Guilt-toy Now Running On E85 !

[el capitan]

I know its a little of topic, but i run a 35r, with standard radiator and fan, highway temps rarely go over 79degrees, and after a thrash about i have only ever seen the power fc read 83. It use to run about 5 degrees hotter until i replaced the dirty coolent (had like 20year old sludge in the over flow tank too) with nulon concentrate 50/50 mix

[Guilt-Toy]

back to e85 again

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

anyone found e85 in vic yet? apart form the united in hoppers crossing?

[T04GTR]

annas car has a jjr radiator. sits on 90 with the aircon on idling.. once your rolling its 80-85deg. i was suprised as my 32 used to jump 15 degrees with the ac on....

[NYTSKY]

back to e85 again

I will be on Thursday

[Swiper the Fox]

I will be on Thursday

tomm. for me

[whatsisname]

Seeing how E85 burns colder, would that mean it would be a good idea to change back to '6' heat range plugs?

My tuner tells me anything over 1 bar on 98, run '7' heat range.

My '33 is now up and running on E85 (more info'/dyno sheets to come shortly) and I am still using NGK 7's iridium plugs - no issues whatsoever. Mid winter night time temps might uncover fouling issues, but I doubt it.

[180or200]

My '33 is now up and running on E85 (more info'/dyno sheets to come shortly) and I am still using NGK 7's iridium plugs - no issues whatsoever. Mid winter night time temps might uncover fouling issues, but I doubt it.

Hey Matt

dont keep us waiting whats the story?

I had no issue's last winter with fouling plugs and that was running 8's, the only thing I do when it gets cold is add fuel to the cranking just to help it fire!

Edited February 14, 2009 by 180or200

[whatsisname]

As I wrote above, my '33 is finally up and running on E85.

I'll cover off on what I think are the main points first:

Despite running the 'humble' Microtech LT12, it starts first go each and every time and idles away nicely at a slightly high ~980-1060rpm - this is with mild HKS cams and 910cc Siemens injectors. A/C idle up is also no problems.

My small Turbonetics 0.63 Stage 3 housing is well and truely at the limit, however, I am happy enough with the trade off in response vs. peak power. I would have prefered another 15-20rwkw peak power, but I downsized from the Stage 5 housing due to less than acceptable response - Stage 5 would support ~350-370rwkw but require 5000rpm before making decent power.

The increase in off boost torque is noticeable - picked this up by seat of the pants immediately! 7' extra timing is the key here.

Peak power has increased by a mild 25rwkw, mid range by ~40-45rwkw. Power and torque is up across the entire rev' range etc. I am seeing 15psi @ 3300rpm, 20psi @ 4200rpm and peak boost at 4600rpm. Spikes to just over 24psi before dropping back to just over 22psi. Also holds a nice spread of peak torque, or near enough to peak torque, for ~1000-1500rpm in the mid range.

I've stocked up with 5 x 20L jerry cans of E85 - seems to be in short supply in Adelaide at times, so figured I'd keep a small stockpile. It should maintain a 'shelf life' for at least 8wks if stored correctly.

It was also decided to scrap the idea of back-to-back testing Martini 110 vs E85, time was the main factor here. Apologies to anyone that was keen to see the results.

Dyno sheets attached*

*The savage flucuations in the before dyno runs were due to a combination of things - Mickey Thompson ET Street Radials don't like knurled rollers!

[180or200]

good stuff matt

does the microtech tell you how much injector your useing?

also what afr did you tune it to? I like to keep between .80 and .85 at full power!

[MBS206]

you mean a stock nissan one? i do have a spare actually.. and as for the earth, i already have a earth strap on it.. put that on a couple of weeks after i got the alloy radiator...

I am getting one of those swirl pots, to go on the cooling system. when i turn the car off i can hear bubbling in my coolant system.. just noticed it.. maybe the top mount turbo is causing air in the line and causing the extra heat?

is it bad to run the engine at 100deg? or 97?

Yeah, basically a stock GOOD Nissan one...

As for bubbling, you have air getting in somewhere...

This is NOT good...

I'd be looking at your heater core for the cabin, radiator cap, and then looking for BHG signs...

PS: Pressure test will not show up the signs of a BHG... Mine went in 3 spots, from water gallery to cylinder, still held full pressure in the radiator for 5 minutes!

Also check your over flow bottle... Make sure it's full...

Something is definitely a miss, and I'd be getting nervous driving with 100degree water temps.

You're running a forward facing plenum aren't you? So you no longer have the bleed point on the plenum...

Also, Would it be possible for you to send me a copy of your ignition timing map for Petrol with RPM VS Boost.

I want to tune my car possibly this week (If I can get the oil fitting I need) but am a bit onsure on ignition timing, and since I'm not running a PFC, I can't just "keep knock below 40" as my knock values are TOTALLY different ot that of a PFC...

