crossovers?

[streamer]

guys man...

hmm...im sure uve seen this before and ergh

im gonna haf to repeat it anyways...

im running an alpine deck 35wx4 and im running JBL 3 way spkrs and pioneer 2 ways in the back...

sounds great now...but i wanna put it the crossovers to get a more defined sound...

correct me if im wrong, only a component speaker set kinda thing which means the midrange thing and tweeter can provide this kinda sound right?

then where does the 3 ways and 2 ways come in?

how good are they and why do ppl even buy em if the component speakers are better?

maybe i can wire the deck straight to the JBL's infront like im doin now and then frm there also one more out to the crossover and then to the tweeters?

suggestions?

greatly appreciated

thanks alot guys

ps: how much does it normally cost to install an amp?

rough prices for installing it under the frnt passenger seat(possibly cheapest option if im not mistaken??)

in the battery compartment and how long will it take?/

thanks a bunch guys

[oofoofoo]

I am just looking into the whole audio thing so probably not the best source of info but what i can gather - components or splits (ie woofer separate to tweeters) are good for getting better imaging and staging, but are more complex to install (as you will need to cut a hole somewhere for the tweeter, whereas you can probably fit the woofer where the original coax speaker was). I think ppl basically buy coax 2/3 way speakers for ease of install, just slot them in basically. This is getting into a really grey area for me but i think - coax 2/3 way speakers like you have, have built in crossovers/freq filters so dont think you can introduce your own to take more control yourself. As for placement of the amp - i think putting it as close as possible to the battery is best, that way you will need to least amount of expensive power cable - also i read somewhere that you want to keep your amps away from your head unit, under the passenger seat is almost getting too close. But putting amp in back, means you just run the RCA's to the back, and run the much cheaper speaker cables back to the speakers in the front and possibly avoid interference problems that may occur as a result of having fatass power cables running from your boot to the amp in front. I was myself going to put coax speakers in front and rear and no sub, but since i have started investigating things i am going with components in the front and 12" sub in back. Planning on using 2 amps, one bridged for sub and the other 2 channel to run components, both of which i plan to mount on the wall between boot and battery section. But this is all my plans, things could quite easily change... Question for those more knowledgeable - whats the consensus on sub direction? ie forward, backward, straight up??

[BOoStEr]

Coaxial speakers usually have simple hi-pass filters (half a crossover) built into them. Good quality splits usually have more complex filters, hi pass to tweeters, low-pass to mids ( proper crossover). People often choose coaxials because they are generally cheaper to buy than splits. They can drop straight in as a replacement for the factory speakers and because their simple filter only uses a little bit of power they can be run well off a deck.

Generally the more complex crossovers that are used with good splits use more power and need an seperate amp for best results.

[Nav2k]

u can buy crossovers from like jaycar for example which will filter out unwanted sound from one speaker and send it to another speaker

u'll probably want to buy a tweeter aswell for the higher frequencies.

The 3way speakers would have a smaller speaker in them to play these frequencies.

amp wiring depends on the thickness of ur cables u want, depending on ur amp's current draw.

Im guessing u'd want to go with 4Ga or 8 Ga. 8Ga wiring will end up costing u about $40 or so, 4Ga is $80 if u get the stuff cheap. (jaycar etc.)

get simple RCA's from computer market or anything, those fancy RCA's dont really make that much diff.

Installing an amp is fairly straight forward, its just u have to get a nice ground point on ur car, (sand back a bit of metal on the body and thats ur ground) and going from ur engine thru a firewall inside ur cabin.

if u want more help i'll gladly go thru it for u,

getting a professional to do it will cost about $70 ontop of the wires.

and trust me, JB hifi and strathfield and autobarn do not do good jobs... best to do it urself.

My sugestion to u: sell ur JBL's and get a nice pair of splits for the price u get , and amp them

leave the 2 ways in the back, run them off the deck.

some of the best car audio is from cars with no rear speakers (but have a sub..)

[hippy]

thats a good suggestion and i definitely agree .. sell what u got .. but a nice set of splits .. which will set u back around 300 .. but boy they will sound way way better if u've setup everything right ..

