Disappointing Results

[STATUS]

Not the issue at all. I completely see the sense in spending $700~ on injectors, however the tuner repeatedly tells me that this IS NOT the issue as the duty cycle on the injectors was only 80% when the pinging began to occur.

My issue sounds almost identical to this one

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Gurus-t219935.html

No resolution in the end though???

where are you located? i tune heaps of wolf's and would be happy to slap it on the dyno just to assure you one way or the other....... im in dandy vic. Bring me Nando's or a 6 pack of JB and we will call it even

[RS500]

I recently upgraded my turbo from a HKS GT2530 to HKS 2835 pro s with some disappointing results.

My mods include

HKS FMIC

HKS Pod + custom instake

Wolf v500 ECU

Turbo back 3" exhaust

Hi flo cat

Aftermarket intank fuel pump

Injectors and manifold are stock.

The 2530 was making 307rwhp. After removing 2530 and installing the 2835 and retune car is making 305rwhp @ 16psi!

The tuner states the problem is the engine and he suggests rebuild. He says thay had the car at a max 330rwhp at its absolute limit with the 2835. He tapered the hp back as it was an unsafe tune. The car has 101,000 (probably not realistic!) on the clock and has never missed a beat in the 12,000 kms I have driven it.

I am unsure of what to do. I am considering taking it to another tuner for a second opinion, before I start pulling engines apart and spening big $$!

Could anyone shed some light/advice on this?

PS. car had BP98 in it during tune and exhaust was tested to be fine (no restrictions or temp issues).

Was your tuner able to tell you specifically what in the engine internals would be causing this problem?

Also, it is a possibility that the lambda sensor being used by your tuner is old and not giving 'accurate' AFR readings.

I think it's worth seeing another reputable tuner just to get a 2nd opinion.

good luck.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors buy injectors

[SLY33]

Bring me Nando's or a 6 pack of JB and we will call it even

mmm Nandos...

skydragon whos your tuner/workshop?

[bnr#@]

I want nando's now....

[Sydneykid]

The old crappola about Wolfs and injectors, I thought that died with expired engines several years ago. To prove the internals are OK get a leak down test done, any decent mechanic can do that, you don't need to take it to a tuner. Takes less than an hour, costs less than $100 and proves that the internals are OK.

As others have pointed out, whether the engine is good or bad is irrelevant when it comes to how much power the standard injectors will support. At 305 rwhp (228rwkw) you are over what I would consider a safe limit for the standard injectors. The is obsolutely no doubt that if you want more power you need bigger injectors, hundreds of R33GTST owners will tell you exactly the same story.

Cheers

Gary

[SkyDragon]

where are you located? i tune heaps of wolf's and would be happy to slap it on the dyno just to assure you one way or the other....... im in dandy vic. Bring me Nando's or a 6 pack of JB and we will call it even

Im in WA, little far to go, however tempting! Cheers for the offer.

The manager was saying the car is acting like an NA car when timing is inserted. Compression is way to high and subsequently the car just wont handle anymore power without pinging.

By the sounds of everyone here the I will buy the injectors and retune with someone else and see what happens.

The person who tuned my car has a very high reputation here in WA with wolf ECU's. In fact I have heard he has assisted them with some of the development process over the years. Most consider him to be the top man here in WA. I will not name publicly on a forum.

Thanks for everyones feedback, I hope to get to the bottom of this. Funnily enough I contacted the guy whose post i linked earlier in this thread who had the same issue, he says he has STILL not gotten to the bottom of it and he has had 550cc injectors all along!!

[rb26s13]

if he's that highly considered there is no reason why you cant mention who it is

i personally believe you need injectors and a new tuner to get amore out of it.

Edited August 5, 2008 by rb26s13

[SLY33]

^^exactly. if hes one of the top names im sure there will be a good reason behind what hes saying. You sure you dont have an NA motor thrown in there with all the turbo bits on it!? given the unknown life of these cars it might not be that surprising!

[SkyDragon]

^^exactly. if hes one of the top names im sure there will be a good reason behind what hes saying. You sure you dont have an NA motor thrown in there with all the turbo bits on it!? given the unknown life of these cars it might not be that surprising!

Well thats exactly what I have been thinking. Problem is how would I find out? I have Nissan FAST however that is not as extensive as telling you this. Just not sure how I would know that??

Secondly, if it was, they would have had to do some considerable work to have it running a 2530 with 307rwhp?? Just doesn't mak sense?

[toneski]

mate dont be a fool trying to kill a tuners reputation, 16 psi is plenty of boost of a 9:1 compression engine and every psi is an extra 4 degress celcious of heat internally so if its 7 psi factory you have added 36 degress so any more and you can start melting the internals whitch means a rebuild anyways, remember real power isnt easy or cheap so spend up and enjoy . the standed injectors are usally fine untill about 400rwhp if any thing add a rising rate reg but your problem isnt fuel its spark timing its on max advanced to the point that your detionating sure you can retard it but then you lose some response down low and youll lose power but with a decompress rebuild you can add boost or possibly add timing so the revs will be a bit snapier, so i recon the tuner has done the right thing and made the maximum power on your current set up.

remember this is a forum full of kids with know idea of how an engine works or have any knowledge on tuning but you tuner dose so i would believe him over dudes typing on a computer believing there tuning gods cause they added a reply on your forum.

