Lakeside Sprints

[FineLine]

yeah, much like you with this comment. I've known Danny for years Vince, whoever you are... what's your problem anyway? Never met you or had any dealings with you. All I can remember is you taking exception to me posting to let other SAU people know about the Lakeside Sprint Series when it started, and you felt you had to rush to Paul's defence for some reason just because he also ran 1 day out there??? That ain't me making new friends, that's all you bud.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/La...97#entry3933297

Jebus harry climb down off your ego before ya get a nose bleed.

[hrd-hr30]

what are you on about Noel? I don't see anything "egotistical" in what you've quoted??? If what I wrote in response to Danny sounded egotistical, maybe you missed what he said?

Ps If your under the impression that you were going to beat me around there I'd get you credit card out as my old single cam engine did 60.8's on old Yokohama A008R tyre and not even the RS's! and Gerry got down to 58.29 sec with his 168RWHP YB Cosworth powered Escort and mine makes ALOT more than that and has had a lot more development and before you start going on about the track IT WAS ALWAYS THAT BUMPY and the patches on the corners they aere always there in some form so you can't blame that for you only doing high 2's

The most egotistical sounding thing I said was basically quoting his words back at him, and I'm not going to apologise for that.

well I did beat you out there, by about 11 or 12 seconds that day!!! So if you're under the impression you're going to beat me out there, you better sharpen up a bit mate!

and that was with credit card safely tucked away in my wallet. you can't buy ability eh Danny. and I don't give a rat's arse if that sounds egotistical

[G_T_R]

I know its difficult to judge the general emotion of a post online Harry, so thought that a few of these might help ( ). Now i'm thinking maybe a box of kleenex will do the trick!!

I dont recall "rushing to anyones defence". Harry, I was until recently unaware of your dissagreements with certain other members of this forums. That post for Lakeside was merely more info regarding to total track time between two different organisations, (both of which i do track days with).

Perhaps you should take a bit more notice of you own words "bud"... "nothing like some healthy paranoina".

[hrd-hr30]

even with a smiley face I don't see how these words "still making new friends I see" can be taken as anything other than having a dig at someone you don't know from a bar of soap?

its only 1 other member (not plural) that I have any sort of disagreement with and if you look back you'll see its pretty clear cut who's in the wrong over that.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Aw...hl=awd+shootout

[hrd-hr30]

anyway, back on topic.

Lakeside Sprints Championship Winners

http://www.queenslandraceway.com.au/

even with a mistake in the points from round 1 I managed to take out the Road 8 class.

Hopefuly I can use my track car there next year!

[Marlin]

Well done

How are the points worked out?

[hrd-hr30]

if the other SAS & WAS series are anything to go by they announce a winner for each class rather than an overall single winner of the series.

points are accumulated from all 4 rounds. doesn't look like they dropped the worst round or anything like that.

at each round points awarded for 1st place down in each class are: 20,17,15,12,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2, and 1 point for each of the rest of the competitors in the class.

[Marlin]

Ummm, ok? So I should feel glad coming 4th? I was there for the cheap days, 4th's a bonus! lol

Though, Tony's times are faster, he only went twice, same as me, he had the fastest times, but came 3rd?

Is there some kind of regularity index thrown in there, becasue I don't follow it.

[hrd-hr30]

All the days were the same cost, $99 prepaid.

no regularity in the mix, just total accumulated points from the four rounds.

Tony only did 2 rounds (thankfully!) and got 2 wins (20 points each) for a total of 40points (mind you he used Michelin Porsche Cup slicks in round 3 and they specifically said slicks were not permitted).

I did 3 rounds and the pointscore says I got 2 seconds (17 points each) and a third (15 points) for a total of 49points. I actually won the first round though - they messed up the results for that. Originally left Justin Wall who came second out of the points. When they fixed that up, they also changed Paul Zacka's 1:06.18 to Brad Zacka and 1:01.40!!! wtf? Luckily it doesn't affect the overall result for the series.

Justin Wall who got 2nd in Road 8 did 3 rounds as well and got a 3rd (15), a win for the round I missed (20), and a 5th (10) for a total of 45 points.

