Car Wont Start

[Finny]

Hi guys,

I am coming to the end of a 12 month project on my car.

The character limit would stop me from posting my mod list but any way its an RB30DET, I am running individual Bosch coil packs mounted on the firewall and 900cc injectors.

I put my Microtech LT12s in with its base tune.

I have to trailer my car 200Km to a dyno tuner so I want to make sure every thing is perfect when I get there so I don't have to trailer it all the way back.

If I try to start my car the starter motor just turns the engine over and there is no ignition what so ever, no firing at all.

You would kind of expect this considering base tune is for 370cc injectors and I am running 900cc injectors but surly there is petrol there you would think at least a pop or something from it. I checked for sparks and there is defiantly spark there, those botch coils throw a huge spark. I am not too sure about fuel though, I can't tell if the injectors are pulsing.

Also the microtech makes a wierd noise when you try and start the car, like there is a relay inside the microtech turning on and off really quickly. Sounds like a buzzer but I assume its a relay.

I changed my a few things on the microtech to lower the fuel down and it makes no difference.

Edited October 5, 2008 by Finny

[murrayis]

with the ignition on, and the CAS off take it out and spin it around slowly you should be able to hear the injectors fire its just a clicking sound.

You may want to do this for each inector, unplug them all then plug them in 1 at a time while spinning the cas if they all click then theres a signal getting to them from the ecu.

On a side note you may want to pull the fuses on your fuel pump so you dont flood the engine with fuel while testing.

Hope this helps.

Edited October 5, 2008 by murrayis

[blind_elk]

Consider this - the injectors you have are about 2.5 times the flow rate of the base-tune. That would suggest you are pumping in 2.5 times the fuel. That means something like a 5:1 AFR.

Do you really think an engine can run with a 5:1 AFR? (maybe if the fuel was Methanol)

[Finny]

Consider this - the injectors you have are about 2.5 times the flow rate of the base-tune. That would suggest you are pumping in 2.5 times the fuel. That means something like a 5:1 AFR.

Do you really think an engine can run with a 5:1 AFR? (maybe if the fuel was Methanol)

It ussualy helps if you read the the whole thread before posting.

I have modified the fuel map on my microtech and it makes no difference.

I am not concerned that it doesn't start I am more concerned that I get no ignition what so ever.

I had these injectors installed while I had standard ECU and I could wind the car over and it would cough and splutter and cry about being soo rich. At the moment I get NOTHING... car just winds over like it has no fuel.

[Finny]

with the ignition on, and the CAS off take it out and spin it around slowly you should be able to hear the injectors fire its just a clicking sound.

You may want to do this for each inector, unplug them all then plug them in 1 at a time while spinning the cas if they all click then theres a signal getting to them from the ecu.

On a side note you may want to pull the fuses on your fuel pump so you dont flood the engine with fuel while testing.

Hope this helps.

I would like to try this but I.... can't.

When I built my engine the key behind the CAS snapped off... so there is nothing to line the CAS up against.

It took me AGES to get the CAS in the right position. I would replace my CAS as I have a few spares but its actually the key on the head and not the key on the CAS. If you are not sure what I am taking about, CAS has a half circle and the head has a half circle and when you put the CAS in it makes it so you can't put the CAS in at the wrong angle. CAS at wrong angle doesn't make engine happy

[murrayis]

YEs I have seen this happen before. Get a new Exhaust cam shaft unless its a aftermarket one a rb26 or rb25 Exhaust cam should be easy to get shipped too you.

If this is the case are you 100% sure you got the CAS in the correct place? the last time I saw this exact same issue when the key snapped off u could turn it over all day and nothing would happen we replaced the cam lines the cas up correct and fired instantly

[Finny]

Yes there is a trick to getting it up fitted correctly with out the key.

You have to be @ TDC and then line up a mark on the CAS.

I have reground cams :'(

I also have an R32 RB25DE head on top of a RB30E block.

Not sure if there is a difference between R32 RB25DE cams and R33 RB25DET cams.

Might smash some wild after market cams in when I get around to it.

Also the car has been running after I broke the key....

I had the car running on stock injectors and stock ECU for about 1500km to run in the engine after the key snaped out.

Edited October 7, 2008 by Finny

[blind_elk]

It ussualy helps if you read the the whole thread before posting.

I have modified the fuel map on my microtech and it makes no difference.

I am not concerned that it doesn't start I am more concerned that I get no ignition what so ever.

I had these injectors installed while I had standard ECU and I could wind the car over and it would cough and splutter and cry about being soo rich. At the moment I get NOTHING... car just winds over like it has no fuel.

