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"adaptronic" Engine Management Systems ?

discopotato03

By discopotato03,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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discopotato03 Grand Master

discopotato03

Posted
Posted

Just out of curiosity has anyone used one of these ?

On their site they mention a version that has an adapter loom to plug into an R33 GTS25T - but uses map sensing .

From what I hear one of their selling points is that it runs constantly in learning mode so is supposed to be able to adapt to changing circumstances .

Anyone ?

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Jason Broadhurst
Jason Broadhurst

Wasted spark is usually fine. Lets do the math for it, I enjoy maths anyway (wtf)? At 8000rpm you have 15ms per 2 rotations (4 stroke) so you have 7.5ms to charge, discharge and rest a wasted spark s

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joel234 Rookie

joel234

Posted
Posted

a very good friend of mine is running an adaptronic on his beams 3sge, and it seems to do the job quite well, we hook the laptop up to it regularly, im not sure on the model but it has all the tuning capabilities of the big brand computers, and a lot cheaper than them also, and there Australian company as well ?? , but he is more than happy with it, and another mate is looking into getting the plug and play option for his 25det also

murrayis Mentor

murrayis

Posted
Posted (edited)

I run the adaptronic on my rb20det made 320hp on 18psi with a 2876r on the side of it.

Appears very easy to use, has Self tuning and closed loop only downside which really isn't to much of a downside is it only has 4 injector outputs, But this will be changed in the new model comming out next year. I picked mine up new for $990

Heres a couple of screenshots from my tune.

post-23119-1222055566_thumb.jpg

post-23119-1222055578_thumb.jpg

post-23119-1222055591_thumb.jpg

post-23119-1222055600_thumb.jpg

If you want to see any of the other screens let me know :blush:

Edited by murrayis
MBS206 Grand Master

MBS206

Posted
Posted

I run one,

Ran my RB25DET and now is running my RB25/30DET.

Absolutely no issues with it.

If you look on the field apps page at the white R33 that's on there. That's my one.

It can be ran in one of 4 modes.

Open Loop, uses no O2 feedback

Closed Loop, Uses O2 feedback and trims the maps by a percentage, this percentage is erased each time the engine is started.

Slow converge, uses O2 feedback to SLOWLY modify the fuel values in the fuel map. This takes a long time, and is good to run in to get the maps just perfect at cruise.

Fast Learn, uses O2 feedback and very quickly makes changes to the map. Running in this mode is for tuning only really, whack it in this mode with a wideband, when the fuel map is a fair way out, or you've just made some changes to the setup and need to retune.

ECU also has features such as Launch Control, Traction Control, a few boost cuts, air temp correction, water temp correction, Soft rev limits, and hard rev limits, log direct onto a laptop, also has the video controller that plugs into a 7" tv screen as an extra unit.

The Map sensor, is also tapped into the wires that run to your AFM, so you unplug your AFM, T into these wires, and wire the map sensor in (3 wires that you have to solder and tape in) and then connect the Map sensor in physically. The loom is a simple plug and play. Go nuts setup. Works perfectly.

Any questions, PM me.

MBS206 Grand Master

MBS206

Posted
Posted
They are a very capable unit, however i have issues with andy selling plug and play units without an Air temp sensor, which is absolutely essential for a map sensored ECU.

Why do you say this?

MBS206 Grand Master

MBS206

Posted
Posted
with out air temp you can not know air density, there for pressure alone is useless...

The change in density would be minimal though, to the point, that cars tuned on the road, generally have a safe tune in them, that the minor amount that they can lean out from this heat up, is negated from the slightly extra fuel anyway.

That and the fact the car can run in closed loop, so it can richen or lean out the mixtures accordingly

MBS206 Grand Master

MBS206

Posted
Posted (edited)
Every map sensor equipped ecu i have seen, power fc, autronic, motec, haltech all use the air temp sensor, so i assume it is needed.

That adaptronic, can use it, if you buy one. The only difference I'd be able to see, is if the PowerFC, Autronic, Motec, Haltech etc, COME with the air temp sensor, which, from my limited reading on these ECUs, they don't come with one either... They may, please correct me if they do.

So I don't see the issue here. If you want one, run it. I haven't had an issue with mine, without running one, but I keep my tune conservative, not on the edge.

To tune the air temp correction properly, you need to run the car on the dyno in different heats, and then adjust the temp correction, but, at the same time, humidity will also affect the tune, so how many of us are running ECUs that can alter for it?

Edited by MBS206
Adriano Grand Master

Adriano

Posted
Posted (edited)

2 points: Autronic does not have an air temp fuel correction map, this is for a very good reason, its a mathematical formulae, whereby the change in temp effects density.

The change is far more than you would believe. I have tuned 2 cars with adaptronics without Air temp sensors. The frist one was a brumby with no intercooler, left with a 12:1 tune at WOT. Customer fitted a water/air intercooler, running exactly the same boost, came back running 14:1 WOT. The other car was tuned conservatively in winter, and when it got hot in summer would blow black smoke. So i could either retune it every 6 months, or lean it out, then in winter it would run lean.

I understand that the sensors are available, and there is a table in there, but for the added expense to adaptronic to make the product correctly, i wouldnt risk it, i mean all the ecu's should come with it, and the table should be set and locked. I mean put it this way, if you are a customer, and have a P&P ecu fitted, then down the track the motor blows due to the ecu who do you blame?

I have the formula somewhere for the change in density VS air temp, and it is quite substantial, there is also the effect of humidity, but i think the design of an air temp sensor must incorporate this also.

Edited by Adriano
murrayis Mentor

murrayis

Posted
Posted

Its easy enough to wire up the Air temp Sensor, For the price of the ECU and what it does it does allow some leaway for you to give it the benifit of not coming with the temp sensor.

Still if you add the cost of a temp sensor to the ecu and plug in harness your still under $1400 for a ecu that does alot of the same functions as alot higher priced ECU's on the market today.

I am going to be installing a temp sensor with my adaptronic jsut to be safe on my new engine but it ran my old rb20 with 300hp atw with no problems for 12 months and didn't see any large amounts of black smoke

STATUS Grand Master

STATUS

Posted
Posted (edited)
For that reason I don;t know why people don't recommend them more oftern.

few reasons, but they are a very simple budget ECU that gives competant results (tuned them on 4age's and turbo hondas)

i would seriously wait for a full 6 channel IGN and INJ model before fitting it to any of my customers cars.. till then it will remain the 4cyl base ecu.

Edited by URAS
Silhouette-R Enthusiast

Silhouette-R

Posted
Posted

What do you mean by 4 cyl ecu??

I've got one running my 26/30 n/a setup and it seems to be coping well with the 140 rwkw it's made.

The only thing I can say wrong about it, that when trying to turn my car over sometimes the CAS and the ECU have a conflict and sort of cut the ignition out, only does it every now and again.

discopotato03 Grand Master

discopotato03

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Yes I have the impression that its mainly aimed at 4 cylinder engines with its four injector and four coil drivers in the box .

The air temperature and therefore density issue is a biggie and without some means of knowing what the temperature of the air is I'd say it's impossible to tune for a wide variation in atmospheric conditions .

The Autronic I used to have (SMC) had I think options for an air temp correction map or what they called a charge temp estimation table which works much better .

The thing I never forgot was that some switched on tuners used to put a MAF sensor in front of map sensed engines while they tuned them , message in there somewhere .

A .

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