Edited November 17, 2008 by hrd-hr30

[Marlin]

Ahhh ok ok I got ya now Thanks for explaining it. I'm a little retarded and can take some time to pick these things up.

When I said I was there for the cheap days I meant the QR run days, ie, 99 bucks, as opposed to the Rennen 300 dollar days. If I could have made all four I definately would have been there, even if I couldn't give a toss about the points

They can't re-open it soon enough!

[hrd-hr30]

ah, I did one of those Rennen days before QR started running this series. Was stoked to find QR were only charging a hundred bucks! I have no idea why I missed one of the rounds though...

Not sure what's going on with Lakeside - At the moment its open on the 1st and 3rd Wednesday of every month for general practice. That's this week I took the Datto out there on the 5th but it started bucketing down as soon as I got there. All I want is one dry lap to see what it can do!!! I'm going to try again this Wednesday morning if the weather is half alright...

I suspect the court date has been put off again and they don't want to start the resurfacing works until that's settled. If that's the case I hope it drags on for a while longer to keep Lakeside open in its original state!

[Marlin]

Ok great! I'm gonna be there next month Assuming the car survives Morgan Park on the 30th

[danny m]

well I did beat you out there, by about 11 or 12 seconds that day!!! So if you're under the impression you're going to beat me out there, you better sharpen up a bit mate! And unlike you, I only got 1 clear lap after I passed the STi that was holding me up., hadn't driven the Datsun since the AHC in 2007, and had never driven it in the wet. So much for you not pottering around at Sprints eh?

high 2s? my standard Supra road car ran 1:01.3 last time on street tyres (not semi slicks) on the track as it is in 2008. Not realy worth comparing to what you (or whoever Gerry is) claim to have done over 7 years ago. We all saw what you were capable of the other week - 1:20-odd!

Your car was easily the loudest car there on the day, and was never going to be under the required db limit. It doesn't matter whether the noise is coming from the exhaust or the induction, there's a noise limit and your car was way in excess of it. And you ignored black flags lap after lap. They were hanging out way over the pit wall with a giant black flag... its you responsibility to look out for flags at the flag points. I managed to see all the flags just fine and I don't have any demisting or even working wipers in the Datsun!

My Supra only has a cat and a Jasma cannon on the back and it easily passes the noise tests out there. My Datsun only have a res and straight through muffler and again easily passes. So I call bullsh1t on the brand new road cars failing the noise tests at Lakeside.

don't it make ya proud?

http://www.queenslandraceway.com.au/lakesi...rral_111008.pdf

Harry you should wake up and smell the roses

Or come and play with the big boys (but them you wont be able to cheat)

I was told it was a drive by test exactly the same as used at Mt Cotton and mine is alway under the 95db limit but then again that is on a computorised monitoring system that gets regularly calibrated unlike the gear Lakeside is using and I have had a lengthy conversation with John over this event and what he is up against I very much doubt you will ever be doing any racing on Lakeside as they have to be under 70db or so at the nearest residence which is absolute bullshit as most lawnmowers are louder than that as I know my Honda has an 82db sticker on it!

As far as missing the black flags unlike yourself I actually did race at Lakeside for a number of years and the marshalls never hung the flags where that glorified brainstrust Mr Chappell did because no one could see them!!!! but then again he wouldn't have known that because he has as much experience as you do. the black flags were always positioned at the tower with the starter and on the exit of carousel!!!

When you are wheel spinning down the main straight in the rain with all your windows fogging up to actually see a black flag being held in an inappropriate place where they can't really be seen properly in the dry is asking a bit much but then again I don't have your superpowers of vision to have seen them as well as counting the tickets on myself which you have no problems obvisously in doing or then there is the genius that states that I was giving the flaggies the finger he must have super powers as well as I do remember waving at the flaggies while I was going sideways out of the carousell as it was that slow out there but then again they didn't see it because the windows were fogged up!

For the person that thought I was being juvenile out of the gate, well we'll see how that goes as the best place to find out the levels of grip on a race track in the wet is to have a go out of the gate at place where there is lots of room and little to hit which is especially the case at Lakeside. So next time it's wet at Lakeside I might come and have a watch to see which fence you land on.

