checked at the start of every stage. Just like they check your helmets and lights... Etc

If you are only looking after 1 car, you can see your car at the start and finish of 70% of the stages. No need for choppers.

[poolheaters]

The V70A isn't a "slow" tyre, but it's not the fastest tyre on a heavier car. Sullens has won twice on them

Where they DO excel even on heavier cars like yours is in the wet. We ran them on both a bug-eye STi (1810kg) and a 34GTR (1870kg) and in the really grotty wet conditions, they were awesome. But, they're about 1 second per klm slower than an A050 or DZ03G in the dry.

I may choose to differ on this one. We have used the V70A on the RX3 (softs), Melinda's WRX (mediums), and on the R33 GTR (hards). The softs and mediums worked well, with good grip in both dry and wet, but not the same "feel" as the Dunlop or Yoki. But the hards on the GTR were utter crap. I have honestly never used a worst tyre! They took ages to warm up, had a small window of goodness, and then over the edge they would go. Super weak sidewalls too. We had rim damage from the rims contacting the road on heavy cornering. We were running around the same pace as Rick Shaw but doing it really tough, and spending bulk time every transport trying to manage pressures to keep them in the zone. Very tressful indeed. Its easy to let air out but no so easy to put it back in when you are in the middle of nowhere.*

I did notice after the event that the tyres we had been supplied were over two years old from manufacture, maybe had a small part to do with it?

I have been told over a beer or 3 at the Targa Bar that some previous outright competitors have used multiple sets of tyres during the event. Known to the Targa heirachy but impossible to prove due to lack of manpower? This could be pisstalk or underdog bashing like we all dislike, or it could be quite true? It did come from someone that would know.. Anyhoo, compounds Ben's theory that going to the 8 tyres is going to be dam near impossible to police, as no one will think twice if a new set of tyres appear on a car? Seems a long way from 10 years ago when everyone ran hards, you set them at 32psi on the first day, and never looked at them again...

* I have a new theory of fitting a small on board compressor for the next Targa. Quality item from US (similar to the one on our air bag trailer), would weigh under 2kg and give the opportunity to manage tyre pressures between stages if dry then wet. Service stations are nearly impossible to find and unreliable, and we will never have service crew at the end of every stage.. Just a thought

Edited February 22, 2012 by poolheaters

[Duncan]

Seems a long way from 10 years ago when everyone ran hards, you set them at 32psi on the first day, and never looked at them again...

+1, and I totally agree with ben too.

8 tyres means:

More cost

Bigger crashes (yes, you'll be going faster when you come off)

More likely to have a major safety incident between stages (tyre changes in unsafe locations)

Where is the upside? Pick a slower tyre that would last the whole event, and if you get unlucky and have a puncture....well since when has a rally not included luck?

[PHaT MR30]

Unless there's a helicopter - rotor turning, highly unlikely situation imho.

Said before, if whingers need the extras on the grounds of safety, carry them as targa of old......East Africa style if necessary!

Toyota Had a helicopter following Neal bates around back in the days of the Celica's

[Marlin]

I may choose to differ on this one. We have used the V70A on the RX3 (softs), Melinda's WRX (mediums), and on the R33 GTR (hards). The softs and mediums worked well, with good grip in both dry and wet, but not the same "feel" as the Dunlop or Yoki. But the hards on the GTR were utter crap. I have honestly never used a worst tyre! They took ages to warm up, had a small window of goodness, and then over the edge they would go. Super weak sidewalls too. We had rim damage from the rims contacting the road on heavy cornering. We were running around the same pace as Rick Shaw but doing it really tough, and spending bulk time every transport trying to manage pressures to keep them in the zone. Very tressful indeed. Its easy to let air out but no so easy to put it back in when you are in the middle of nowhere.*

I did notice after the event that the tyres we had been supplied were over two years old from manufacture, maybe had a small part to do with it?

