Unscheduled Event, I Pulled The Motor Out!

[Tomek]

Been searching for a few hours.. and haven't got the answer im looking for..

I've set aside this month to fit my turbos, dumps, ebc, injectors, fuel pump.. yada yada.

When pulling of the flare nuts on the high pressure lines running along side head (circulating to turbo core) I ran into dramas. Even my pipe spanner was rounding the fu%%ers, so we decided on pulling the pirate out of the ship in order to make the arming of him easier (pull motor out to make job easier)

It was an un-scheduled action, i had no idea I was going to pull the motor out. Now.. my question is..

Il be running Garrett 2860-7 turbos on the car.. I have all the supporting mods to bolt to it.. but the motor is a 15 year old virgin (93 32 GTR).

I have decided that it would be worth-while to at-least fix up the 26's factory flaws..

Im not too keen on opening her up to full extent just yet, need to talk to mechanic.. I have talked to him but only briefly and he said it would be cheap as chips to send him the short motor and let him do a simple stock rebuild..

Atm im thinking...

-N1 oil pump with crank collar (someone shed me some light, does the 93 32 come with an R33 crank which won't need the collar?)

-Tomei sump baffle kit

-Oil return from the rear cylinder head to the sump

-Tomei restrictor in the feed

-Drill out the oil return galleries in the head - sydkid

-Machine around the oil return galleries to facilitate access for the oil - sydkid

Im going to run these ideas through my mechanic and let him perform any sneaky tricks.. I want the motor to be reliable as it's used for a bit of track work and street duties.. Circa power of 420-450hp at the wheels.

As far as head gasket, I have been schooled many a times that 18-19psi is fine for her.. Will have a look at pistons and check out how there going living in a rock .. i mean block for 15 years.. check bearings or just replace..

The problem is I don't want to blow my budget out of the water! Like I said I didn't know that I was going to be pulling the motor out and tomorrow when it's out id be stupid not to do some work to it. But where do I draw the fine line between budget and debt?

I would really appreciate some informative replies from people in the know, 10 minutes of your time will save me a c$ap load in frustration or worst case a un-necessary failure .. don't want to be bombarded with "use the search" please or any bs advice..

Cheers Tomek

[The Dan]

To start with, get rid of the idea of an N1 oil pump. I've seen too many of these fail now to consider them a reliable investment. Use a JUN (which I have also seen break but only on drag cars) or a Tomei pump - which I have never seen one break.

- While the sump is off for the oil pump changeover, either get yourself the TRUST sump extension kit or at least the Tomei oil baffle plate. This will keep oil around the pickup area and help prevent oil starvation.

- Oil restrictors in the head as SK suggests.

- Extra oil return/s from the back of the cylinder head

Strandard head gasket is good for up to 24 psi IMO but you really don't know what condition it is already in and it's a rather pain in the arse job to change it later. I would recommend staying with the standard head gasket but I would definately recommend replacing it with a new item.

If you are going to replace the head gasket, make sure you get the cylinder head off to an engineer for a surface grind and it is a good idea to change the valve stem seals while it's there. Get it pressure tested etc while it's there also. If you aren't changing the gasket then don't worry about it.

Head studs are optional but a good investment - usually only if you want to run more than 20-22psi

Main studs are also good investment but considering your low hp goal I would say they are not needed either.

Go ahead and replace all of the copper washers everywhere. You will find that most of them are 14mm and 16mm copper washer (standard garden variety).

With the collar comment, all RB cranks require modification. Some have a longer snout but still not long enough. The only problem is fitting a collar to a crank that is still in the engine is not a good idea so you'll have to wait til the rebuild for that one anyway.

It would be a god idea to replace your exhaust manifold gaskets while the engine is out also.

Ok that's all that comes to mind while I'm eating breakfast, I'll let you know if I think of anything else in the meantime

[R31Nismoid]

Nothing wrong with N1 pumps, its all about how you treat them and a few other things.

Plenty of people using them, plenty are fine. Those tho break them are doing a number of things wrong.

Especially for 450hp, a $1100 pump is a waste of money. All pumps can be broken, Racepace have seen all of them die as posted before.

Crank collar - no point doing that without putting a set of pistons through it and so on, new bearings and basically rebuild it.

Replace the hoses that are hard to get too while the motor is out, and the clamps (to decent ones that are easy to get off).

This will stop you from a pain in the a$$ situation later on

Other than that, as above. Just change manifold gaskets, copper washers and that's about it really.

And ye, the oil mods etc, but ideally no point on a stock motor. Just overfill by about 1ltr before a track day

[The Dan]

Nothing wrong with N1 pumps, its all about how you treat them and a few other things.

