Guilt-toy Now Running On E85 !

[NYTSKY]

One thing ive noticed is condensation in my oil catch can and lines. I assume this only happens during warm up and dries out as the engine get hotter.

So far i have about 2 inches of water in my catch can, with about 5mm of oil sitting on top. Its a pretty good indicator to see how much the engine breathes (not much )

Ill be pulling the can out in the next service to have a look see.

Also a friend of mine has just turned key on a big RB 2530 engine (on E85) The exhaust is all new too and we can see very light surface rust inside the tip. No carbon though

[SLAPS]

Definitely shows how much cleaner the E85 burns.

Oil restrictors are out (shoving 2 x 1.2mm's in) and then on with the hks manifold and gt35. Can't wait. But I will miss the awesome response of the GT30.

[DRIFTER]

has anyone noticed there oil getting milky? mine is, i've done comp tests, leak down tests, radiator pressure tests, checked with bore scope, not loosing any coolant, no oil in the coolant, no oil in the catch can. i'm starting think that fuel may have got into the oil and because e85 absorbs moisture and my car sits for months at a time (out in the weather during the day) and gets started and driven in and out of the workshop every day, that this could be causing my milky oil. any ideas?

[SLAPS]

my car sits for months at a time (out in the weather during the day) and gets started and driven in and out of the workshop every day, that this could be causing my milky oil. any ideas?

You will always get a little moisture in the oil when the car sits around and or is driven really short trips.

Short trips the oil doesn't get up to temp and evap the water off.

[NYTSKY]

Last oil change my oil was a little milky also. The oil was in the engine for 6000kms

Ill be changing every 3000kms from now on.

Its a good idea (if able) to keep the car indoors, this will, i think lessen the chance of moisture being absorbed.

[TiTAN]

was it all the water in the catch can that caused the spillage on saturday dave?

[PJ.]

Fresh Royal Purple Racing 41 in mine every 1500-2000km's religiously!!

[Swiper the Fox]

has anyone noticed there oil getting milky? mine is, i've done comp tests, leak down tests, radiator pressure tests, checked with bore scope, not loosing any coolant, no oil in the coolant, no oil in the catch can. i'm starting think that fuel may have got into the oil and because e85 absorbs moisture and my car sits for months at a time (out in the weather during the day) and gets started and driven in and out of the workshop every day, that this could be causing my milky oil. any ideas?

its the alcohol in the fuel making the oil go off.

methanol drag cars have the same issue...often changing the oil during a meet.

[discopotato03]

A friend of mine is a mechanic at a place in Sydney that does competition quad bikes of all things and they have some weird and wonderful engine set ups ie bored/stroked/ported/turbocharged/methanol burning .

Steve reckons that the zillion dollar Royal Purple oils are specifically made for alcohol burning engines . I'm not sure whats different in an oils make up to cope with alcohol but it is different .

I don't know which RP oil it is but for ULP burning engines they use Mobil 1 Racing 4T 15W50 bike oil .

Cheers A .

BTW Steve is not a person who likes E85 because he thinks high ethanol content fuel has too many water absorption problems and they literally flow on to become fuel system problems . In his opinion much more than 20-25% ethanol creates more problems than its worth being bothered with in a daily driven street car .

I would really like to see some kind of water separation system developed that fitted in line somewhere in the cars fuel system .

A .

[NYTSKY]

was it all the water in the catch can that caused the spillage on saturday dave?

Yeh that and too much rev limiter

I need to redesign my catch can setup, the Greddy can is useless.

[SS8_Gohan]

oh... so i shouldn't really be running E85 full time on my 34? it's my daily, but only say 3 times a week.

and i take it i need to change oil more regularly as well then?

[NYTSKY]

Yes change your oil atleast every 3000km. and with a good oil.