[oofoofoo]

Power cables won't cost anywhere near that! (assuming you mount the amp in the boot) You only need about 2 m total of power cable: Thickest bit (i'm getting 2G) between battery and fuse, 8G between fuse and amp, and then same again for ground for amp. From Car Toys (in SA), DLS power cables for this would come to a total of little of $40. Just checked jaycar website - 4G wire OFC wire is $6.50 /m and 8G is $2.75 /m. The expensive bit from cabling comes from having the run speaker cables from amp back to speakers in the front - nice cable costs $9/m (dls stuff), and you need about 10 m. Then there are RCA's too. I am about to buy my audio stuff, and i think the retail price includes about $250 worth of wires/fuse stuff.

[BOoStEr]

Originally posted by streamer.

maybe i can wire the deck straight to the JBL's infront like im doin now and then frm there also one more out to the crossover and then to the tweeters.

If you run the JBLs from the deck and wire a second pair of 4ohm tweeters through a passive crossover to the same channels the deck will see a 2ohm load at tweeter frequencies. The deck may or maynot cope with this but it is not what the manufacturer designed it for. Chances are you wouldn't get a balanced sound because there is no easy way to match the output of the tweeters to the other speakers.

Not worth the risk. Leave it as it is or buy an amp before you upgrade to splits.

BTW You will never hear the difference between $2/M and $9/M speaker cable so spend the extra $$$ on better speakers.

Use twisted pair RCAs. I'd give the cheap home stuff a miss.

As for power cable, only the gauge matters and if the run is short you should only need 8g or 4g at the most.

If the amp fits under the seat there is no good reason not to put it there but if you drive an R33 the boot might be better.

[JR]

Depending on the size of the amp you are running. 8 guage wire is only sufficent up to around 300 wrms maximum. If you are getting into stereo gear, things like wiring it is a good idea to go to 4 guage to start with, becuase if you are anything like most stereo nuts, u will upgrade soon enough, and you will only have to replace it again, meaning double work for yourself. Up grade the return earth from the battery to the chassie tot he same size as your power wire as well. As for cross overs, there is usually no point adding crossovers to a system that was not designed for it, flog off your speakers for a price, and get a good set of splits, you will never regret doing this. My current splits are the alpine formula one status, they have one best loud speaker 3 years running. the crossovers have 2 imputs each from the amp, making them fully active. I am actaully running 2 4 channels just for my speakers in my car, just to get them all spot on. Happy stereoing, i hope this helps

[oofoofoo]

i am already speading reasonably serious $$ on DLS speakers, so the relatively small amount extra for top quality wires is worth it. you can only keep adding $$ for so long till you realise you are spending far too much on something what will sound good, but make your car slower.

[predator]

get simple RCA's from computer market or anything, those fancy RCA's dont really make that much diff.

Yes and no.. the really expensive stuff I think can be a bit of a waste, and i'm still unconvinced about the merits of gold-plated terminals, however the guage *is* important. I've found that well shielded and thicker RCA cables are much less prone to interference from external sources, and is well worth it. Even the car body can pick up unintentional noise and this can be heard in the final signal as the noise is amplified if its in the signal before it reaches the amp . The thick stuff can be a bit of a bitch to run through the carpet and things, but I'd rather that than have interference.

With splits, basically there is better separation of frequencies (e.g. clearer sound) and it basically just comes down to price. Nice pair of splits really is worth the extra $, especially for your fronts. My advice is just to run the most expensive splits you can afford in the front, get a nice 2 channel amp to sit under your seat to power them. That might be enough to keep you happy for a bit while you get the $ to fully work up the rear. For the rear, buy a good sub or two, nice powerful 4 channel amp or so in the back (you'll need it for the subs), and maybe $200 for some reasonable 2 coaxials for rear-fill. Having just the "do it all" amp in the boot can be a bit of a pain in the ass as you have to run all RCAs to the rear, then speaker wire all the way to the front again for your splits.

I've found facing my sub towards the front works best for me in my R33.. but it can depend on the car and many things.

[Nav2k]

the better RCA's r usuually just for show, they are of better quality yes, but its generally thought to be overkill.

its like using 8GA speaker wires instead of 16GA or whatever..

And it will cost u about $80 if u get everything ur supposed to

4GA x 5m = $6 x 5 = 30 + 1m for ground = 35

inline fuse holder = $10

Distro block = $10

RCAs = $10

Splitters = $5

Eye terminals for battery amps etc all up will be about $7

speaker wire = $3

dont kid urself, these r all jaycar products and it will cost about $80 for 8GA install.

I did 2 x 4GA cabling cos i couldnt get 2GA dist blocks and it costed $90 all up (cos i had a lot of things already)

dont put the amp under the seat, its an alright spot but im sure u'd want to adjust the gains / tune it every now and then for ur liking .