Running An R32 Gtr In 3j Improved Production

[JimmyRickard]

What are the required specs of an R32 GTR running Improved production? Had a look at the CAMS regs and they weren't much help. Apart from the obvious things such as rollcage, fixed seats, battery relocation etc. what are the restrictions on it, as far as brakes, turbos, boost level, cams, injectors, suspension, ECU, gearbox and other engine modifications are concerned?

It's just that I am in the process of taking the engine out to extend the sump, and don't want to overengineer the car to the point where it won't be eligible to race sometime in the future.

Also, does anyone here race in it? I noticed the BSM GTR is successful, but that's the only one i've seen out there!

Cheers!

[R TUNE]

hey mate how you going.

so i see your planing on doing the same as me (but i got a gts)

have a look at the following thread http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Ra...es-t235583.html

there is a link a few post down which will lead you to the 3j spercific rules.

and if your in vic i recermend centerline suspension to help you out in that department.

hope it helps brentt

[hrd-hr30]

SSS Automotive race one too. Not as competitively as BSM/Loftus

you will need to spend an absolute fortune to make one competitive, and be prepared to keep replacing front diffs. Far better off buying the 2nd BSM car if its still for sale. It finished 6th or 7th in the 2007 Nationals IIRC.

Sport Sedans of some of the Sports Car categories would be a better choice for racing an R32 GTR IMO, 3J is just far too restrictive on Late Model turbo cars and you need to spend serious coin to work around that.

Edited September 27, 2008 by hrd-hr30

[JimmyRickard]

After reading through the IPRA forums it sounds like what you guys say is right, a competitive GTR will cost a lot of money.

And a sports sedan would have to be making some ridiculous power to be anywhere near competitive.

What's the Sports Car category? I've never heard of it. And how do GTR's perform in 3e?

[Duncan]

I've got a 3E gtr and it is front running. when it is running lol. much more competitive than in 3j where you would either need to be very committed or mad to think you could win.

I'm also working on a 3D GTR but we probably won't race it, mostly sprints and hillclimbs. It is a very competitive category at the pointy end of the field which huge amounts of money spent

BTW the NSW state champs were on today, results as follows;

My car, Production Cars - DNS (like most of the season)

Geoff SSS Improved Production (12th, 5th, about 1.51 - yes slower than the production car due to the 2x28mm restrictors )

Lofty BSM Sports sedan - DNS (did a motor on friday and gearbox on saturday apparently)

[Sydneykid]

I've got a 3E gtr and it is front running. when it is running lol. much more competitive than in 3j where you would either need to be very committed or mad to think you could win.

I'm also working on a 3D GTR but we probably won't race it, mostly sprints and hillclimbs. It is a very competitive category at the pointy end of the field which huge amounts of money spent

BTW the NSW state champs were on today, results as follows;

My car, Production Cars - DNS (like most of the season)

Geoff SSS Improved Production (12th, 5th, about 1.51 - yes slower than the production car due to the 2x28mm restrictors )

Lofty BSM Sports sedan - DNS (did a motor on friday and gearbox on saturday apparently)

Geoffs GTR was in 2wd for the trophy race as it broke a front driveshaft earlier, there's an entertaining video on the IPRA forum.

Yes Dunk, we did win the trophy race, with 4 of us working flat out for 2 days on getting the new thing up to at least a reasonable speed (47's)

Cheers

Gary

[Duncan]

47s aint bad for an old rotor junker....good luck at the nats.

but I stand by my comments about turbo skylines and improved production - without a real committment to spend, you will be right down the back of the grid somewhere

[Sydneykid]

I don't think you would be "right down the back of the grid" with a sensible (for racing) budget spent on an R32GTR. It's when you want to win, that the cost gets all out of proportion. MrB has the #2 BSM car for sale for ~$60K and it would run top 5 in NSW at the 3 tracks and top 3 anywhere else in the country. If it rains, it's a guaranteed winner. I don't think $60K is outrageous, it would cost about that to get an RX7 into the top 5 and way more than that for a V8 (Foulcan or Commondoor). But if you want to go from top 5 to winning, then you would more than double that cost.

Cheers

Gary

PS, it was on a 46.8 on the last lap but got baulked by a lapped car. Needs to do 45's at the Nationals and the "A" driver will be in it for that.

