Porsche Claims Nissan Cheated On Nurburg

[sav man]

Porsche are claiming r-spec tyres (semi slicks)....which arn't avalible for 20". And even if they did pull a swifty and put the Prototype RE55's on, you would be able to hear them screaming (they have realy bad road noise)

Edited October 3, 2008 by sav man

[ras1983]

the other question is whether or not the car porsche bought still had the speed limiter. if the car was restricted to 180kph then clearly it would be slower compared to the same car without the speed limiter. I'm certain the GTR hit speeds over 180kph when being tested...

having said that I still don't believe the car can do 7:29 with only 480BHP. That's just too fast, i don't care what anyone says. I believe nissan is lying about power output, and it wouldn't be the first time :-/

Edited October 3, 2008 by ras1983

[scathing]

Porsche grabbed a US one, which wouldn't have a 180km/hr speed limiter. I don't know if the export models have any limiter at all. Nissan has said they designed the car to cruise comfortably at 190mph in a manner that permits the occupants to have a conversation. While that's only legal in Germany, I think they let the car do that anywhere.

Given the fact that the speed limiter is GPS-based rather than hard coded and its been programed to de-limit itself at race tracks you'd think that Nissan would "easter egg" the GPS limiter and include the Nurburgring in all GT-Rs "exception lists", regardless of where it was sold, given the importance of the track to the car.

[Zoggy]

this is probably causing a shit fight on the corvette and 911 forums

Edited October 3, 2008 by Zoggy

[Duncan]

suggesting a live axle is not the world's best suspension design is enough to start a shit fight on the corvette forums.....

[pixel8r]

the other question is whether or not the car porsche bought still had the speed limiter. if the car was restricted to 180kph then clearly it would be slower compared to the same car without the speed limiter. I'm certain the GTR hit speeds over 180kph when being tested...

having said that I still don't believe the car can do 7:29 with only 480BHP. That's just too fast, i don't care what anyone says. I believe nissan is lying about power output, and it wouldn't be the first time :-/

Its not about top speed, its about average speed. That comes down to tyres and suspension (and chassis and a whole lot of other things) much more than just the hp the engine peaks at. I'd say the GT-R has plenty of power, remembering that the nurburgring isn't all straights. Plenty of reviewers have commented that the GT-R can hold a higher average cornering speed than the porsche - and that its much easier to get consistently good results from it. Even in a straight line its been proven to acheive anywhere from 3.3 - 3.6sec 0-100km/h, which is faster than a lot of cars that weigh less and have more power. You can talk physics forever but no one can argue with the times its pulled in so many independent tests. Peak engine power is only a fraction of the picture. What matters more is how quickly it reaches that, and how it goes about putting it to the ground. There are so many variables that I dont think making a comparison based on weight and peak power is even remotely possible.

I dont believe Nissan is lying. or even if they were, how many other tests, including our own Top Gear Australia, have come up with the GT-R being quicker than the 911 turbo round a track? Its been all over the news all year. If everyone else's results are showing the nissan as being faster, then why would Nissan need to fake a lap time?

[tridentt150v]

I still haven't heard Nissan whinging..............in fact I think they would be grateful to Porsche for the publicity by association. It also seems that other manufacturers are now keen to 'benchmark' their product's achievements against the R35 in the reference list, not bad for a car that is only new on the scene.

And no, I haven't driven a porsche or an R35, I'm one of the poor masses who dreams of such things [but I don't need to have done so for the comments Ive made].

[ras1983]

Its not about top speed, its about average speed. That comes down to tyres and suspension (and chassis and a whole lot of other things) much more than just the hp the engine peaks at. I'd say the GT-R has plenty of power, remembering that the nurburgring isn't all straights. Plenty of reviewers have commented that the GT-R can hold a higher average cornering speed than the porsche - and that its much easier to get consistently good results from it. Even in a straight line its been proven to acheive anywhere from 3.3 - 3.6sec 0-100km/h, which is faster than a lot of cars that weigh less and have more power. You can talk physics forever but no one can argue with the times its pulled in so many independent tests. Peak engine power is only a fraction of the picture. What matters more is how quickly it reaches that, and how it goes about putting it to the ground. There are so many variables that I dont think making a comparison based on weight and peak power is even remotely possible.

I dont believe Nissan is lying. or even if they were, how many other tests, including our own Top Gear Australia, have come up with the GT-R being quicker than the 911 turbo round a track? Its been all over the news all year. If everyone else's results are showing the nissan as being faster, then why would Nissan need to fake a lap time?

I don't doubt the performance; what I doubt is the power claim Nissan is making. Some Dyno graphs in the US by a magazine or two suggest the car is making 500-510 BHP, maybe more. This wouldn't be the first time Nissan has lied about power figures of course; who can forget the '206kW' R34 N1 which ran a mid 12 quarter mile when Wheels magazine tested it a couple of years ago?