Plenty of people using them, plenty are fine. Those tho break them are doing a number of things wrong.

Especially for 450hp, a $1100 pump is a waste of money. All pumps can be broken, Racepace have seen all of them die as posted before.

I have seen the drive gears tested under a press and the N1 gears shatter while the JUN and Tomei drive gears don't give way until 3 times the force is applied. I have a video somewhere, I'll try to dig it up.

I have used the N1 pump many times and never had one fail before. Having said that, though, I also believe that oil and fuel are the two most important things in your engine. Lack of either one and it's bye bye.

It's more of a waste to fit oil restrictors and extra head returns to the sump. Like you said, 1 extra L in the sump before tracking it prevents problems like that. The return ports at the back and front of the engine flow more than the oil feed ports anyway so the need for extra returns on something that may see the track once or twice a year is silly.

I'm still yet to see a Tomei pump fail. If racepace have evidence of one failing, I would be very interested to see it.

[R31Nismoid]

I havent seen one N1 pump die on a Vic car, so maybe its the air again...

If you dont sit on the limiter and tune it well, you shouldn't bust them.

Its more the driver thats the danger than the pump itself. There was one guy i remember who posted pics etc of his N1 pump, but ended up admitting he lived on the limiter which is kinda a given for a N1.

yer, oil mods are a bit pointless when your not building it, the stock motor will fail eventually anyhow so you just do that when the time comes.

They said in one of the big oil pump threads they've seen all broken, be there pics around remains to be seen... but not like there is anything to gain by says that so id be happy to accept that it can happen.

They would just take much more of a beating before it occurred more than anything else i think its fair to say

[The Dan]

I havent seen one N1 pump die on a Vic car, so maybe its the air again...

If you dont sit on the limiter and tune it well, you shouldn't bust them.

Its more the driver thats the danger than the pump itself. There was one guy i remember who posted pics etc of his N1 pump, but ended up admitting he lived on the limiter which is kinda a given for a N1.

yer, oil mods are a bit pointless when your not building it, the stock motor will fail eventually anyhow so you just do that when the time comes.

They said in one of the big oil pump threads they've seen all broken, be there pics around remains to be seen... but not like there is anything to gain by says that so id be happy to accept that it can happen.

They would just take much more of a beating before it occurred more than anything else i think its fair to say

Yeah, I can agree with that.

But whatever this guy does, I think we can both agree that it is important he chooses his mods wisely based on what he will be using the car for. I always ask customers what they will be using the car for, then build it for twice as much punishment. They will always thrash it twice as much as they let on

and then always swear that they never mis-treated it.

Harmonic balancer should be another important item on his list.

One other thing I forogt:

While the sump is off, take a look at where the front driveshaft runs through the centre. Underneath that are the very small 1mm holes where the oil drains back into the pickup area. Drill these out to 6mm on each one. This allows the oil to get back faster. If you are installing the Tomei oil baffle plate, then they have instructions on how to do this with the kit.

One thing I must stress also, any drilling or filing or welding wil leave swarf in the sump pan. MAKE SURE YOU CLEAN IT ALL OUT THOROUGHLY BEFORE YOU PUT IT BACK ON!!, Then when you've done that, clean it again. Don't get water in the front diff...best way to prevent this is to stuff a rag into the holes.

Always use 3bond to put the sump or oil pump on. This is what Nissan use....use it! Other forms of silicon perish over time when in contact with oils. 3Bond is urethane based so oil does not have the same effect.

[Tomek]

Thanks for the in-put guys..

Will look into each point..

Talked to my mechanic today and he told me I should go 20 thou over (86.5), prepped rods with bolts, stick with my crank and grab an N1 oil pump. General tidy up of the head and new valve guides...

Block is going to be prepared by "Advan" down in Sydney..

I've found that it's hard to find a set of Jap brand pistons that fit the 20 thou, other then tomei who else makes them?

[tacker]

CP pistons are a good option and eagle rods are not to bad either, the set i got measured up very nicely.

[Tomek]

Been quite a few slow and painful month$..

But here's an update

Block & head has come back from Advan, finally

Bare basics+

-Standard 05U block bored out 20thou over

-33 crank polished, linished & balanced

-Eagle rods

-HKS dove tail (think is the name) pistons

I've got an N1 oil pump here, not sure if I want to use it just yet ... thinking about going nitto or shelling out more for a Tomei... or shelling out even more for the group buy Red R/ Godzilla external pump. <.. Comments or advice

Leaning towards the external

No pics of the head, under wraps not allowed to un-wrap it

264 in, 272 ex

Tomek