All I can say guys is you should get out there as often as you can and turn laps as it's not going to last the way things are going unfortunately but then again you could actually get out there and do some actual circuit racing as you learn stuff all driving around on your own

Danny 0409 470055

PS Harry if you've taken offence of anything I've said feel free to ring me as web boards are usually not the correct place to go shooting mouths off

[hrd-hr30]

lol what could I possibly have taken offence to in that Danny?

here's a tip. maybe you should get your credit card out and buy a bottle of Fog-X so you can see the flags hanging out over the pit wall next to the tower not more than a metre or two from your car? just an idea. all of the first group saw the red flags there, and every other group saw the chequered flag in the same spot. of course we're just inexperienced duds who don't know anything because we haven't circuit raced with big boys like you.

what exactly does nailing it in first gear in the wet coming out of the pits tell you? didn't you expect it to spin them up? clearly not, if the fact you almost put it in the wall at walking pace was anything to judge by... I've always found the level of grip can vary from corner to corner in the wet, so nailing it in 1st gear on the straight coming out of the pits on cold tyres in the wet isn't going to give me any meaningful information about the track. but as you pointed out I don't have your awesome experience playing with big boys. still managed to beat you by 11 seconds though.

[danny m]

lol what could I possibly have taken offence to in that Danny?

here's a tip. maybe you should get your credit card out and buy a bottle of Fog-X so you can see the flags hanging out over the pit wall next to the tower not more than a metre or two from your car? just an idea. all of the first group saw the red flags there, and every other group saw the chequered flag in the same spot. of course we're just inexperienced duds who don't know anything because we haven't circuit raced with big boys like you.

what exactly does nailing it in first gear in the wet coming out of the pits tell you? didn't you expect it to spin them up? clearly not, if the fact you almost put it in the wall at walking pace was anything to judge by... I've always found the level of grip can vary from corner to corner in the wet, so nailing it in 1st gear on the straight coming out of the pits on cold tyres in the wet isn't going to give me any meaningful information about the track. but as you pointed out I don't have your awesome experience playing with big boys. still managed to beat you by 11 seconds though.

If you're not careful Harry you're going to go blind living up to the reputation everyones got of you

Danny

[hrd-hr30]

For the person that thought I was being juvenile out of the gate, well we'll see how that goes as the best place to find out the levels of grip on a race track in the wet is to have a go out of the gate at place where there is lots of room and little to hit which is especially the case at Lakeside. So next time it's wet at Lakeside I might come and have a watch to see which fence you land on.

which one was your favourite Danny?

[Marlin]

For the person that thought I was being juvenile out of the gate, well we'll see how that goes as the best place to find out the levels of grip on a race track in the wet is to have a go out of the gate at place where there is lots of room and little to hit which is especially the case at Lakeside. So next time it's wet at Lakeside I might come and have a watch to see which fence you land on.

Hi Danny, I'm Ben That's my old Skyline in my pic to the left there.

I made the comment about the out the gate antics, saw you tank slapping up the strait out of the pits. I fail to understand (I'm a humble newby of course) how that judges much at all really? If I recall correctly you were on R comp tyres? I run R comps too, and I normally feel my way around gingerly to get a feel for the grip level, whilst trying to get some heat into the tyre where it will actually make some grip. In my experience when stone cold they're like concrete regardless, but then, maybe yours are different to the ones I use.

My car has about 200RWHP, and I found that I had wheelspin absolutely anywhere I even looked like using full throttle. It was very slippery that day! I struggled also because my tyres are very very old, and were/are virtually bald, in fact they're blue from getting them too hot at the previous meet With that in mind, I cautiously felt my way around until I was confident to have half a crack on my fifth lap, and I believe that time was a 1:13.29.... and I didn't even hit anything! Who woulda thunk it hey!? 4th fastest for the day, not bad all things considered I reckon.