And when you tune for E85, without recalibrating your O2 sensor for the AFR of ethanol, do you just tune for the same AFRs etc. (14.7 as stoich, less then 12 for on boost power etc)

Also, what AFR are you aiming for on petrol, when just cruising on the freeway?

[NYTSKY]

As I wrote above, my '33 is finally up and running on E85.

I'll cover off on what I think are the main points first:

Despite running the 'humble' Microtech LT12, it starts first go each and every time and idles away nicely at a slightly high ~980-1060rpm - this is with mild HKS cams and 910cc Siemens injectors. A/C idle up is also no problems.

My small Turbonetics 0.63 Stage 3 housing is well and truely at the limit, however, I am happy enough with the trade off in response vs. peak power. I would have prefered another 15-20rwkw peak power, but I downsized from the Stage 5 housing due to less than acceptable response - Stage 5 would support ~350-370rwkw but require 5000rpm before making decent power.

The increase in off boost torque is noticeable - picked this up by seat of the pants immediately! 7' extra timing is the key here.

Peak power has increased by a mild 25rwkw, mid range by ~40-45rwkw. Power and torque is up across the entire rev' range etc. I am seeing 15psi @ 3300rpm, 20psi @ 4200rpm and peak boost at 4600rpm. Spikes to just over 24psi before dropping back to just over 22psi. Also holds a nice spread of peak torque, or near enough to peak torque, for ~1000-1500rpm in the mid range.

I've stocked up with 5 x 20L jerry cans of E85 - seems to be in short supply in Adelaide at times, so figured I'd keep a small stockpile. It should maintain a 'shelf life' for at least 8wks if stored correctly.

It was also decided to scrap the idea of back-to-back testing Martini 110 vs E85, time was the main factor here. Apologies to anyone that was keen to see the results.

Dyno sheets attached*

*The savage flucuations in the before dyno runs were due to a combination of things - Mickey Thompson ET Street Radials don't like knurled rollers!

Awesome stuff!

Anything over 300rwkw with a .63 housing is still impressive in my books.

Im starting to think my engine might actually make mid 300rwkw on this stuff.

What would be the limit power wise without an external fuel pump setup?

[(OO)Firty Free(OO)]

As I wrote above, my '33 is finally up and running on E85.

I'll cover off on what I think are the main points first:

Despite running the 'humble' Microtech LT12, it starts first go each and every time and idles away nicely at a slightly high ~980-1060rpm - this is with mild HKS cams and 910cc Siemens injectors. A/C idle up is also no problems.

My small Turbonetics 0.63 Stage 3 housing is well and truely at the limit, however, I am happy enough with the trade off in response vs. peak power. I would have prefered another 15-20rwkw peak power, but I downsized from the Stage 5 housing due to less than acceptable response - Stage 5 would support ~350-370rwkw but require 5000rpm before making decent power.

The increase in off boost torque is noticeable - picked this up by seat of the pants immediately! 7' extra timing is the key here.

Peak power has increased by a mild 25rwkw, mid range by ~40-45rwkw. Power and torque is up across the entire rev' range etc. I am seeing 15psi @ 3300rpm, 20psi @ 4200rpm and peak boost at 4600rpm. Spikes to just over 24psi before dropping back to just over 22psi. Also holds a nice spread of peak torque, or near enough to peak torque, for ~1000-1500rpm in the mid range.

I've stocked up with 5 x 20L jerry cans of E85 - seems to be in short supply in Adelaide at times, so figured I'd keep a small stockpile. It should maintain a 'shelf life' for at least 8wks if stored correctly.

It was also decided to scrap the idea of back-to-back testing Martini 110 vs E85, time was the main factor here. Apologies to anyone that was keen to see the results.

Dyno sheets attached*

*The savage flucuations in the before dyno runs were due to a combination of things - Mickey Thompson ET Street Radials don't like knurled rollers!

Well done Matt, the combo making awsome power and building boost nice and quick. What are your thoughts on the larger turbonetics housing now you can wind in more timing?

Bring to graham wests next month and run it up, be interesting to see the difference in our cars with similar sized rear housings.

[Swiper the Fox]

Awesome stuff!

Anything over 300rwkw with a .63 housing is still impressive in my books.

Im starting to think my engine might actually make mid 300rwkw on this stuff.

What would be the limit power wise without an external fuel pump setup?

I told you 350 and you scoffed...its not looking so hard now is it?

[whatsisname]

Thanks for the comments guys.

Adrian, yep pretty much. The Microtech displays duty cycle in milliseconds. To be honest I can't actually recall what DC figures we were seeing, certainly less than Max Duty (the handset flashes MD if you run out of injector) I'll get back to you next time I go for a drive and will drag up the peak figures from the data logger.

Very similiar territory with the A/FR: 0.80

Dave, I am running a single internal Bosch '044 pump. I'd say the limit is well over 330rwkw. I recall reading a Bosch '044 will support ~350rwkw on E85 - not sure what base fuel pressure this was at.

