External Harddrive With Headunit

[RANDY]

Another update:

Just found a 60Gb IBM HDD in a spare laptop. It's 4200RPM, but according to the label it still requires 1amp at 5 volts. It didn't work formatted as a 30Gb FAT32 disk. Tried with laptop power also (which spins the disk up, but no reading of mp3 files)

[ZFA57]

dont external desktop hard drives have a power adapter which you have to plug into mains power? Have you tried a portable hard drive which only has one usb connection? need to know what works too, coz I just purchased an Alpine iDA-X100 head unit.

[RANDY]

External *desktop* drives do... yes. We're all talking about 2.5" laptop hard drives in USB cases.

Whether the physical USB cable has only one or two connections is generally a moot question though, as the additional USB cable is purely there incase your system is unable to power it from one. I have never *ever* needed to use the secondary (power-only) USB end of any of my USB hard drives... and it doesn't seem to make any difference with this headunit either.

I suppose if a manufacturer put out a branded USB hard drive (like Maxtor and LaCie) with only one USB connection, then i'd assume that the manufacturer designed the device to work from very little power to the point where a secondary connection would never need to be used. As for me, i'm using a Seagate 5400rpm notebook disk in a very generic case that works just fine from every machine i've ever plugged it into with only one USB connection used. It could very well be a power issue still, but it's odd that my laptop and the headunit together wouldn't get it recognised.

[G0DZLR]

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_p...roducts_id=7195

no USB required for car integration just a LCD headunit..

even has a 12V car adaptor included..

[daisu]

When you plug the external hard drive into your computer, does it come up as a mass storage device? I would think it would have to, to be compatible with your head unit.

[G0DZLR]

^ true.

it may sound too simple but it is a possibility. headunits arnt likely to pick up something if its been formatted as just a hard drive. looking in computer management (vista) there is an option when you format a drive connected via USB, to be formatted in "exFAT", which i assume is why windows sees USB flash drives as "Removeable Storage" and not just more normal drives.

in theory, formatting in exFAT should make the drive visible to a headunit, in THEORY (not proven)

[RANDY]

Another update: I've tried with a cigarette adapter to USB power. It's rated for 1amp draw... which is what the HDD requires according to the label on it.

AFAIK, exFAT is an extended partition instead of a primary partition. In theory, it should be a primary partition. I'm not formatting the HDD any differently to the way I format a USB key. I will try an extended partition anyway and let everyone know.

[Stagea_Neo]

1. Dont use partition magic, it's crap.

2. Definitely will need the usb cable/double adapterbit plugged into a separate powered usb port.

Check out Jaycar :

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?I...te&SPECIAL=

&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=

3. Format the drive using the Disk Manger found under the Adminstration Tools in WinXP, then assign it a drive letter.

(cant remember if you have to mount the volume, it;s been a little while....maybe automatic)

4. After you have copied the mp3's onto the hard drive , use the 'safe device removal' option to stop the usb device

before removing it from your pc. Look at the bottom right of screen near the time. you will see a green arrow type icon

'safely remove hardware' click on it then select your hard drive to stop/disconnect.

Reason I mention this step, I believe the pc you formatted it on as put it's permission on the drive and only giving read access

to the drive when connected to other devices. Normally see this happen when you take a extenal hard drive formatted with

NTFS and connect it to a unix box. it cracks the shits and wont read/write, even though it should at least read.

5. Connect it to the head unit then all should be fine.

[RANDY]

1. Dont use partition magic, it's crap.

2. Definitely will need the usb cable/double adapterbit plugged into a separate powered usb port.

Check out Jaycar :

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?I...te&SPECIAL=

&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=

3. Format the drive using the Disk Manger found under the Adminstration Tools in WinXP, then assign it a drive letter.

(cant remember if you have to mount the volume, it;s been a little while....maybe automatic)

4. After you have copied the mp3's onto the hard drive , use the 'safe device removal' option to stop the usb device

before removing it from your pc. Look at the bottom right of screen near the time. you will see a green arrow type icon

'safely remove hardware' click on it then select your hard drive to stop/disconnect.