I have been told over a beer or 3 at the Targa Bar that some previous outright competitors have used multiple sets of tyres during the event. Known to the Targa heirachy but impossible to prove due to lack of manpower? This could be pisstalk or underdog bashing like we all dislike, or it could be quite true? It did come from someone that would know.. Anyhoo, compounds Ben's theory that going to the 8 tyres is going to be dam near impossible to police, as no one will think twice if a new set of tyres appear on a car? Seems a long way from 10 years ago when everyone ran hards, you set them at 32psi on the first day, and never looked at them again...

* I have a new theory of fitting a small on board compressor for the next Targa. Quality item from US (similar to the one on our air bag trailer), would weigh under 2kg and give the opportunity to manage tyre pressures between stages if dry then wet. Service stations are nearly impossible to find and unreliable, and we will never have service crew at the end of every stage.. Just a thought

Hey Paul. I'll never doubt anything you say or post mate, so there's no harm in disagreeing with me.

Your experience is different to mine, maybe it was something to do with the GTR's rubber being so old? I will say we found the V70A a difficult tyre to understand and get the best from, and they have definately been left behind for dry performance. But I still reckon, in the wet, they're pretty awesome. It's the road car like pattern that does it for them, which is their limiting factor in the dry.

And yes, I know exactly what you're saying re the "some previous outright competitors have used multiple sets of tyres during the event".... I know exactly what you're talking about.

How's this one, I know for a FACT that one front running competitor was audacious enough to bolt on a set of fresh Super Softs prior to Hellyer Gorge in 2009, and swapped them back straight afterwards, setting an outrageously fast time, and leaving other competitors scratching their collective heads and no doubt taking bigger risks in an effort to combat the cheater...... Seriously, if winning something is that important to you, go tournament game fishing or something, and just throw tags over the side and pretend you caught the fish.

It just highlights the need for a dedicated tyre manager for the event. Someone who has a few keen eyes placed around the place. Heck, those eyes could even be highly regarded people from service crews...... these guys see a lot!

[PHaT MR30]

Gavin had problems in 2009 with V70's collapsing in the sidewall on Arrowsmith. This in ~1280Kg 944. Khumo admitted there was a problem (didn't say if it was age or failure and gave him another set for free).

And Brian who I am doing Cradle Coast with this weekend in a similar 944 used v70's at the first THC in 2010 and after the event the tyres showed signs of sidewall failure. Has since gone to Yoki A050 M's and is getting a few events out of them (not to mention a lot more pace!)

[Marlin]

Quality control issues by the sound of it, steer clear!

[sav man]

Another thought, how many teams will have their spare tyres carried in tyre warmers? The rules say it's not allowed, but I can't see it being possable to police.

[Marlin]

Tyre warmers.... in a helicopter!!!!!!

[sav man]

That's brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!

[Marlin]

Ok, tell me I'm being silly..... Discuss!

http://my105.com/ListingDetails/tabid/65/p/1/cid/522/id/6772/Default.aspx

[paulR32gtr]

Omnomnomnom ... thats the most logical argument to get it I can come up with.

Far cry from from $600 wrecker motors, but on the other hand ... omnomom.

[phunky_monkey]

...buy it...

[R31Nismoid]

Ok, tell me I'm being silly..... Discuss!

http://my105.com/ListingDetails/tabid/65/p/1/cid/522/id/6772/Default.aspx

Wow... That is cheap!

Not a fan of the "NUR" motor, which still has all the terrible points of a factory RB that leads to death...

But still cheap!

[paulR32gtr]

Not a fan of the "NUR" motor, which still has all the terrible points of a factory RB that leads to death...

Yeah bound to cause issues at some point. But for the price, no doubt with your connections Woo you could have a decent motor together easily when she goes bang.

Buying a car off Kevin 'Bloody' Wilson sounds like a good idea to me too.

Now buy it before I come up with some whacked out reason why I should.

[trez]

Ok, tell me I'm being silly..... Discuss!

http://my105.com/ListingDetails/tabid/65/p/1/cid/522/id/6772/Default.aspx

Least it comes with 8 rims, you’ll be set for TT and some fancy tyre antics!!