Guilt-toy Now Running On E85 !

[discopotato03]

Looking good so far , out of curiosity what are you measuring EGT with .

Cheers A .

Also that TE digital readout looks good , I have one as well but not used yet .

[sh@un]

all very interesting stuff for turbo'd cars

reading the figures on the last page, it would seem that the $/km ratio comes out almost the same as (or a little worse than) normal petrol- so there'd be no savings to be had in trying to specifically tune and run N/A cars on this just to save some dollars?

re: the E85 giving lower peak, but higher average, cylinder pressures- the reason is because ethanol burns more slowly than petrol

[Adriano]

Can you compare your settings in the PFC in the cruise region from the E85 map (ultra lean) and the ULP map, should shed some light on the possible fuel economy.

[Guilt-Toy]

got some very interesting results

[Al]

Do share.................................please

[Guilt-Toy]

Okay... spent pretty much the whole day on the Dyno today.. a mate came up from sydney and we had a play with his GTR first.. then we chucked my car on and had a few goes at the IM240 emissions test.

I must say it was friggin hard to drive the bouncing ball on the line properly, the first time i totally botched it.. second time i got better and so on... I noticed on the analyse screen that the emissions were not even showing up.. Now I think its because the emissions are sooo damn low that its not registering on the scale (i like to think positive) or the software was not working properly.. I think it was working properly because I got to click on different parts of the test and see the emissions at that part of the test and the emissions was very very low once i finished tuning it properly.

I only have one tune for the emissions test, it took me a few goes to get it right and anything i ever did to tune made it worse so I just worked on the one program.

After a few tests i decided to do a power run, Firstly I have never got more then 303rwkw from the street legal tune i had.. Street legal for me is the oil catch can plumbed back into intake, the CAT converter is ON the car and the wastegate is plumbed back into the exaust with no more then 20psi of boost (lowest setting from the wastegate springs)

Was suprised, with 10.05 AFR all the way it bagged 320rwkw... I could not believe it... the power was up 20kw straight away. I leaned it off to 11.8AFR and plugged a few deg of timing into it and gave it another go.. Was very impressed with the results!

To give you a idea of the difference in power, i saved a old power run in the same dyno in street form and made a comparison print out. Remember the timing was only touched on the top end and there was PLENTY more tuning left into it to make it more responsive and come on boost quicker and make more power. I has only 15deg of timing in it and the knock from my KMON was only reading 30 knock compared to the 40 from the previous week on pump 98.

Remember this comparison is only a 10 minute e85 tune, I seriously did STUFF all to tuning the timing to see how much extra power i could squeeze outta it because today my mission was to tune for emissions, and i think 340rkw emissions legal tune is pretty damn good as it.. no point pushing it more... "today"

Sorry bout the bad e85 line, the damn Mainline dyno made the print out YELLOW and it was hard to read when scanned so i kinda fixed it up to make it readable.

So yeah my day was successfull and i have a emissions tune ready to go for wednesday! The car is driving sooo nice now it has NEVER driven that good EVER. I am pretty sure I will be sticking to e85 from now on and use it as much as I can because its sooo much better then 98 its just insane.

The BIGGEST thing i noticed about the fuel is how EASY it was to keep a perfect line when doing power runs, i swear i only spent 2 power runs and 2 goes to get the line that straight. I also really noticed it on cruise, just 2 press's on the + / - on datalogit made a STABLE difference and the AFR's were very stable.

I cannot stress on how good this fuel is, its just NUTS. Lets see how good it is on wednesday!

Anyway peoples! I spend shitloads of time and money and effort into these tests and posting up the results so tell me what you think ?!?

I would like to thank Wayne at hunter all wheel dyno who donated me soo much Dyno time to make this happen! The things we can do on that Dyno is insane!!! His details are on the power run sheet

Cheers.. Anthony

[Bond]

Those results are great.

You said that on your final power run the afr's were 11.8. Does that mean you are using the same amount of e85 as bp98?