[simpletool]

OK now that you've got injectors that you need if you want more than 225rwkw:

My thoughts are you should:

Firstly - spark plug temp ratings? You sure you don't have the wrong spark plugs in it?

You should be running one step colder than stock, can someone confirm that is 7 in NGK or is is 6? (anyway, higher number = colder plug) you want the higher number.

Do a compression check - surely a NA motor has a higher value than the turbo.

I think turbo is 150 psi each cylinder. Check it when you check the spark plugs.

These 2 things above should take you about 20 mins to do.

If it is an NA motor running a decent sized turbo and tune and supporting mods I'm going to be a bit dissappointed if it only makes 225rwkw - but I have no experience on that topic.

lastly......I feel for ya.

Edited August 6, 2008 by simpletool

[simpletool]

mate dont be a fool trying to kill a tuners reputation, 16 psi is plenty of boost of a 9:1 compression engine and every psi is an extra 4 degress celcious of heat internally so if its 7 psi factory you have added 36 degress so any more and you can start melting the internals whitch means a rebuild anyways, remember real power isnt easy or cheap so spend up and enjoy . the standed injectors are usally fine untill about 400rwhp if any thing add a rising rate reg but your problem isnt fuel its spark timing its on max advanced to the point that your detionating sure you can retard it but then you lose some response down low and youll lose power but with a decompress rebuild you can add boost or possibly add timing so the revs will be a bit snapier, so i recon the tuner has done the right thing and made the maximum power on your current set up.

remember this is a forum full of kids with know idea of how an engine works or have any knowledge on tuning but you tuner dose so i would believe him over dudes typing on a computer believing there tuning gods cause they added a reply on your forum.

I can't see many kids posts previously - yours seems the exception. ie. nice spelling.

1. Where you got 4 degrees per extra psi, who knows. (considering he's changed turbos, AFR and ignition curves I don't think that 4 degrees/psi number is worth much)

2. 36 degrees extra heat internally over stock = stuff all, nowhere near melting pistons. (apart from the fact that is a crazy totally out of nowhere "hands in the air" put it out of a hat kinda figure - see above)

3. 16psi on 9:1 compression is not exactly crazy boost, and you should be making more than 225rwkw from a 2835 on that boost. (Assuming you made that out of a 2530 on the same dyno)

Your print out says 13.5psi though, and that is bang on what you would expect power wise......... your tuner says you can't add more boost though or timing. I feel for ya.

Edited August 6, 2008 by simpletool

[700HP-GTR33]

I want nando's now....

+1

My supplier owns a few around that area.

Had lunch last Sunday.Pigged out, it was all free.

Then he got them to cook two chickens for me, take away

Oh sorry, off the topic.

SkyDragon....you may have to spend some money and get an alternative reason why you have low power results.

Higher power engine output can only be safely created by two variables.

Air and Fuel ratios...ie combustion.

Forced induction(larger turbo's) increases the air but not the fuel.

Depending how clever the tuner is..he or she may decide that injectors can deliver the fuel for the performance you are after.

So most here have stated some facts and referred to previous topics of discussion.Some have even offered their help.

There is no reason why you should pursue this argument about..my tuner..etc..etc

If you were sick and the fix was to operate...would you not want to get a different opinion?

Good luck with the fix.

[SLY33]

remember this is a forum full of kids with know idea of how an engine works or have any knowledge on tuning but you tuner dose so i would believe him over dudes typing on a computer believing there tuning gods cause they added a reply on your forum.

so you dont agree with what others have said about injectors, just call everyone kids. sure your not the kid? 300rwkw or thereabouts on standard injectors, i know its "been done" but is it the norm? i dont think so buddy.

im not a tuner but i have been through the exact process he is going through with a stock motor and same turbo- so i dont have to be a tuner to know what his setup is capable of, and also to know that saying its due to a worn out engine sounds iffy.

are you a tuning god?

Edited August 6, 2008 by SLY33

[The Mafia]

lol, I'm a tuner and I'm just a kid typing at a computer.

400rwhp from factory injectors? What a joke.

I'm running 420rwhp, and my 555cc injectors are at 85% duty cycle. Love to see what factory injectors would be at. 150%? more?

Edited August 6, 2008 by The Mafia

[-Dukes-]

I think Toneski here is our mystery tuner,

mate dont be a fool trying to kill a tuners reputation,

remember this is a forum full of kids with know idea of how an engine works or have any knowledge on tuning but you tuner dose so i would believe him over dudes typing on a computer believing there tuning gods cause they added a reply on your forum.

[Abo Bob]

so your @ 80%. Means your pretty much on the limit.

You do NOT push injectors to 100%.

You take them to about 85-90% at the most. Running something at its absolute maximum leaves no room for anything.

Its probably a case of your making 200rwkw (260rwhp), and they are 80% at that point which sounds much more reasonable.

Either way, they WILL be at 100%, BEFORE you reach the limit of a 2835. Its as simple as that

Meh, my 480cc injectors hit 100% all the time. Track, strip, drift, street. Couple of years now I reckon.

Did you know that when the injectors go from 99% to 100% they actually richen up quite a bit more than that 1% would indicate?

[R31Nismoid]

Im not a gamblor Adam

I like to know im well within the limits

[TTT]

hang on hang on..

The Mafia is a Tuner?