Reason I mention this step, I believe the pc you formatted it on as put it's permission on the drive and only giving read access

to the drive when connected to other devices. Normally see this happen when you take a extenal hard drive formatted with

NTFS and connect it to a unix box. it cracks the shits and wont read/write, even though it should at least read.

5. Connect it to the head unit then all should be fine.

So this has worked for you? Because:

1) I don't, as mentioned above.

2) That is the exact item I used, plus my laptop USB as another test, as mentioned above.

3) That's what i've been doing, as mentioned above.

4) The drive must be FAT32... there are no security permissions with that format... as mentioned above.

5) It most certainly isn't... for ANYONE... as they've all mentioned above.

What kind of hard drive do you have in your USB case? I'm keen to at least try what you have!

Edited December 11, 2008 by RANDY

[DRD-00F]

I can pretty much guarentee you this is a power issue. The thumb drives that it was designed for are flash memory, they don't have any moving pieces and only need a small amount of power to power them. The portable HDDs that you are using require far more power then the headunit is designed to give out, and being that it is not a car PC, it will not have the function to up the amperage if it detects that something other then a thumb drive is plugged in.

Even if you do get an outside power source, the fact that it is powering it from the USB connector might mean that it will be recognisable on the laptop you're powering it with, and not the headunit.

Even still, I know the manual says 'up to 250Gbs' but I really don't think these have the ability or the know how to drive an external HDD.

But hey, prove me wrong... it's fun proving me wrong I'll be the first to eat my words

[G0DZLR]

could always invest in a solid state drive (SSD) which is basically a large capacity flash drive in the 2.5" laptop drive form factor. has the power savings of flash drives, also alot more suited to incar systems as there are no moving parts

only prob is theyre about double the price (or more) of conventional HDDs

[RANDY]

I can pretty much guarentee you this is a power issue. The thumb drives that it was designed for are flash memory, they don't have any moving pieces and only need a small amount of power to power them. The portable HDDs that you are using require far more power then the headunit is designed to give out, and being that it is not a car PC, it will not have the function to up the amperage if it detects that something other then a thumb drive is plugged in.

Even if you do get an outside power source, the fact that it is powering it from the USB connector might mean that it will be recognisable on the laptop you're powering it with, and not the headunit.

Even still, I know the manual says 'up to 250Gbs' but I really don't think these have the ability or the know how to drive an external HDD.

But hey, prove me wrong... it's fun proving me wrong I'll be the first to eat my words

The only flaw I can find is that the additional power connector on USB HDD's is purely for power, and carries no data. The drive doesn't detect on a PC through that port. If they both carried data, I suspect a computer would get highly confused about the same device being connected twice.

Using the cigarrette lighter and my laptop should rule out the power issue... the drive spins up and seems to be working just fine as soon as the power is connected.

Good guesses though!

[dori34]

possibly consider this?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Portable-2-5-HDD-SD...%3A1|240%3A1318

[RANDY]

I'm not considering buying anything new... especially when i'm not convinced that it is a power issue. While the drive linked above can have additional power plugged in, it won't guarantee that the problem is not the USB/IDE controller being incompatible with the head unit or some kind of filesystem issue.

I have read that 1.8" HDD's work in some brands of head unit, but again... i'm going to use what I have, or nothing at all. =-]

[trance]

To use an ext HDD with most headunits (that support USB ofc), there are two major requirements.

1. Power - If the deck is low-power USB than recommend what most others already have via ciggie lighter.

2. Format - FAT32. This is what the partition HAS to be. By default, anything larger than 80gb is set to NTFS from Windows 2000/XP and further, and in most cases, Windows will not let you choose FAT32 on these drives. But alas, not all is lost. There is a tool hidden away, fairly similar to the FDISK of Windows 9x and before, and its called DISKPART!