[Guilt-Toy]

Looking good so far , out of curiosity what are you measuring EGT with .

Cheers A .

Also that TE digital readout looks good , I have one as well but not used yet .

Did you get the green one? its hard to read during the day. but at night its good.

I got a thermocouple EGT sensor made up from a company at coffs.. and i got Peter @ WB02 to setup my wide band so i can connect it directly to it, then i purchased a additional display (the round one) and got a configuration file, at the moment i am only getting a percentage of the max reading but it gives me an idea for tuning / changes. I have been too lazy to get it working properly, but last week i emailed techedge and they are working on writing me another configuration script. Will be good when its configured correctly.

Those results are great.

You said that on your final power run the afr's were 11.8. Does that mean you are using the same amount of e85 as bp98?

NO. the AFR reads 11.8 because the sensors are reading in Lambda... the wide band setups are converting it to AFR using the gasoline conversion which makes it look like its running normal fuel but its not. So its really running a fair bit more fuel, probly 7afr or less....

I could have changed it the ethanol on the dyno and tuned it to the correct AFR but there is no point.

[sh@un]

May not be something you can answer, but if the engine was tuned to make the same power on Ultimate and E85 (say, 300rwkW), what would be the comparative specific fuel consumption in L/hr?

[Guilt-Toy]

between 20% and 35% more fuel consumption using e85.

There is no way to tell what l/h you are using. Too many variables to take into account when making a call like that.

But if you want to know, Hunter All Wheel Dyno has the facility to hook up the fuel system to the dyno and we can read all that information for you

May not be something you can answer, but if the engine was tuned to make the same power on Ultimate and E85 (say, 300rwkW), what would be the comparative specific fuel consumption in L/hr?

[dougs]

that is pretty impressive guilt-toy.

[sh@un]

between 20% and 35% more fuel consumption using e85.

pretty much confirms what i was thinking

as was stated towards the start of the thread, E85 is a much cheaper option than buying performance fuels in drums to get big power numbers, but anything less than a 20-25% price difference between E85 and E10 would rule out using the higher percentage blend as a way of reducing running costs in non-performance cars

cheers

p.s- yeah, i know gas is a better option than anything for that sort of thing

[discopotato03]

At the moment there probably isn't enough E85 around for the price to be indexed to ULP .

In one of the links I posted it mentions that in some parts of North America there are govt bonuses being paid to servos who gear up tanks/pumps for E85 though its still a large capital outlay for each site .

Going back a bit I was struggling to find standards info for handling E85 but I did post a link to some American info .

Gary went looking for an MSTS and I don't think he found one .

Anyhow great results and thanks for sharing .

A .

Found this .

Edited October 11, 2008 by discopotato03

[Al]

Nice result!

I would have to do a little research on E85, in all honesty i have not heard about it in Melbourne.

So you think it will be easier to pass the emissions test using E85?

[Cubes]

Nice work Guilt-toy.

Al... You looking for a little more power?

[W0rp3D]

Is there any where that lists where you can get E85, i even looked at the united web site and they dont even list that they have it at roselle.

[Al]

Nice work Guilt-toy.

Al... You looking for a little more power?

Not really concerned about power, more engineers cert and EPA cert., but more power is always welcomed

[Kinks]

Great read Tony, and congrats on the power/emissions results. Keep us posted with progress

[Guilt-Toy]

Is there any where that lists where you can get E85, i even looked at the united web site and they dont even list that they have it at roselle.

if you look earlier in the thread, disco put up some web sites.. one of them is where it is available.

Great read Tony, and congrats on the power/emissions results. Keep us posted with progress

Cheers mate, i aint going to be singing and dancing till the emissions test is passed, the more i think about it the more i think it might fail. I failed the first time i went last time too but at least i will get the print out and know whats going on to change it for the next test.

btw i hate tony

[Swiper the Fox]

btw i hate tony

lol...as soon as i read that he called you 'Tony' i thought...he's not gonna like that...hehe