Running An R32 Gtr In 3j Improved Production

[JimmyRickard]

Thanks for that. When you say stock turbos, do you literally mean standard ceramic Nissan turbos? I don't think that would be possible as they wouldn't last very long.

[warps]

4.5 SUPERCHARGING: Supercharging is permitted under the following conditions

(i) If a supercharger/s is recognised as standard production for the model, and all the following conditions are met, the restricting orifice referred to in 4.5(ii) need not be fitted.

• All components associated with the induction system must remain operable, in situ, and unmodified.

• There are no additional components associated with the induction system fitted.

• Maximum inlet pressure and engine static compression ratio must remain in accordance with the

manufacturer’s specifications for the vehicle.

• The engines swept volume is not varied from standard by more than 2%.

• A boost monitor, as specified by CAMS, is fitted.

[Duncan]

It would have to be the same setup as mine; R32 N1 turbos with 0.8bar boost. Makes about 250kw.

[warps]

And you'd be competing against 6L V8's, pushing 600hp +

[JimmyRickard]

It would have to be the same setup as mine; R32 N1 turbos with 0.8bar boost. Makes about 250kw.

I assume -7's don't qualify as N1 turbos?

And you'd be competing against 6L V8's, pushing 600hp +

Not looking to compete with the front runners to be honest, just want to have a dig.

Cheers

[Duncan]

They definitely mean standard...not aftermarket. Also worth being aware that the r32 n1 turbs are nasty big bush bearing 80s technology that spool up slower than -5s

[Misfit06]

6 years later I have more or less finished my car, and am looking at getting my car eligible for 3J again.

Aside from the 2x27mm restrictors, what else do I need to consider to be eligible?

I noticed a few guys are running e85, would that be of any benefit with the restricted turbos?

Have a chat to a Improved production club member be the easiest way to find out what the go is. I know there are some in the know SA members that are always will to help out

Edited March 31, 2014 by Misfit06

[hrd-hr30]

4.5 SUPERCHARGING: Supercharging is permitted under the following conditions

(i) If a supercharger/s is recognised as standard production for the model, and all the following conditions are met, the restricting orifice referred to in 4.5(ii) need not be fitted.

• All components associated with the induction system must remain operable, in situ, and unmodified.

• There are no additional components associated with the induction system fitted.

• Maximum inlet pressure and engine static compression ratio must remain in accordance with the

manufacturer’s specifications for the vehicle.

• The engines swept volume is not varied from standard by more than 2%.

• A boost monitor, as specified by CAMS, is fitted.

That's only relevant for pre 1986 cars. "Late Model" (post 1986) vehicles in IPRA must have the restrictors regardless of what turbos they use:

17.2 Supercharging may only be used if fitted as standard equipment to the model concerned. All vehicles with supercharged engines must be fitted with a restricting orifice...

Door trims must be "retained as original" under the 3J rules.

13.4 CARPET AND INTERIOR TRIM: Floor carpet and associated "underfelt", roof lining and interior trim down to the lower edge of the windows, and consoles on the transmission tunnel may be removed. All other padding, quilting and interior trim must be retained as original. It is permitted to reupholster components of interior trim.

[warps]

You'll need to talk top some eligibility officers about the upholstery issue. You most certainly do NOT need to keep the original door trims. The accepted interpretation of the rules seems to be as long as said interior trims have the same basic shape as original, and are "upholstered", then they are OK (this mainly concerns centre consoles and lower dash, but I've also seen a lot of discussion about door trims to this effect). IPRA has some very interesting and colourful interpretations of their own rules, so talk to your local EO to get the definite answer.

I've also seen talk of recent model cars running original turbos / boost without restrictors, but don't have all of the facts (it contradicted the LM restriction in the turbo rule as Harry correctly pointed out). Again, worth talking to the guys who are actually checking your car for eligibility. They are more than happy to help people in the process of building a car.

[hrd-hr30]

rule changed because so many people were breaking it not really an exaggeration - the word from officials is "reflect what was already common practise amongst competitors"

http://docs.cams.com.au/Regulations/2014%20Bulletins/B14-035%20-%20Group%203J%20Improved%20Production%20Technical%20Regulations.pdf

13.4 CARPET AND INTERIOR TRIM: Floor carpet and associated

“underfelt”, roof lining and interior trim down

to the lower edge of the

windows, and consoles on the transmission tunnel may be removed. All

other padding, quilting and interior trim must be retained as original. It is

permitted to reupholster components of interior trim.

Original door trims

may be retained or replaced with a rigid, moulded or flat panel.

