Replacement For V8 Supercar Rules?

[GTR-N1]

Whilst Ford is cutting out of funding of V8 Supercars & Whilst the writing is on the wall for GM $$

Would you (in place of Cochrane)...

i) change the rules to allow other V8s like BMW M3, Audi to come into a new category

ii) run the Touring Car C'ship like the Japanese Super GT or

iii) something else like the GTs here with Porsche, Nissan, Lamborghini, Audi, Ferrari??

I mean, what would you like to see running around Bathurst each October?

[hrd-hr30]

I think its much more likely to become something like NASCAR, with a spec spaceframe chassis and drivetrain (which they've almost already got) and bodywork 'representative' of whatever manufacturer you want.

Something along the lines of Super GT with Australian delivered cars would be awesome, but I can't see it happening.

[Marlin]

I've put a solid 5 minutes into thinking about this over the weekend and I'll float my idea....

1. Keep the current V8's running around for say, five to seven years. My gut tells me that any longer than that just won't be viable nor will it be socially acceptable (or at least appear that way re V8's and fuel etc... dah dah dah)

2. In the meantime, introduce an additional class to run beside the V8's. I'm suggesting a silhoette formula based on Blueprint, utilising all the current running gear of Hollinger and 9" diff, but with a capacity limit of 3.5 litres, rev limit of 8,500, and six cylinders. Weight limit to be set during development but heavy enough (or light enough for that matter) to be 1 second per lap slower than the V8's. I could see the possibility of a few manufacturers joining in.

3. When the V8 is eventually killed off, introduce a 4 cylinder class, using a similar formula to make them that little bit slower than the V6's, and maybe some cheaper/lighter running gear to keep the costs down.

I reckon, and please don't mega-flame me because I haven't really thought that much about it, that this could, and i stress could make the racing cheaper and more inline with what current thinking is in the marketplace. Adopting something like this will see a natural progression to lighter/smaller engined cars (and some visual variety), and can see the possibility of it morphing, by say, 2015 onwards, into basically a 4 cylinder version of Nascar where the cars are relatively cheap to build, repair, and importantly, make look different from eachother.

Oh, and NO WINGS.

[Roy]

Whilst Ford is cutting out of funding of V8 Supercars & Whilst the writing is on the wall for GM $$

Would you (in place of Cochrane)...

i) change the rules to allow other V8s like BMW M3, Audi to come into a new category

ii) run the Touring Car C'ship like the Japanese Super GT or

iii) something else like the GTs here with Porsche, Nissan, Lamborghini, Audi, Ferrari??

I mean, what would you like to see running around Bathurst each October?

i) Here is the thing, BMW, Audi etc would not be interested in throwing the money at an Australian team so that they can race their cars in our series. Its debatable whether Toyota would even be bothered. They are already the countries biggest volume selling manufacturer. So with no factory support for the cars and teams, it leaces teams paying for the development cost....only to have problems with equality accross the makes.

ii) No way is there any point to us running a GT type championship. Again if Holden and Ford are shy of the dollars for V8s, they dont want anything to do with the cost of GT cars. So that means that in order to get chassis to run the local teams will become a dumping ground for Europes superseded chassis'. Not a good thing since technically we have some of the smartest and best touring car teams and engineers in the world. And dont think small grids of old GT cars from OS is going to be a good series.

iii) The only real alternative i see is a form of production car racing with different classes, under / over 2.5L etc

So i have asked this elsewhere, who actually has a tin top series that is great to watch with interesting cars? Credit where credit is due, the local product is very good touring car racing.

As hrd said, a control chassis with a bin of control engines etc is really the best option. That means provate teams can run whatever shell they want, and wont require big dollars from a manufacturer to develop the car. There is enough debate over aero between two makes, so if more makes are going to be in the mix then control chassis will be needed. Teams can shorten track and wheelbase to suit the panbels/model they want to run, and also may influence the weight they run. This way disgruntled Triple 888 and DJR could easily run Aurion panels with their choice of engines.

BUT, here is the big thing. Who is to say Toyota or any other manufacturer are going to be happy for a team to start using one of their branding on a race car? Who is to say that if whichever manbufacturer is getting their ass kicked they dont site ownership of marketing rights to the car , name and team etc?

Grass is always greener...but be careful its not only green because of the amount of shit on the other side

Sine Gp A dies off Aus has probably had the longest running and most successful tin top series. Maybe its time for another global series that is of interest to various manufacturers?

[madbung]

The worlds first alternative fuel series..

It'll happen sooner or later, some added pressure on the manufacturers and exposure to the motorsport public couldn't hurt.

Classes within the series..Electric, hydrogen, hybrid ect... handicapped by weight to kw output.

Edited July 14, 2008 by madbung

[Duncan]

I reckon you are onto something Marlin. that would open it to other manufacturers, and once all the v8s are dead you can upspec the other cars. we know the JGTC cars are quicker than the supertaxis and they have power limits (restrictors).

Then add madbung's idea for a 3 class championship of say 30 cars. That way they are looking to the future.

BTW I feel part of the forum now I have posted in one of your threads terry

[Russman]

Yeah controlled chassis and engines with different panels would work I reckon. Keep the V8 engines though. That way it will keep the bogans interested. Could still call them V8 supercars too.

I really enjoy the current setup so wouldn't like it to change much.