[boost_junkieR32]

Porsche shouldn't be the only ones worried. The GTR price point will undercut or be on par with the W427 from Holden (not mentioning the M3 or C63). Seriously, who would even contemplate the Holden? Its acceleration and quarter mile times are the same as a bog stock R32 GTR, which is now 19 years old. In a bang for buck comparison, the R35 will absolutely destroy the Commodore. I think the only one who can sort the Porsche vs GTR debate is the Stig; give him each car in question and get Clarkson's comments at the end - it would also be one of the top rating Top Gear episodes ever, I believe.

[sh@un]

I don't doubt the performance; what I doubt is the power claim Nissan is making. Some Dyno graphs in the US by a magazine or two suggest the car is making 500-510 BHP, maybe more. This wouldn't be the first time Nissan has lied about power figures of course; who can forget the '206kW' R34 N1 which ran a mid 12 quarter mile when Wheels magazine tested it a couple of years ago?

yeah- that was a bit of a joke. R34 N1 makes at least 420hp fresh outta the box. but they were still bound by the 'gentlemans agreement' back then. what reason do they have for under-quoting the power now?

Seriously, who would even contemplate the Holden?

they will sell every single one of them. completely different market demographic

a good number of them will prolly never see anything but sunny sunday drives, if that even

[scathing]

The GTR price point will undercut or be on par with the W427 from Holden (not mentioning the M3 or C63). Seriously, who would even contemplate the Holden?

Someone who needs to seat 5 in comfort?

Someone who doesn't want to get out of their car every time they drop off people?

Someone who wants to tow something?

[GTR-N1]

Sour grapes.

Every comparison I have seen (Even Top Gear Australia last night) the GTR has out-done the Porsche. The funniest thing from last night's will be the claim that it was the Haltech GTR, so it was modified. Funny bit, even modified it would still be a cheaper can than the Porsche, just as reliable, and most importantly, it FLOGGED THE PORSCHE.

B.

You're right about independent comparisons Brian, being seen by the masses as being the credible yardstick.

Otherwise, 'Barneys' between Porsche & Nissan will always be viewed as 'he says-he says' yaddayadda.

CAR Magazine (UK). Remember that one?

Comparison between R35 GTR & Audi R8 on the road. GTR

Comparison between R35 GTR & Z06 on a tarmac drag. GTR

Comparison bewtween R35 GTR & Porsche 911 on a circuit. GTR

You mentioned the Haltech R35 GTR?

Well now that it has a new ECU (17/08/08) helping it to deliver 371AWKw over its standard 292AWKw, there is another quantum leap forward by the GTR over most of its 'Supercar' opposition including the Z06.

[Adriano]

I wonder which tyres the gtr had, isnt it possible the "test" car had the all season run flat tyres with a full tank of USA's 91 octane, not optimised tyre pressures, and a not overly enthusiastic driver.

[Silvia GTR]

Nissan really has em shaking in their boots...

[Roy]

You mentioned the Haltech R35 GTR?

Well now that it has a new ECU (17/08/08) helping it to deliver 371AWKw over its standard 292AWKw, there is another quantum leap forward by the GTR over most of its 'Supercar' opposition including the Z06.

Damn....the time could, in fact probably has merit. But i wouldnt be surprised if the test car had a trick ECU. I mean part of the R&D on the car would have been at elevated power and torque levesl to ensure durability of the driveline so would have been piss easy to run the car in that state of tune?!?!

Either way, the ZR1 spanks both....GO RWD, 3 PEDALLED SEPPO POWER!

[GTR-N1]

Damn....the time could, in fact probably has merit. But i wouldnt be surprised if the test car had a trick ECU. I mean part of the R&D on the car would have been at elevated power and torque levesl to ensure durability of the driveline so would have been piss easy to run the car in that state of tune?!?!

Either way, the ZR1 spanks both....GO RWD, 3 PEDALLED SEPPO POWER!

Can't you imagine Gohsn saying,

WHEN GTR BEATS PORSCHE, WE CELEBRATE!

WHEN PORSCHE BEATS GTR THEY PRETEND NOT TO CELEBRATE!

[Zoggy]

Either way, the ZR1 spanks both....GO RWD, 3 PEDALLED SEPPO POWER!

Then god created the V Spec

[hrd-hr30]

anyone see Targa West coverage on TV on Saturday?

R35 GTR on original equipment tyres driven by unkown 23yo listening to doof doof music beats Jim Richards' Porsche GT2 fair and square...

more tissues porsche?

[pintaline]

You mentioned the Haltech R35 GTR?

Well now that it has a new ECU (17/08/08) helping it to deliver 371AWKw over its standard 292AWKw, there is another quantum leap forward by the GTR over most of its 'Supercar' opposition including the Z06.

watched an R35 on the dyno here in canberra a few weekends ago, stock as far as i know, 322awkw

D.

[GTR-N1]

You mentioned the Haltech R35 GTR?

Well now that it has a new ECU (17/08/08) helping it to deliver 371AWKw over its standard 292AWKw, there is another quantum leap forward by the GTR over most of its 'Supercar' opposition including the Z06.

watched an R35 on the dyno here in canberra a few weekends ago, stock as far as i know, 322awkw

After the SAU-Envy Dyno Day on 16/08/08 when the Haltech R35 pulled 292AWKw, it had to be tuned as well as have the new ECU installed. The car only came in overnight from Melb at that stage.

D.