"affordable" Cars With A Dsg?

[Snowman]

DSG's (or should I say a dual clutch transmission) are one of those new automotive toys that will eventually dominate the automotive world much like its predecessor the tiptronic gearbox did.

But unlike the tiptronic gearbox - which really is rubbish - the DSG is a truely great thing and the more I've been exposed to them the more I think I may never want to buy a genuine manual gearbox again. So many forum hero's rubbish these things and I know it's been one of the complaints of the new GT-R but if you ever really get a chance to see what one of these things can do and understand how much the driver still needs to input one to make a car drive perfectly and yet discover how much one of these things can improve your driving compared to a manual stick you'll understand why some people like me think they are the bee's knees.

The hardest part is finding cars which actually have one that normal people can afford. Just because a car as some flappy paddles attached to the steering wheel doesn't mean it has a DSG gearbox. The ever reveired Jerermy Clarkson often goes on about how he hates "flappy paddle gearboxes" but usually the ones he complains about are actually just tiptronics (which I agree are rubbish). More and more he is starting to compliment them and everytime he has it has been a DSG box and yet he has never publically put 2 and 2 together on this front. I guess the hard part is people keep calling all these things different things.

For example - BMW have their SMG gearboxes but they are just a tiptronic gearbox. They have just released their first DSG style box in the new M3 only within the last month and won't be available until the end of the year I think. Other big names like Aston Martin, Porsche and Mercedes also use tiptronics which are really no different to the ones found in all the falcadores and magnas.

The first experiences I had with a propper DGS was in a Maserati Gran Sport which is the same unit as found in the 360 Straddale, which has been since improved in the F430. The one in the Audi R8 is just as brilliant especially on a track. But the hard part is all of these cars are so expensive and the new GT-R is going to fall under this catagory as well.

So the point of this thread was to try and work-out which cars currently that fall under "Affordable" (which I'm classing as under $100K) actually have one of these gearboxes as last night I could only think of a few.

I've driven both the VW Golf R32 and the Passat R36 and their ones are one of the best. So much so that it was one of the deciding factors in my ordering one of the new R36 Passat Wagons for the Mrs. The GTi also has it but I'm not sure if other VW's come with it or not?

I also just drove one of the new EVO X MR SST's back from Syd to Melb the fun way and again the gearbox in that was great and really what made me start this thread. But they are the only cars I can think of that have one. Is there any others I'm missing??

[DAS KAMU]

Misdirected post

Edited September 29, 2008 by DAS KAMU

[Snowman]

So all Golfs have DSG's or just the R32 and GTi which I already mentioned?

[DAS KAMU]

Misdirected post sorry mate

Edited September 29, 2008 by DAS KAMU

[Marlin]

Snowy, just have to correct you, maybe you were in a hurry.

The SMG in BMW's isn't a "tiptronic", it's an automated clutch manual gearbox. And I think it's appalling.

The term Tiptronic was coined by Porsche in the early 90's for their "sporty" auto gearboxed 911. It was the first vehicle to have the extra little selector slot beside the normal shift.

Over the years, seems most people have somehow started calling all gear selectors with the Porsche style +/- shifters Tiptronic.

I love "DSG's", IF they're in the right car. And I think we shouldn't be calling them DSG, as thats just Volkswagen's term for it. How about we call them dual clutch transmissions (DCT)?

IMO, while a DCT is great for a sports car, it's not ideal for a larger luxurious style car or tight driving situations, where a more conventional automatic 'box is much better. See what can be done with the ZF auto for instance, given the right programming and actual locking torque convertor, it can be smooth as silk, while still blipping the throttle when a manual downshift has been asked of it. A DCT on the other hand can sometimes be caught nappuing between gears, especially in auto mode. Yes, even VW's, which is seen as one of the best.

I think within 10 years, there'll be only two gearboxes offered. A smart traditional automatic box with high tech convertor lockup for great economy and smoothness, and DCT for more sporting cars.

[nismo_GTST]

My Dad has a VW Jetta with the 2.0t from the Golf GTi and has the DSG. Really is a fantastic car to drive and great if you need a bit more room over a Golf.

[Snowman]

Snowy, just have to correct you, maybe you were in a hurry.