[SS8_Gohan]

thanks

i get all my oil from www.performancelub.com and currently running Royal Purple 5w30, may stick with it if it's more ethanol friendly

[BADR33]

we don't have e85 on the pump over here. the best we have is mobil with like 5% ethenol.

we have done some dyno testing over here in nz on our dynapack hub dyno.

we had a standard internaled s13 sr20det, with a hks gt-rs turbo, link g4 ecu with boost control and airtemp, steam pipe manifold, small front mount, rx7 2ndary 800cc injectors.

on 98 pump gas it made 220kw on 20psi at the rear hubs.

on our custom e30 blend. (3ltrs pure ethenol to every 7ltrs of 95 pump gas) it made 260kw on standard cams and intake manifold on 20psi with no knock as what guilt toy found. it took an extra 7degs timing on 20psi over the whole rev range, reduced over heating issues when drifting also. managed to hold power and torque up untill redline, rather then the usual sr20 power and torque fall off.

we have also tested e20 and had very similar results.

with my car im going to tune it for 98pump gas on 19-20psi. as my ecu has the ability to have switchable fuel and boost maps i will then have a swtichable fuel map for a e20 or e30mix. although my injectors (v5 sti 440cc) won't be big enough so i will either decap them to 800s or decap some standard 370cc ones to get 650cc

before i can get that far i need a new clutch as mine will start slipping im guessing when i up the boost and then change the fuel, could be looking at a 60kw gain over my 16psi 277kw.

we are also building a sr20de+t with standard compression ration of 10.4:1 running 20psi and ethenol fuel, specs of the engine are a bit shady at the mo, weather its got forgded DE pistons or run standard bottom end is undecided. i won't have a result for a few months im guessing as the engine has just been stripped ready for the rebuild.

[DRIFTER]

oh... so i shouldn't really be running E85 full time on my 34? it's my daily, but only say 3 times a week.

and i take it i need to change oil more regularly as well then?

as long as it gets driven fairly regularly and for more than ten minutes you should be ok. the oil gets a chance to warm up and evaporate all the water out of it. if you keep an eye on the oil it should be able to do 5000km, but if you start to see milky oil you might want to change it sooner.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

driving 300km a week i didn't have milky oil after 5000

[SS8_Gohan]

i think the theory is that if the trips are long enough, then yes, you'll be ok as the water gets evaporated - but still need to change oil more regularly

[discopotato03]

BADR33 that's very interesting about the home brewed E20-E30 mixes . I'd be interested to know where the sweet spot is with ethanol ULP blends because I think with less than extreme apps ratios of less than 85% ethanol could change the playing field - as in just enough ethanol to get the job done and no more .

I'm also very interested in your idea of switching mapping with your Link (G4 Storm ?) because that's what I'd like to do with my ancient Subaru RX Turbo L Series . I'm looking at Storm's and V44's ATM , I'd like to be able to switch between 95ULP and some form of ethanol blend and I'm looking at 370cc FJ20ET injectors or modified to hose tail (barbed) RX7 injectors ie 440's or 550's .

My R33 can sit for a week or two at a time and I wouldn't like E85 lying around for that long .

Lets know how you go , cheers Adrian .

[BADR33]

BADR33 that's very interesting about the home brewed E20-E30 mixes . I'd be interested to know where the sweet spot is with ethanol ULP blends because I think with less than extreme apps ratios of less than 85% ethanol could change the playing field - as in just enough ethanol to get the job done and no more .

I'm also very interested in your idea of switching mapping with your Link (G4 Storm ?) because that's what I'd like to do with my ancient Subaru RX Turbo L Series . I'm looking at Storm's and V44's ATM , I'd like to be able to switch between 95ULP and some form of ethanol blend and I'm looking at 370cc FJ20ET injectors or modified to hose tail (barbed) RX7 injectors ie 440's or 550's .

My R33 can sit for a week or two at a time and I wouldn't like E85 lying around for that long .

Lets know how you go , cheers Adrian .

the lower % mix means the car runs a little nicer when its first cold, as you may find with your e85 the car is a little harder to start on very cold mornings.

