Can The Cops Do This?

[Draen]

I got a infringement notice which says I supposedly didn't stop at a stop sign in crn of Campbell and Ramsgate Av in Bondi.

I didn't get pulled over that night or anything, and I don't recall this at all? What proof would they have to back this up?

Feel free to post of pm me your experiences.

[CARSICK]

Can you afford a day off in court?

And do you want to fight it on principle?

If both of the above are a YES, I'd definitely fight it on the basis that

i) it may not have been your car or number plates being documented accurately

ii) it was night-time, so how could they identify that it was you in the driver's seat

iii) they haven't yet given you the chance to say it was someone else

iv) you've contacted your local MP and the transport minister Eric Roozendaal about it (reply pending)

v) you were somewhere else?.

Cheers

M

[JPZ200]

Yeh,

They can even send you EPA letters in the mail. Happened to a mate twice.

First time, was a cop walking on the street in the cross, copper walked up to his car told him he was going to get a EPA letter in the mail.

2nd time, was he just found one in his mail one day for him to visit to test the car under suspicious conditions. Got pumped. Twice.

I did know they could do this. And what was said above is a good statement, cause to be honest if I got it in the mail, I would of thrown it out until I get the reminder.

[POLICE]

I'm quite sure the infringement notice should have some details about what evidence they have against you.

I just recently got one for allegedly "stopping on a pedestrian crossing" which noted that it was taken by a camera from Botany Bar Council.

Was gonna cost me $318 and 4 points, I didn't think they had a case with the camera since it was a 40 school zone.

The only reason I'd stop on a bloody pedestrian crossing would be if some stupid kids decided to cross the street a few metres ahead.

I took it to court and the infringement was changed to 'stopping on/or near a pedestrian crossing'.

Anywho pleaded not guilty and the Botany Bay Council dropped all the charges.

Waste of my bloody time yeah but at the end of the day:

$318 + 4 demerit points > my pay at work + how much I enjoy work

That's all folks

[Draen]

It doesnt sound like its worth going to court over it, as furious as I am!

Anyone know how many demerit points is disobeying a stop sign? Ill call Rta mond of noone knows the answer

[Sklyn]

ii) it was night-time, so how could they identify that it was you in the driver's seat

iii) they haven't yet given you the chance to say it was someone else

I don't think it matters if you were driving or not. As it is the registered owner who is responsible for letting someone else drive their car, and the actions they take while doing so.

If it is someone else driving your car and they are willing to accept the blame then you both need to send a letter explaining who was driving and that they will accept the penalty..

Any time I have been accused AFTER the fact they only ever gave me a warning..

[TheTunersGroup]

Yeh,

They can even send you EPA letters in the mail. Happened to a mate twice.

I got a fine in the mail that was as a result of report by a council ranger

I couldn't believe it.

I didn't have the time to fight it in court so I just paid it.

- Adam

[HuH]

I don't think it matters if you were driving or not. As it is the registered owner who is responsible for letting someone else drive their car, and the actions they take while doing so.

If it is someone else driving your car and they are willing to accept the blame then you both need to send a letter explaining who was driving and that they will accept the penalty..

Any time I have been accused AFTER the fact they only ever gave me a warning..

That's completely wrong. I think you're getting confused between traffic infringements and insurance claims from unnamed drivers. The registered owner can't possibly be responsible for someone speeding or running a stop sign in their car, just because it's their car.

The notice should be similar to the notice from a speed camera. The notices from speed cameras have a section stating that if you weren't behind the wheel you can send the form back with the details of the driver who was in control of the car and the notice is reissued to them. It doesn't matter whether that driver consents to that or not - they were doing the illegal thing, they get the fine. It's all on the back of the form, from memory. But that doesn't really apply to the OP, because he was driving.

[Geoff897]

Yeah i received a fine in the mail when i was helping my GF brother drop off the paper for his paper run.

I double parked in a quiet street and unloaded the papers from the boot to the foot path, was only stopped for 2 minutes. Costed me more then his paper round for a few months.

Didnt see anyone around no Police or Rangers.

[Sklyn]

That's completely wrong. I think you're getting confused between traffic infringements and insurance claims from unnamed drivers. The registered owner can't possibly be responsible for someone speeding or running a stop sign in their car, just because it's their car.

The notice should be similar to the notice from a speed camera. The notices from speed cameras have a section stating that if you weren't behind the wheel you can send the form back with the details of the driver who was in control of the car and the notice is reissued to them. It doesn't matter whether that driver consents to that or not - they were doing the illegal thing, they get the fine. It's all on the back of the form, from memory. But that doesn't really apply to the OP, because he was driving.