The SMG in BMW's isn't a "tiptronic", it's an automated clutch manual gearbox. And I think it's appalling.

Meh - it's not a dual clutch which is what I'm looking for And I'm happy to call it a DCT rather than DSG. But sometimes the 1st ones just stick. It's like ordering a scotch and coke rather than a scotch and cola. It's the same thing even if its made with Pepsi

IMO, while a DCT is great for a sports car, it's not ideal for a larger luxurious style car or tight driving situations, where a more conventional automatic 'box is much better. See what can be done with the ZF auto for instance, given the right programming and actual locking torque convertor, it can be smooth as silk, while still blipping the throttle when a manual downshift has been asked of it. A DCT on the other hand can sometimes be caught nappuing between gears, especially in auto mode. Yes, even VW's, which is seen as one of the best.

Yeah but in all the ones I've driven when you have been driving around town they are perfect in Auto mode. As that is when having the Auto option is gold. When driving the EVO back from Syd we had the car in Auto when cruising along the freeways and when driving through Canberra but as soon as we got into the twisties the SST was turned on and the stability control was turned off and the fun began in ernest. It really was the best of all worlds.

The only problem was it's an EVO. But the R36 is a corker of a car from the short time I had in it

But it sounds like the VW's and the EVO are all we have as options right?

[Roy]

So what do you do with your left foot? Tap away pretending you are the drummer from Fear Factory?

[Snowman]

Ever heard of left foot braking?? It's this little thing some racecar (and forklift) drivers do

[Roy]

Aston , Jag etc are also manualised Autos. My understanding is that you have dual clutch DSG, manual cars that have hydraulics for clutch activation (Ferrari etc) and then you have the autos which have a manual option with different degrees of success. Some bad, some really good

[Marlin]

Yeh Snowy... I reckon the Golf Gti is the kickoff point for a true sporty DCT car at the moment.

Although, for under 20k, you can get one of these with a robotised manual, ala SMG, assuming you don't mind going nuts trying to drive it smoothly ;

Edited September 29, 2008 by Marlin

[Marlin]

So what do you do with your left foot? Tap away pretending you are the drummer from Fear Factory?

Mate, wait til you drive a 35 gtr, you'll be sold on the DCT virtues believe me. Although it might not be as satisfying as a trad manual, the pace you can get by not worrying having the right gear is astounding, especially on a road you're not familiar with, and it's where the 35 gets alot of its pace from. It's nuts!!!!

The only unfortuante thing is, and its only in SOME situations, it won't let you left foot brake and have throttle at the same time, no doubt something the tuning companies will be working on.

[silva33]

The deisel Golfs also have DSG I just sold one that my missus had and it was a great gearbox

[Snowman]

Ah see here's what I'm talking about. I litterally just read that the new 2009 Audi S3 will have DCT. They will start coming in droves (and this car could be just what I'm looking for!)

[Marlin]

And why wouldn'y it.... it's a Golf in a fancy frock. Not that there's anything wrong with wearing a nice frock.

Arrghh, you get what i mean

Edited September 30, 2008 by Marlin

[Snowman]

Since when do Golfs come with 200kw 2.0L turbocharged engines and AWD?

Or do you mean they have just taken the best bits of all the golfs and put it into one car and then put a different badge on it? (And hopefully the same sound system as the S8 has - now THATS impressive).

[Marlin]

Pretty much what i meant yes. Much like an R32 Golf, with the 2l turbo instead of that delicious sounding "V6".

You're sounding a bit like a VWAG fan mate

Did the R8 drive day brainwash you?

[Snowman]

Actually it was the lap in the Golf GTi around the Nurburgring that got me started and it's been going downhill everytime I've driven one of these DCT's since.

[vinnie32GTS4]

My Dad has a VW Jetta with the 2.0t from the Golf GTi and has the DSG. Really is a fantastic car to drive and great if you need a bit more room over a Golf.

my dad has one too

awsome car..dont even feel the gears change and its bloudy fast i tells ya

[HEKT1K]

audi tt have them... bit of a woman's car but still sexy deep down... +1 for lightning fast gearchanges etc

that said, there are few things i would love more than the new 911 with porsche's DPK box.. .drool