Where a replacement door trim is fitted, it must be an opaque,

moulded or flat panel constructed from an upholstered rigid material

or non-metallic rigid material. The replacement door trim must cover

all openings and door skin/frame as achieved by the original trim.

Door handles, opening levers and window winders may be replaced

by one of free design situated in the same general location. Where

the original dash incorporates an upholstered crash pad, it may be

replaced by one of the same design and re-

upholstered.”

But these metallic door trims are still not legal.

That bulletin contains other ammendments for comonly broken rules such as subframe bushes. The only rule change in there not forced on them by weight of numbers breaking it is the strut brace rule.

[warps]

Those sound like TT's words over at IPRA

I get frustrated trying to understand their rules. It seems that different people have different interpretations. Don't know if you saw my queries about pedal boxes a few months ago, but my interpretation of the rule (can't move any of the pivot points more than 75mm) means I can't use a common axis pedal box in my Honda because the stock pedal box has the accelerator and brake pedal pivot points more than 150mm apart. Hence it's impossible to have them pivot about the same axis and be legal (my interpretation)

However, I'm told that "the intent" of the rule is to stop people moving the driver back by ridiculous amounts, and the rule mainly applies to brake and clutch pedals, given the number of possible variations in accelerator design. If that's so, why don't they spell it out clearly so that newbies like me trying to build a compliant car can actually understand what they intend the rule to say?

Sorry - just had to vent.

[hrd-hr30]

I hadn't, but I just had a look. The EO's think they can say black means white if it suits them. It's happened many times over the years. He's even doing it straight away with the new strut brace rule by claiming it would be part of the rollcage if it mounts to the same area on the firewall in the engine bay as a rollcage member does inside the cabin...

That rule now allows rear strut towers to be triangulated rearwards with a brace of free design as well. Could provide a useful bit of chassis stiffening for cars with strut towers in the back

Actually, the "free design" allows for some more creative interpretations than that as well. eg You could run members off a front strut tower brace forward down to the chassis rails as long as they remain "between the towers". The design is free - there's no need to say you can triangulate rearwards - the free design part already allowed that. And stipulating that you can triangulate rearwards does not preclude your free design from triangulating forwards...

Edited October 21, 2014 by hrd-hr30

[JimmyRickard]

Does anyone know why R32,33 & 34 GTR's aren't eligible for 2F Production Sports? Every other Nissan sportscar is, including the R35 GTR!

[Duncan]

I asked Robin Bailey from SCRAA that same question in 2011:

Hi Duncan

The eligibility of R33 and R34 for Sports Cars has been discussed several times in the past, and we cannot really see any reason why they cannot be recognised. We have had an R32 run with Sports Cars in Vic in the past 24 months “by invitation” as the entrant did not want to run in IPRA (3J) and Prod Sports in Vic were more than happy to have him run with us.

The bottom line is that the R32 ran as a touring car in the Aust Touring Car Champs in the Group A era, and getting it recognised as a sports car will be problematic unless there is an international history of the car running as a Sports/GT.

However, the R33 and especially R34 is a different kettle of fish. These cars never ran in Australia as touring cars, and I believe that they can be “measured” as sports cars (effectively a measurement from the rear bulkhead to the dash).

The SCRAA is a voluntary group who assists CAMS with eligibility requests (a simple euphemism for getting the entrants to do the paperwork), so the process is 2-fold:

1. We need a recognition document to be created (the template is attached)

2. We need a submission from a knowledgeable person (such as yourself on a member of your club) to supply information about competition history of the vehicle – I know that the R34 ran in the Japanese Super-GT series for instance, running against turbo Supra’s etc … all of which helps to support the view that the car(s) warrant recognition as “sports cars”.

Once this information is available, the submission is considered b SCRAA membership (and this may involve discussion with yourself – as the submitter for instance) and a recommendation for eligibility is made to CAMS for their sole consideration and agreement. The CAMS Australian Motor Race Commission is the body who makes the final decision.

The SCRAA membership is made up of representatives from Prod Sports NSW, Prod Sports Qld, Prod Sports Vic, individual representatives from SA and WA, plus the 2 “Super Sports” clubs in NSW and QLD (these look after eligibility of the motor-bike engines sports cars like the Radical, ADR etc).

The Prod Sports NSW rep is Brian Anderson and I will forward your details to him and ask that he make contact to assist in getting the required submission details created.

I hope this helps.

Regards

[JimmyRickard]

Very interesting Duncan. Seems like they are splitting hairs? It's a 2 door coupe, if a 200SX qualifies then surely a GTR does.

Is there any evidence of R32's running in anything other than Group A?