20% removed all knock from the first sr20det we tund on it.

we have a supplier in nz who we buy pure ethenol fuel off, then we just measure it and pour it in. we can buy premix, but you get better value for money out of pure ethenol.

i have a gtslink g4 ecu (same as a g4 storm but a plug in for twin cam skylines and has 6x injector drives)

the g4 link has an amazing amount of features, you can run switchable fuel maps and also switchable boost maps.

if you run with the boost control with the link g4, its amazing how awesome the boost control is. you control the soliniod like an injector as such. you can make it so no pressure gets to the wastegate actuator to bring boost on faster. and you can free boost the turbo to hold the boost up top if you need too.

there is also allowance for air temp sensor ajustments so you run the same boost all the time no matter what the outside air temp is. and tps ajustment so you can make full boost on 20% throttle if you wanted.

there so much more advanced then power fc, no afm, and just a huge range of features, more then what most people will ever need.

over here there considerd to be very simlar to a motec etc, just $1200+ cheeper

i would suggest you try find some 550s or similar just to allow for the extra fuel required by ethenol to get the same af ratio as 95, the link will idle your car fine with that.

we get sr20det idling normal with modifyed 370cc to 650cc with a link g4, power fc is a little harder from what i have heard.

the main part of getting the full result is your tuner in the end, the more familar they are with the software the better they will understand and the faster they will finish the job.

over here its $800-$1000 for a full pump gas dyno tune with switchable boost maps.

i will try get some dyno sheets from the sr20det we did the 30% tuning on with before and after.

i don't remeber if i said this before. the supplier of our ethenol has done a fair amount of research on it, and e30(30% ethenol 70% shell 95) has approx 105 octaine.

[discopotato03]

Yes 20% sounds a bit more manageable than 85% and it wouldn't be that hard to blend using suitable amounts of E85 here to get an 80/20 split .

It would also mean injector size would not need to be as big as an E85 burner would need .

I gather you "turn" side feeds from 370 to 650 by removing the 4 hole wafer to expose the single pintle valve .

A feller here from the classic SAu side is setting up to race a DR30 and is prepared to swap me some RX7 turbo injectors , I think 460 high impedance and 550 low impedance 11mm O ring injectors , for my old DR front struts brakes etc .

The 460's would be a bonus because they are high impedance which is what suits the Vipec V44 and Link G4 Storm . I'm told you have to buy and wire in the separate peak and hold injector box to run that type of injector .

Anyway I doubt this engine would like much over 200 Hp on a daily basis and 460's could probably do that even with E85 .

I just need to have a few shallow barbs machined into the top sections of these O ring injectors to reliably clamp a high pressure EFI rated hose to .

Actually just on ULP I've been doing a bit of digging on the burning characteristics of the various octane types and I think it's a little known fact that the lower octane ULP is better than the higher octane stuff at everything except suppressing detonation . It could actually be possible to get a better brew blending ethanol with more mundane 91 or 95 ULP so long as you get enough octane to stop the detonation .

It was explained to me that the additives used to make say 98 ULP detonation resistant makes it harder to spark ignite than say 91 ULP and it tends to make it burn slower as well . The person said the low octane stuff burns at a faster rate and slightly higher temperature so from a cylinder pressure perspective alls good - until it detonates .

It would be REAL interesting to see how much extra ethanol it would take to stop 91 ULP from detonating under high loads or whatever .

The price alone of 91 ULP with lets say 25 or 30% ethanol content could be quite friendly . I'm only guessing that 5-10% extra ethanol over the 98 ULP/E20 would give the same detonation resistance but there would be an overall octane equivalency point somewhere .

For the fist time in a lot of years I put what I though was poverty pac fuel (91 ULP) in my daily just to see what would happen , it hasn't pinged yet so while its in a quite soft state of tune and the engine fresh higher octane fuel won't make it run better and maybe slightly worse than it could . Such is life .

Lets know what you think and how things go , cheers Adrian .