[Roy]

I noticed Terry has been on a post-a-thon

But here is the thing. Its motorsport and the class thing? How many teams are going to want to build a car for a lower/slower class. Sure it could be viable, but i dont see the big teams getting behind it.

[Russman]

Yeah I've never liked lots of classes at the same time.

You won the slow class... woopee! Noone cares.

As a spectator all I care about is the outright fastest.

[Marco-R34GTT]

Control tyre must go to, maybe introduce a limit of 2 or maybe 3 suppliers..

[Marlin]

Thats kinda what I'm saying, let the V8's run their natural course and die out, meanwhile a V6 class is developing. Once the V8's are dead, the V6 class becomes the "fast class", and introduce the 4 cylinder class to run beside them. Eventually, phase out the 6 cylinders and run only the fours, with cheap Nascar style chassis etc...... It's like a natural progression of phasing out the big bangers within a fixed timeline, so that big banger teams can at least budget for "the end".

[djr81]

Control tyre must go to, maybe introduce a limit of 2 or maybe 3 suppliers..

Do you remember what the V8 racing was like before they introduced the control tyre? I do. It was rubbish. Basically at the end unless you were on Bridgstone rubber and on their development rubber at that you had no chance. So it meant that HRT & GSR won most events. Dunlop never recovered from the Kobe earthquake & Yokohama never had the wherewithal to compete on even terms with Bridgestone. Hoosier was the only other company to try & their attempt was laughable.

So a tyre supply contract ended up being the most important arbiter of a teams competitiveness. It also meant that only a few teams had any real chance of competing at the top level. Getting rid of tyre competition & replacing the tyres with a single, control tyre was one of the key changes that allowed the growth of the series.

[Roy]

But why get rid of the V8s? If you are running the big shells and weight then you need the displacement. So either let the V8s run, as a racing motor they are fine and dont need to be related to the road going models. Or, move to a smaller platform which means 350hp V6s are enough to make the things interesting to drive, rather then underpowered, over tyred Poop Boxes

[Marco-R34GTT]

Dunlop seems to be doing alright now having the V8's all tied up...

Maybe we need someone like Michelin/Pirelli/Avon/Federal/Toyo to compete with Bridgestone..

[Marlin]

Yes I remember when tyres were open and I totally agree, it WAS rubbish. Control tyre made it much more interesting.

Roy, I'm only saying plan to lose the V8's because I believe that's what the greater public will expect in future as it becomes less socially acceptable to race such cars. I know it's rediculous, but the public perception is they use too much resources and therefore it'll be harder in future to attract mainstream sponsors to the V8's.

As I say above, I see the V6's to be a kind of stepping stone toward a smaller, lighter, 4 cylinder class. Heck, they could be powered by recycled newspaper for all I care, I'm just saying that's where it should be heading re public perception and sponsorship.

[Marco-R34GTT]

Well in that case, keep the one supplier, but provide some different compounds, soft, mediums, hards and inters... Even if they provide just a 'softish' and 'hardish' tyre... Spice is up a little bit...

[Duncan]

sorry but I'm a strong beleiver in control tyres too. tyres choices make it very expensive for teams because they can't win unless they are on the best rubber.

[Roy]

RE the publics perception of the V8s. I hear you, but personally i think even if the engines are pulled from road cars etc, people will be even keener to see the big bangers continue to be raced. I just think thats the way the flag blows and will continue to do so.

I suppose its important to distinguish between public perception and racing fans. Not really peas in the same pod. Racing will never be green , and i think the trend for road cars to go green will mean motorsport will hold onto the old guard as long as possible, and fans will love it as it will remember them of the golden days of when anyone could own a 6L Chev road car. So when we are all running around in 1.8L turbo diesels i think the appeal of the big V8s will be even greater.??????

[Whiplash]

sorry but I'm a strong beleiver in control tyres too. tyres choices make it very expensive for teams because they can't win unless they are on the best rubber.

in the control tyre formula works well in a category where the cars are all very similar if not identical which the v8's seem to becoming.

personally i would love a sports sedan / silhouette formula to come through a full production category will be too hard to maintain with only fords and holdens at the top level

[BezerkR32]

i dont know if you guys remember the 2 litre series that was run years ago, it was the biggest flop. I watched a round at Oran Park and it was boring. I watched the V8s at Melbourne at the beginning of the year and the racing was great and they sound tough. they are irraplacable. Maybe some sort of sallary cap is required. I know they limit testing at the moment but more is needed. It is fun for us to watch or drive in lesser classes because we have some kind of involvement but to pay money to go and watch your four cylinders run around, im not sure. Maybe bring back the good old days when 3 classes ran in the same endurance races, 4s, 6s & 8s at bathurst for e.g. The BMW drivers spent most of there time looking in the mirrors to see what was about to devour them, that was racing. And yes the Skylines dominated and owned all......

Thats kinda what I'm saying, let the V8's run their natural course and die out, meanwhile a V6 class is developing. Once the V8's are dead, the V6 class becomes the "fast class", and introduce the 4 cylinder class to run beside them. Eventually, phase out the 6 cylinders and run only the fours, with cheap Nascar style chassis etc...... It's like a natural progression of phasing out the big bangers within a fixed timeline, so that big banger teams can at least budget for "the end".