Did read it. And just read it again. Cannot, for the life of me, see any reference to you having changed the fuel maps, nor the fact that you had a broken CAS-aligning key. Nor that it used to almost run on these injectors.

It's really quite easy to align the CAS on a broken key. And it will not do a thing if it is even 1 tooth out.

How good is the battery? It might be that you are dropping too much voltage in attempting to turn the engine over, and the ECU can't cope. Try jumping off another car.

[QWK32]

what ignitor are you using? the Microtech LT-12S requires that you use an external ignitor setup (i mean external to the ecu).

Edited October 7, 2008 by QWK32

[Finny]

I am running an RB20DET igniter and external Bosch coil packs with leads rather than upgrading to spitfires or something like that.

I am getting spark as when I unplug the lead I can aim it at the cam covers and get a nice big spark when I try to start it.

Also that comment about it not running at all if its a tooth out... I have had it a tooth out a few times and it just ran really bad.. you could still drive it though. like mega retarded or advanced timing.

[murrayis]

can u hear the injectors ticking?

[Shane_954]

Also the microtech makes a wierd noise when you try and start the car, like there is a relay inside the microtech turning on and off really quickly. Sounds like a buzzer but I assume its a relay.

Sounds like an earth issue to me. Suppose your gonna tell me its not but thats where i'd be looking.

[Dahtone Racing]

first thing i would be doing is fitting a new cam, so you have the key way for the CAS

forget everything till you have fixed that

what base map does the LT12 have in it? and what CAS are you using?

[Finny]

:S.....

Disregard anything about the broken key on the cam I got the CAS lined up... it happend over 12 months ago and I have driven my car perfect after. I spent like a week trying to line the CAS up with out a key.

I just said I dont want to take my CAS out because I dont want to line it up again.

The car ran PERFECT... after I got the CAS lined up.

I am running standard CAS.

I am getting spark.

I can't hear the injectors open... they are brand new Siemen Deka 83LB low impedence injectors.

I hocked a duty cycle readout to one of the injectors and during cranking it showed up about 38% duty cycle....

I need to get a screw driver to my ear against the injector to see if I can hear it click, These injectors might just be a quite... no idea.

I have tested the grey power wire for the injectors it has 12.8Volts.

earthing issue... I will check the earth on the microtech when I get home. I have the microtech plugged into my laptop and the microtech software works fine. I did an error check on the microtech and it returned nothing.

I have nfi what is going on. might just take the car to the dyno tuner and tell him to make it work.

[SSHatch]

Is the ECU designed to run with Low Impedance Injectors??

I have read in a number of user manuals now that many ECU's will not run like this and need a Ballast Resistor set up to operate correctly. Couldnt be bothered downloading the Microtech manual to see what it says, its probably wrong anyway hey Finny???

But hey, what would I know??

I normally play with big fat carby's on top of even bigger old skool engines...

[Finny]

Guys, its all running.

I reverted my changes on the fuel map back to the standard, rewired some the coil packs and the injectors. All new wire so it looks schmico.

I checked over all the wiring with a multimeter so I am not sure why this fixed it... I probably killed it when I was stuffing around with the ECU maps.

The microtech software gives me a headache just looking at it.

Any way with the stock rb25DET base tune its running some how with 865CC injectors...

Quite a shock actually.. it blows unburnt petrol smoke but it idles alight.. can't wait to get it dyno tuned.

First time I have heard the engine start in around 10 months, That reminds me I still have running-in oil in the motor as its only done 1500km. Will have to drain that out and put the HPR-5 in it.

Thanks for the help guys.

Also does any one here know how to change the fuel map on a Microtech. When I talked to the guy who will be dyno tuning it he was like dont bother trailering it here just change the scale of the fuel map down 40% and she will be ables just baby it all the way here. Looking at the software I have no idea how to change the scale of the fuel map.

I can see all of the data points but I would have to change every single one down by 40%... there is like 256 points or somefin and I dont want to screw up the base tune again.

edit:

Also SSHatch, I brought the injectors before I brought the ECU so I researched that quite a bit. Microtechs are made to run low impedance injectors being that they are mainly used on rotaries. I never found out if PowerFCs can run low impedance. Most stock ECUs hate low impedance though.

I found an old pic of my engine bay when I first brought the car, It's come a long way in ~18months.

That engine went to a metal recycling place BIG BANG!

And current photo, (engine bay needs tidy up and clean)

front bar is off so I can get it on a trailer.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Finny