Lee, I'm still reluctant to switch back to the larger Stage 5 Turbonetics housing - trading less response for another 30rwkw top end.... hmmm it's a hard one.

I still remember driving the car with the Stage 5 housing last year and hating the docile mid range. I just don't think E85 could improve it enough to give me what I want.

Sounds like a good plan. Hopefully I'm free that weekend.

I just wish we had a functional drag strip in Adelaide. I would love to see where I'm at vs. the old numbers in my sig' - I ran those numbers with ~260rwkw @ 420Nm and a very good spread of mid range torque.

[180or200]

Thanks for the comments guys.

Adrian, yep pretty much. The Microtech displays duty cycle in milliseconds. To be honest I can't actually recall what DC figures we were seeing, certainly less than Max Duty (the handset flashes MD if you run out of injector) I'll get back to you next time I go for a drive and will drag up the peak figures from the data logger.

Very similiar territory with the A/FR: 0.80

Dave, I am running a single internal Bosch '044 pump. I'd say the limit is well over 330rwkw. I recall reading a Bosch '044 will support ~350rwkw on E85 - not sure what base fuel pressure this was at.

Lee, I'm still reluctant to switch back to the larger Stage 5 Turbonetics housing - trading less response for another 30rwkw top end.... hmmm it's a hard one.

I still remember driving the car with the Stage 5 housing last year and hating the docile mid range. I just don't think E85 could improve it enough to give me what I want.

Sounds like a good plan. Hopefully I'm free that weekend.

I just wish we had a functional drag strip in Adelaide. I would love to see where I'm at vs. the old numbers in my sig' - I ran those numbers with ~260rwkw @ 420Nm and a very good spread of mid range torque.

Matt

I just swtiched over to a internal 044 from a tomei pump and have clawed back about 20% duty on my 740's! hitting 80% now.

I have a .73 Avo housing on my gt3076 and that felt a little laggy on 98 would just drop into lag in second, once tuned to e85 it disapeared!

how much timeing did you add, i add about 8-10 degrees on the ramp and about 4-5 at full power, you would gain a little power bringing the afr back to .85, a local well known tuner who's done alot of testing told me you dont lose torque until you get leaner than .90, I'll be at graham west with Lee so will look out for you!

[whatsisname]

Just goes to show how big an overkill my 910's are! At least I'll never have to upgrade them again.

I'd certainly expect an improvement in reponse tuning for E85 and using the Stage 5 housing. How much of a difference there would be between the Stage 3 and 5 (power vs. response) I really don't know. If only it was a 5min' job to swap them over... again. Plus my Stage 5 housing is internal vs. the external Stage 3.

I'd really like to see how the Stage 3 wheel + Stage 5 housing combo' would go. Then again, as it's been over 2 years since I started this turbo set-up, I think I'll just enjoy it for now and concentrate on other areas of the car for a while - more interior trim work commencing 20th Feb

Shaun at Boostworx did the current tune. He added 7' on the ramp and 5' up top. Further additional timing up top didn't increase peak power (0.Xrwkw only) extra boost only added 2-3rwkw. Slightly leaner up top might liberate a few more kw - 330rwkw maybe.

Sounds good mate.

[Guilt-Toy]

Matt

I just swtiched over to a internal 044 from a tomei pump and have clawed back about 20% duty on my 740's! hitting 80% now.

I have a .73 Avo housing on my gt3076 and that felt a little laggy on 98 would just drop into lag in second, once tuned to e85 it disapeared!

how much timeing did you add, i add about 8-10 degrees on the ramp and about 4-5 at full power, you would gain a little power bringing the afr back to .85, a local well known tuner who's done alot of testing told me you dont lose torque until you get leaner than .90, I'll be at graham west with Lee so will look out for you!

Has this tuner tuned anything making 400rwkw+ on e85? if so what lambda ? i was thinking of tuning it on .80's just to be safe but would be interested in someone else's opinion. .85's would be good for 300ish rwkw.. but 400 450rwkw ?? .80 ?

[180or200]

I rang the guy asked that very question and his reply was it really depends on the engine, and is too hard to give a general rule, his example was nissan use to run there race engines around lambda at 700 odd hp just to stretch fuel stops! he added .85 is good ballpark but every setup is different.

from my experience you can run it .75 and stills pulls hard so if safety margin and cooler charge is what your after .80 is ok.

when my tomei pump died it was leaning out to lambda and was only slightly down on torque, didnt knock, glad i put wideband in to check it!!

[Guilt-Toy]

so nissan ran race forced induction at 1.00 ??? 14.7afr?? you serious? 700hp? lol

I would probly be running mine at .80's id say.. i wont lose much power from .85 anyway.. might test and see during tuning and also listen to the engine for any pinging...