Iv'e never had to deal with an insurance claim like that, but I guess details could be mixed up somewhere along the line.

I say the registered owner is responsible as the rego plate is the form of identity when in a car. That Rego number IS you. (kinda) How can a police officer who sees your car run a stop sign possibly be expected to know if it is you driving or not? without actually stopping you. Not photo, just a rego plate..

If there is a photo which is clearly not you then fine, there is proof it was not you. But if there is no photo, just a police witness of the vehicle doing whatever infringment, How easy would it be to get off if I could just say it was joe bloggs over here..

[scathing]

For a matter of perspective, the next time you wonder about the traffic infringement you get either in person or in the mail have a read of this news article:

From 1995, the number of sexual assault clear-ups has more than halved, to 21 per cent of the more than 4000 attacks reported in 2007.

While they're not bringing rapists to justice, its heartening to know that the cops are fining people for the far more heinous crime of not stopping at a stop sign.

Cheers, guys.

Edited September 11, 2008 by scathing

[HuH]

Be a bit more constructive with your comment, mate. Highway Patrol officers don't go around trying to solve sexual assault crimes when they're not behind a radar gun - that's a totally separate facet of the Police force. If you're making a statement about the spread of Police resources, then say so. Blanket statements like that don't do anything for anyone.

Edited September 11, 2008 by HuH

[scathing]

If you're making a statement about the spread of Police resources, then say so. Blanket statements like that don't do anything for anyone.

I beg to differ.

Given the attitude that cops have towards the drivers of certain cars, and the special attention that they give to those cars regardless of if they're doing anything actually wrong, it would appear that the police feel that blanket statements and attitudes based on the visible minority covered by overhyped media coverage seem to be perfectly applicable.

Its the police force's job to catch criminals. If making blanket judgements based on tenuous evidence in tabloid media is good enough for people with the ability to restrict the freedoms of the populace, then surely its good enough for everyone else when determining their competence.

[HuH]

The main motivation behind my initial response to you was the knowledge of a Police presence here on SAU. Making comments like that outlining your blatent discontent with these law enforcers is probably not the best way to uphold the reputation of this club.

Having said that, there is some truth to what you're saying - specifically that a lot of HP officers do take special interest in Skylines and other imports - but being someone who drives a lot each week, I can understand why. I see so many idiots out there doing things that put people in danger, and if I was an officer myself I'm sure I'd probably have a similar approach.

Your post above certainly shows your penchant for wordiness, but it doesn't show much else. Your last paragraph says that the police place special focus on these imports because of what is printed in the papers? I hope you don't really think that. You think these officers need a tabloid rag to tell them that imports are the cars of choice for hoons? And the ones that they should take note of?

The whole situation is a catch twenty-two. Kids go out and buy these turbocharged cars that they're really not mature enough to be in control of. They spend thousands modifying them to be faster, look better, and to overall stand out from the crowd. This just accentuates their car even further when they choose to drive aggressively. I witness arrogant driving from a whole host of drivers out on the road, but it's much easier to blend in when you're driving a run of the mill car. Skylines already have a presence on the road, so when these owners choose to put some spirit into their driving - it's like putting a target on your back. Be responsible, and you'll be fine. That post you linked to doesn't show any qualities I disagree with. Buying a Skyline is buying into the hype. You will get pulled over from time to time, but if you're law abiding, there's no issue. If you're not keen on that happening, then sell the car - because you can't change it.

Edited September 11, 2008 by HuH

[4teecal]

I got a infringement notice which says I supposedly didn't stop at a stop sign in crn of Campbell and Ramsgate Av in Bondi.

I didn't get pulled over that night or anything, and I don't recall this at all? What proof would they have to back this up?

Feel free to post of pm me your experiences.

In NSW there are two differing types of traffic infringement. One is called owner onus and the other is called driver onus.

Owner onus offences are camera related/parking offences where police do not have to identify a driver as the infringement notice is sent directly to theowner and the responsibility lies on them to identify the driver.

Every other offence is a driver onus offence. Polie must establish several proofs of the offence and one is "driver. They must identify a driver either by speaking to them directly at the time, or after the offence. They may also identify a driver by causing th owner to identify the driver.

Stop sign offences are a driver onus offence and rely on the police being able to prove who the driver is. If they have not spoken to you or the owner then you may want to take this further.