Dry Sumps

[N1GTR]

Hey guys

I know a few people in here have dry sumps in their cars, so i have a couple of questions;

1. How large is acceptable for the reservoir? in litres (the one about to be fitted is 12L)

2. How do you do a proper oil change with such long oil lines - does each line have to come off the pumps etc? or do you put T valves in the lines and let gravity do its thing

3. Where in the whole setup to fit the oil cooler in;

a) between sump and scavenger pump This is what im leaning towards as the setup allows me to do it and means the core can go in the passenger side gap where the stock airbox resonator thingy normally goes

b) between scavenger pump and reservoir

c) between reservoir and return pump

d) between return pump and motor

e) dont bother

The motor is being rebuilt currently, and while its in bits now is a good time to finish this part off

All help is greatly appreciated

[giant]

hi steve

our dry sump resevoir is only 7 litres , so your should be fine mate.

for oil changes we normally just normally let gravity do it's thing, but you can remove a line or two if you think oil is sitting in them, you wont have to worry

to much anymore after the dry sump mate, no more metal in the oil no more issures! we just had a look at our bottom end bearings after a year of racing and they are like brand new, we left them in there!!

as far oil cooler goes i will have to come back to you, this is important and very important to control oil temp properly, make sure you oil doesnt see more than about 110 . ours doesnt see anymore than 90 degree's.

cheers russ

[Marlin]

Russ. Get off the computer and get to work on that 35 mate

[dazmo]

Hey mate I have a 3 gallon (12lt) tank in my car and also in anothetr GTR that i have built with a dry sump and it will not be a problem . I went with this size as the larger oil volume will help to keep the oil temps down as well. As far as oil changes I just let gravity do the best job it can as you will never get all the oil out of the lines alternativly you can take the pump belt of the crank get yourself an extra drive pully (price is around $120) disconnect the scavenge return line and use a power drill to turn the pump over untill you have removed all the oil but imho that is not necessary. As giant stated once you have gone to a dry sump you wont have any dramas with spun bearings so the amount of used oil in the lines wont be a problem especially when you consider that you are adding at least 10 - 12lt of fresh oil each time.

As for the oil cooler you should definatly run it on the pressure (delivery) side of the pump as you always want the coolest oil going into the engine as this is far better for bearing life. I run my set up pressure from the pump to oil filter then to oil cooler then to the engine if you do it this way you will spot on and should not have a problem mate.

[r33_racer]

+1 for what russ and darren have said!

I do believe the peterson guide says you can run an oil cooler on both the pressure side to the block and from the pump to the tank...so oil is being cooled before it goes to the engine and then before it gets to the tank. Having the one before the tank helps keep the back part of the system cooler...doesnt really matter i guess, as said the critical part is keeping oil before it gets used cool.

[Roy]

Steve, whilst i amire the lengths you are going to with your car....and your enthusiasm even after the recent hiccup. Cars are far more fun when you are driving them, not sitting in the garage eating money. Just fix the old girl up and get back out there

[BezerkR32]

interesting to note that oil has to reach operating temperature also. i have seen 240 volt heating elements in dry sump tanks to warm the oil up. cold oil can also cause issues.

[r33_racer]

haha....in what part of oz would that be a problem? Then again im in qld...so we dont really know what cold is

[N1GTR]

hi steve

our dry sump resevoir is only 7 litres , so your should be fine mate.

for oil changes we normally just normally let gravity do it's thing, but you can remove a line or two if you think oil is sitting in them, you wont have to worry

to much anymore after the dry sump mate, no more metal in the oil no more issures! we just had a look at our bottom end bearings after a year of racing and they are like brand new, we left them in there!!

as far oil cooler goes i will have to come back to you, this is important and very important to control oil temp properly, make sure you oil doesnt see more than about 110 . ours doesnt see anymore than 90 degree's.

cheers russ

Cheers mate, is yours thermostat controlled at all? Ive been going over this whole thing in my head a million times so i get it right this time, i figured a way to stop the oil getting too cold would be to add a cooler core with a thermostat already built into the unit

Ill be happy when that little voice in the back of my head saying "oil surge, bearings, oil surge, bearings" over and over goes away for good

Hey mate I have a 3 gallon (12lt) tank in my car and also in anothetr GTR that i have built with a dry sump and it will not be a problem . I went with this size as the larger oil volume will help to keep the oil temps down as well. As far as oil changes I just let gravity do the best job it can as you will never get all the oil out of the lines alternativly you can take the pump belt of the crank get yourself an extra drive pully (price is around $120) disconnect the scavenge return line and use a power drill to turn the pump over untill you have removed all the oil but imho that is not necessary. As giant stated once you have gone to a dry sump you wont have any dramas with spun bearings so the amount of used oil in the lines wont be a problem especially when you consider that you are adding at least 10 - 12lt of fresh oil each time.

As for the oil cooler you should definatly run it on the pressure (delivery) side of the pump as you always want the coolest oil going into the engine as this is far better for bearing life. I run my set up pressure from the pump to oil filter then to oil cooler then to the engine if you do it this way you will spot on and should not have a problem mate.

Way too much effort to change oil, i think ill stick with the T piece and gravity

Thanks heaps for the info

+1 for what russ and darren have said!

I do believe the peterson guide says you can run an oil cooler on both the pressure side to the block and from the pump to the tank...so oil is being cooled before it goes to the engine and then before it gets to the tank. Having the one before the tank helps keep the back part of the system cooler...doesnt really matter i guess, as said the critical part is keeping oil before it gets used cool.