[Duncan]

good work Gary, but I heard the A driver drives like a girl Will be good to see how it goes at the nationals.

Gary, I personally think the car Geoff is selling is an absolute bargain at $60k and a great way to be in the top 5 of the NSW IPRA series. THhe buyer will be paying only $60k for 3 or 4 times that already spent on the car and it's development

But,.....and its a big but....I don't get the impression that $60k up front is bigjimmystyle's budget. the days of spending $5-$10k on a club car and getting to the front of the grid are long over. I think most of the people on here are not aware just how expensive full racing in the NSW champs can be.

As an example I have spent over $50k on my production car over 5 years. And I only manage a race or 2 every year.

Most people who want a track car have a budget of under $10k a year like me which means they cannot be competitive in 3J/Improved production grids.

[JimmyRickard]

We actually built and run a Commodore Cup car as well, so I'm well aware of the expense that is required to be successful in these categories. I was more just looking to do clubsprints in the car, and than possibly progress later into something like 3J or 3E, but it sounds like it would be best to stick with the Commo for door-to-door and just have some fun with the GTR

[Duncan]

haha serves me right for assuming So....roughly much does a national season of commonwhore cup cost?

a gtr sports sedans built for sprints/hillclimbs/trackdays/club stuff is a good option I think, and I am building one atm. Normally you would build a club car like that to 3E regs but with the restrictor rules its just not worth it. Its only if you want to go racing and be competitive that costs get over the top

[gtstcruiser67]

The Nationals are incredibly expensive..any racing is to be honest.

Well you can always run in the AASA events under Super TT. There are no restrictions.

Also there is the Wakefield 300 in November with the classes are based on times as some 'bike series' seem to do and it work well for their series.

So you nominate your time to establish your class, go out for practice and qualifying.

After this you are re grouped if required to the relivent class and off you go.

Go race for 300km !!

This way you dont have to spend enormous amounts of cash to enjoy racing and be competitive.

ITs also open to all tin top cars so its Porsche,Supercar,GTR,Salon cars, MR2, production cars, IP cars and more.

[Duncan]

OK I don't want to be negative about the AASA Super TT category, and I fully intend to do their rounds in NSW.

But....and its a big but....the lack of regs around the category actually keep serious racers away. The CAMS regs (3E/3J/3D) have been built over 50 years and extensively tested by protests and results every year over that time. Yes 3J is a bad option for turbo cars (the future) but overall the distinction between the classes is good. SuperTT on the other hand, you can't expect to win unless you spend the most, which makes it the same as CAMS 3D. Yes it is easy to do a single round or 2 for fun, but its not worth making a real run for the Super TT champs - which basically just makes it club racing like the mini club run, not a championship

sorry this is very off topic.

Club car budgets and competitive race car budgets are hugely different things. A club car can be a very very cheap option, especially when you can pick up a GTR shell for about $5k.

[JimmyRickard]

haha serves me right for assuming So....roughly much does a national season of commonwhore cup cost?

How long is a piece of string? Some guys turn up with massive transporters, have two engines on standby along with spare gearboxes etc, and a set of tyres for each qualifying session and race session. We turn up pulling the car on a trailer.

We budget about 2-3K for each meet, which includes fuel (102 octane) tyres and a few other incidentals. Engine needs a rebuild say every 4-5 meetings, same with gearbox. We can only make the Sydney rounds now at the moment but we usually make about 4-5 races out of the 8, so its hard to say exactly how much it would cost for the season. It's a same make series so it makes the racing a little more interesting, as its an even playfield (theoretically speaking, money is always an advantage)

[Risking]

OK I don't want to be negative about the AASA Super TT category, and I fully intend to do their rounds in NSW.

But....and its a big but....the lack of regs around the category actually keep serious racers away. The CAMS regs (3E/3J/3D) have been built over 50 years and extensively tested by protests and results every year over that time. Yes 3J is a bad option for turbo cars (the future) but overall the distinction between the classes is good. SuperTT on the other hand, you can't expect to win unless you spend the most, which makes it the same as CAMS 3D. Yes it is easy to do a single round or 2 for fun, but its not worth making a real run for the Super TT champs - which basically just makes it club racing like the mini club run, not a championship

sorry this is very off topic.

Club car budgets and competitive race car budgets are hugely different things. A club car can be a very very cheap option, especially when you can pick up a GTR shell for about $5k.