For the following information, I am not held responsible for any disk failure, data loss, veternary fee's etc, and would recommend that you seek Professional assistance if at any stage you are unsure on what you are doing. This tut will clean the drive, so make sure you have NO DATA on it. It will go bye byes.

Formatting as FAT32 in XP/Vista:

1. Start - Run -> DISKPART

2. In the DISKPART program, type LIST DISK

3. In the DISKPART program, type SELECT DISK X (Where 'X' is the disk number for your ext hdd)

4. In the DISKPART program, type CLEAN

5. In the DISKPART program, type CREATE PARTITION PRIMARY

6. In the DISKPART program, type FORMAT FS=FAT32 QUICK

7. In the DISKPART program, type ACTIVE

8. In the DISKPART program, type ASSIGN

9. Type EXIT and close the CMD Prompt.

Now, Windows being the funny thing that it is, wont always allow you to create a FAT32 format. In this case, you need to use a 3rd party hdd partition software like Acronis, PartitionMagic etc.

I must reiterate, please, if you are unsure, ask someone with the knowledge, the last thing I want is for you to go ahead and select the wrong hdd and clean the partition clean off of your system. A hint would be that plugged in devices are usually at the lower end of the list.

[RANDY]

Interesting... but this appears to be the command-line way of doing what we've already tried, doesn't it?

The interesting part is the active partition idea. By default, Windows doesn't make a formatted primary partition active. I don't think my USB keys are active partitions either, but they work in my headunit.

Oh well, it's a 5 minute thing to try... i'll report back!

[trance]

In a nutshell to 1, yes. However, the option of choosing filesystem in Windows GUI is some what limited, and will not show FAT16/32/eX always.

For example, to create a bootable Windows Pre-install USB Key, you cant format via Windows GUI and copy the files over, you must choose the FAT32 method via DISKPART, as GUI leaves you with bupcus. Another advantage of using DISKPART to clean the volume is that a format via Windows GUI only does steps 6 and on, unless you do a full format, which is used to zero all sectors on the drive itself, and takes a mileneum to complete (especially with 3.5" 1.5tb desktop drives available on the market).

[RANDY]

The GUI can do all those steps... I'm creating a 32Gb or less partition so that the GUI gives me the FAT32 option. (not bupcus)

Are you saying that the problem is that all these head units don't support a drive that isn't used in its entirety?

Are you also suggesting that the problem is because the headunit ignores the FAT and gets confused by old data that has been quick-formatted? I will certainly do a full format if this was the problem for you.

We're using 2.5" disks, not 3.5". Whether we format using CLI or GUI, it really shouldn't make a difference. (or take a millenium)

For interest's sake, what kind of headunit and USB HDD are you using? So far all the suggestions have been coming from people who haven't been successful or who don't even own the necessary equipment to be able to comment.

[Rekin]

update:

Friend plugged in portable harddrive to headunit and then plugged in the power usb (off the harddrive) into a laptop on the passenger seat.

He claims it did not work and once all removed the USB port on the headunit failed to detect any usb source.

Headunit sent to pioneer for warranty repair lol

I dont understand how he could have broken the usb input on the headunit by connecting the hardrive in this way...

[Rekin]

Update

After my friend broke the usb connection by connecting laptop as a secondary power source for the headunit, he took it to a repair shop to be covered under warranty.

The only thing my friend mentioned to them was that the USB connection was no longer working. He didnt mention how he broke it.

Picked up the headunit today and everything is working fine. The headunit came with a receipt from Pioneer.

The funny part was the comment on the receipt (attached below).

The Comment said:

"Replaced Main board.

Please be aware that the unit is not capable of powering a hard drive through the USB socket. Please refrain from using the unit with a hard drive as it causes severe damage to the main board. If the unit returns with the same fault, warranty will not apply"

Im suprised how Pioneer knew we tried to plug in an external hard-drive. Must be a common problem for them. Hopefully next time they will provide a warning in the user manual saying to not use a hdd haha

Conclusion;

Dont use hdd with headunit