Cheers!

Steve, whilst i amire the lengths you are going to with your car....and your enthusiasm even after the recent hiccup. Cars are far more fun when you are driving them, not sitting in the garage eating money. Just fix the old girl up and get back out there

Mine seems to prefer sitting and eating money. Its got one problem i dont think ill ever be ble to fix on it....its stuck in the 90's and doesnt know the current price of fuel

With that said - thanks for the kind words, come to Shepp next month - im bringing it along. Ext gate included

[BezerkR32]

Anywhere south, Wakefield Park, Canberra etc. -4 in Canberra this week. We had oil temp issue at Willowbank at the winternationals in he drag car this year.

haha....in what part of oz would that be a problem? Then again im in qld...so we dont really know what cold is

[Angus Smart]

you can buy oil tanks that have a heater inside them. or it might be wrapped around the tank in the boot.

you went rb30 right steve?

[N1GTR]

Yep, 3L

I dont think it will need any heaters in the tank or any of that stuff. I want to know the heat is coming out of the oil, not going in

[9krpm]

Has anyone been able to dry sump a R32 with aircond yet?

[Risking]

If your doing it with a proper dry sump pump, put the cooler on the pressure side between the engine and the pump outlet.

Heaters in the tank are actually a very good idea. Oil works best at its optimum temperature. With 12L in the tank I dont think you'll get it all up to temp over the course of a few laps ( super sprint event)

I know I wont be so the peterson tank I have will utilse the internal heater and tank warmer before the car even gets onto the track I know the oil will be at temp and the oil cooler can do the rest once the heaters are turned off.

Make sure you've done the right reasearch regarding scavenger locations, pre-filter locations etc. Ive found its all pretty critical and if whoever is putting it into place has to ask about oil cooler locations my best guess would be they shouldnt really be playing with your dry sump investment.

[dazmo]

As far as getting the oil up to temp both my car and Giant (Russ's) car have custom raditors with the oil cooler built into the end tank so the oil gets up to operating temp within a few minuites of just idling so is definatly not a problem and saves a lot of space as well not having to fit and external oil cooler. Dan (9krpm) the hi octane dry sump kit that they sell stil retains the air con and mounts the pump under the altinator so that wont be a problem if you want to keep your a/c.

[N1GTR]

If your doing it with a proper dry sump pump, put the cooler on the pressure side between the engine and the pump outlet.

Heaters in the tank are actually a very good idea. Oil works best at its optimum temperature. With 12L in the tank I dont think you'll get it all up to temp over the course of a few laps ( super sprint event)

I know I wont be so the peterson tank I have will utilse the internal heater and tank warmer before the car even gets onto the track I know the oil will be at temp and the oil cooler can do the rest once the heaters are turned off.

Make sure you've done the right reasearch regarding scavenger locations, pre-filter locations etc. Ive found its all pretty critical and if whoever is putting it into place has to ask about oil cooler locations my best guess would be they shouldnt really be playing with your dry sump investment.

Yes its a proper pump, i was thinking that it may not get up to temp aswel in a quick sprint, worst case is a change of tanks to a smaller one if it doesnt. It might mean a bit of stuffing around but thats ok. Everythings been done right, just no cooler core so i thought id ask the collective wisdom on SAU, the person doing the dry sump has said almost everything mentioned in this thread which is very reassuring

Thanks for the advice

As far as getting the oil up to temp both my car and Giant (Russ's) car have custom raditors with the oil cooler built into the end tank so the oil gets up to operating temp within a few minuites of just idling so is definatly not a problem and saves a lot of space as well not having to fit and external oil cooler. Dan (9krpm) the hi octane dry sump kit that they sell stil retains the air con and mounts the pump under the altinator so that wont be a problem if you want to keep your a/c.

That sounds interesting, anymore info on the radiator? I was getting prepared for quite long warmup times but if there's an alternative (that doesnt involve a heater in the tank) im pretty interested

[Risking]

just use a $25 in tank heater.

Im planning to turn on the heaters whilst sitting then turn it off once on the circuit. Saves ridiculous time swapping tanks in and out. and will work just fine.

another way to do the cooler is just run it off the factory filter location. Atleast this way you can buy a Jap cooler kit thats bound to fit 100% and less time involved mucking around with fittings.

What type of pump are you planning to use?

Like someone mentioned Peterson say you can plumb a cooler into the scavneger lines but by the time you put filters on them the plumbing becomes far to complicated.

[N1GTR]

Sorry i meant if the 12L takes ages to warm up i'll sell it and get a 7L, not going to be swapping back and forth

Good suggestion on the stock filter location, there's a heap of kits like the HKS one that are pretty well priced

Pump is a peterson pump

What heater will you use?

[Risking]

fair enough a once off swap is easy.

Im using a peterson tank and a heater that came with the tank. Its also got two blankets around the tank that are also heated. I figure turning on the heaters whilst sitting at the dumby grid (20 mins max at state rounds) should get the oil to a reasonable temp if not all the way there. You can but the heaters from Motor sport connections, for bugger all.

Im using a gauze inside the sump and a removable lower section for easy cleaning. Also have earls scavneger filters before the tank.

The jap cooler kits are easy and cheap. I looked at making my own lines from the pump to the cooler but it works out more economical to buy an off the shelf kit with brakets etc esspecially when time is a constraint.

[N1GTR]

Have you made up a switch on the dash for the blankets to turn them off?