Your right about Super TT duncan. The mini events are awesome fun, I won a round earlier this year too.

Budgets do vary massivly as well. Particularly when your moving a club car into a competative car. As ive decided its easier/faster/cheaper to build a new car from the ground up and re-use parts

[gtstcruiser67]

OK I don't want to be negative about the AASA Super TT category, and I fully intend to do their rounds in NSW.

But....and its a big but....the lack of regs around the category actually keep serious racers away. The CAMS regs (3E/3J/3D) have been built over 50 years and extensively tested by protests and results every year over that time. Yes 3J is a bad option for turbo cars (the future) but overall the distinction between the classes is good. SuperTT on the other hand, you can't expect to win unless you spend the most, which makes it the same as CAMS 3D. Yes it is easy to do a single round or 2 for fun, but its not worth making a real run for the Super TT champs - which basically just makes it club racing like the mini club run, not a championship

sorry this is very off topic.

Club car budgets and competitive race car budgets are hugely different things. A club car can be a very very cheap option, especially when you can pick up a GTR shell for about $5k.

Yes I agree with everything your have stated but STT/W300 is just another option for racing. I only mentioned it as its quite restrictive to run turbo's/4wd in IP or any form of racing for that matter and STT or the W300 is a simply another option.

I have the same problem with the MR2 in Prod sports and will set it up for 3B due to the restrictions on turbo's in the showroom sportscar class.

As long as your enjoying your time at the track, your winning.

A mechanic wisely stated at the state round last week 'spend $6k on tuning your suspension and chassis before you spend any on the engine and you will be quicker for the same money spent, which I agree with.

[JimmyRickard]

6 years later I have more or less finished my car, and am looking at getting my car eligible for 3J again.

Aside from the 2x27mm restrictors, what else do I need to consider to be eligible?

I noticed a few guys are running e85, would that be of any benefit with the restricted turbos?

[warps]

Without knowing what your car has had done to it, some of the main sticking points for IPRA eligibility are:

Elastomeric bushes must be replaced with other elastomeric bushes (maximum hardness of 90). In other words, no rose joints unless OEM (eg sway bar end links if originally used)

Control arms must be OEM, and can not be modified

You CAN reposition suspension pivot points in the crossmember to achieve camber changes etc (up to 15mm??).

Must run "upholstered" door trims (ie no bare alloy. I believe that if they are covered in vinyl then this is OK - possibly fake CF wrap on alloy sheeting might be OK

No floor mount pedal boxes unless OEM

There are plenty of other rules, but these seem to be the most common ones that trip up cars from other classes

Some light reading

http://docs.cams.com.au/Manual/Race/RA26-Group-3J-2014-1.pdf

[JimmyRickard]

These are the door trims I'm running at the moment:

So a vinyl wrap or something similar should be ok? Would have to check my suspension out to see if it complies, but engine wise is mostly standard save for -7's and supporting mods like catch can, extended sump, surge tank etc

What about boost monitoring?

What about sidepipes?

[warps]

Safest to talk to your local eligibility officer - one phone call should answer most of your questions. I'm not 100% certain about the vinyl wrap, but my interpretation of discussions on this subject tells me it would be OK. The reasoning is to try and keep the cars looking relatively standard.

Engine mods are relatively free - as long as the engine is a Nissan I6 configuration.

Boost monitoring is only required if you want to get around running restrictors, in which case you have to run stock boost (and stock turbos, I believe). Otherwise the restrictors pretty much limit your boost. On that note, the restrictors will choke the RB26 something awful, and you'll probably have a useable rev limit of 5000RPM and about 350hp MAX. You'd almost be better running a 10,000 RPM NA RB30 with wild head work.

On the exhaust, the following extract from Schedule B seems to indicate they are OK:

be fitted with sideways or rearward-facing exhaust outlets. If rearwards, the outlet/s shall be between 100mm and 450mm above the ground and shall not protrude more than 150mm beyond the rearmost portion of the automobile. If directed sideways, the outlet/s must be located rearward of the midpoint of the wheelbase. In any case, they shall not project beyond the maximum width of coachwork or terminate more than 50mm within the plan view of the adjacent coachwork

One thing to be aware of regarding the 3J regs, unless the regs say you can do something, you must assume you can't. Not the other way around.