A bunch of my mates that enjoy coming out were loving your display of bravado around the circuit, certainly looked spectacular, oh and the sound! Sounds great mate. I had to show them though on the sheets that I was actually a fair bit faster than you though, by nearly exactly seven seconds.... again, stoked for a newby

While they were up laughing and having a ball watching you come around under Dunlop and into Hungry, I was down having a smoke behind the frantic flag marshall at the tower..... and I could have sworn that you saw his flag, because I could see the whites of your eyes..... but thats getting a little off topic, sorry.

Damn, this has turned into a bit of a novel, I better get back to work, catchya later mate.

[260DET]

The thing about Lakeside is that its everyone's responsibility to watch the noise thing, all that has been made perfectly clear. Noise is monitored and the limit strictly enforced, as it should be for all who want to see Lakeaside continue to be open.

If anyone is too stupid or selfish to think they are the exception then stuff them, they need to grow up and take on personal responsibility for their actions.

[danny m]

Harry thats called going from 9th on the grid to 4th by the first corner only to get tagged from behind from a Phil Laird RX7 who couldn't see the end of his bonnet turning me around in the carousel only to be hit by a Gemini in 2nd last as he saw me and jumped on the brakes and when it wouldn't stop he was pulling up at the wheel to push harder, funny thing though the guys in front of him in a Falcon sprint with 4wheel drum brakes had no problems

Yes I was on R's but as you will remember it started to fine up a little for the first groups (which funny enough Harry was in) so I decided to leave the Yokohama A048R's on which are not the best thing going as they're the IP control tyre but I had a set of freshish Brdgestone RE55's in the WT2 compound just in case as they are a wet coumpound and I have since run them in the rain and you barely have to back off with them as they are that good but I didn't want tear them apart in the dry. That is why I nailed it out of the pits and if you watch an IP or a Sports Sedan race that is what is done to gauge the grip as quite a lot of time on the newer type hotmix's just because it wet or has that sheen across doesn't mean it'll be slippery as Lakeside wasn't that bad in the rain when there was some rubber down.

Another thing with some of the non- Yokohama R tyres is they don't need any heat in the wet or the dry as they are usually good cold and tend to go off when hot like the Bridgestone WT's and Dunlop S's

As far as not seeing the flags, the windows were fogging up and I was pretty busy tring to keep the thing in a straight line down the straight so if you saw the whies of my eyes you were doing well as I wasn't looking at you guys as I was looking straight ahead, propbably similar to the instance where someone said I gave the finger to the flaggies, Yeah I was waving at them coming out of the carousel but I never give the finger to someone giving up their own time so we can have fun

As far the noise issue the car has been measured numerous times by good quality computorised monitor equipment as well as by the EPA directly in NSW again in the last month and does not go over 92db. If they would go to that much trouble themselves to quantify the levels they would be saving themselves alot of grief as John says he's already had to kick a guy out in a Ferrari 599 that was straight off the showroom floor for hitting 99db and complains that the exhaust wasn't ADR approved.

The gear they are using is causing them grief in similar way that MGCC was having using CAMS's old radio Shack meter

All I can say guys after talking to John is you guys better make the most it as it's a long way from a certainty with the council as they are being unrealistic

Danny

[Marlin]

I can't agree with "other" r comps besides Yoki's not perfoming better with heat in the wet..... but we'll just agree to disagree.

I don't believe anyone would give a marshall the finger as you say they are volunteers.

On noise, I'm not entering the debate about QR's recording accuracy, but I will highlight why some factory cars won't pass. ADR states that the noise test is recorded between two points, at maximum acceleration from a prescribed speed, in a prescribed gear.

I don't know the figures off my head, but lets say it's in second gear, from 30klm/h, and the test lasts 60 mteres. A Hyundai won't accelerate much, and may reach say 50klm/h. A Frezza will go harder, maybe say, reaching 80klm/h and 5500 rpm...... BUT, Ferrari/Asrton?Audi et all design their exhaust secondary vavles to open over the speed obtained in the test, and thats when they get too loud to both comply with the ADR and of course these track days. It's a sneaky way around it, but it's legal, but at restricted tracks it's always been an issue. Only have to look at the UK's experience for years to see that.