Guilt-toy Now Running On E85 !

[Guilt-Toy]

thanks for the update mate

[Fishpaste~]

just a quick update on the E85 situation (esp for SA people), i've heard...

"The E85 fuel supplier that did go belly up last week (people that supply enffue?) I heard today should be back on deck again, so the next week or 2 will tell"

Edited March 23, 2009 by Fishpaste~

[(OO)Firty Free(OO)]

Thanks for the update Fishpaste, i actually went to Enffue Mawson Lakes today and the people there are still telling me it will be available in the future......

For those interested see the link below from the dyno day a couple of weeks ago.

My car is the first red 33 (pulled a wheelspinning 309rwkw first run went on to spin up 356) and Matts (whatsisname) is the second darker maroon coloured 33. Also note the Black 32 which is chad (Dstroy) off this forum.

Also worth mentioning was the top 3 spots were filled by SAU members running E85

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/kfsRu...Day%2014-03-09/

[TiTAN]

the engine bay with the "trust" coil cover looks very nice.

[whatsisname]

No worries, GT.

Thanks for the update Lee. Will reply to PM tomorrow mate.

TiTAN, thanks mate.

[Guilt-Toy]

the engine bay with the "trust" coil cover looks very nice.

[PLMS]

Greetings Skyline ppls,

I've just been searching around for other people's experiences with E85 and I ended up here. Great to see other people using this wonder-fuel.

Just thought I'd add my 2c worth. I've now tuned a few cars on E85 and I'm absolutely loving it. So I hope supply continues. I've been trying to get as many people onto it as possible - idea being that the larger the demand the more likely we'll see it a little more commonly at the servos.

I'm SA based and do my tuning at Morpowa out Tea Tree Gully way. I tune factory ECU's using NIStune. Almost exclusively SR's but occasionally I stray and do some RB's. Much of the work contributes to NIStune system development. Sometimes I do a bit of a write-up and stick it on my website.

Most of the E85 tunes I've done have netted around 20% peak power gain and have required around 30% more fuel. The bit that I like is that you seem to be able to get more power from a certain size turbo than should theoretically be possible. I did an SR with a baby GT2510 on it. On 98 it was all over at around 200rwkw. We then tuned for E10 and it went to 217 and then to E85 and got 230. That turbo really shouldn't be making that sort of power.

http://www.plmsdevelopments.com/customers/chris_ceffy.shtml

Once you're running E85 you can push things to the limit without fear of knock. I've done some experiments and the engines will take a phenomenal amount of timing with no sign of knock. It's almost spoooky! I just had to stop once we reached 35 degrees at full load. It's not like it was making any more power so I backed the timing off to more sane levels. But the beauty of this is that you can use a little turbo and keep your snappy boost response - and still have a decent peak power figure. Normally you'd need to be careful not to push too hard up top with a small turbo or inlet air temps increase and knock will come to git ya. With E85 this isn't a problem.

One of my mates has a 180SX that we've been playing with for years now. It's running a 2871 with a 0.64 housing. He's kept to 0.64 in the interests of boost response and we'd kinda plateaued (spelling?) at around 230rwkw. Didn't matter what we did the poor thing just wasn't gonna give much more in that configuration. Then one day Paul turned up with a couple jerry cans of E85 and wanted to have a go. First dyno pull gave 264 and after a bit of a tweak we got 274. There's just no way that turbo should make that power. Especially on a well worn red-top SR! Full story here:

http://www.plmsdevelopments.com/customers/paul_180sx.shtml

I've found E85 to be extremely flexible to tune with. AFR's and timing figures are nowhere near as critical as with 98. I usually aim for 0.84 lambda. I've run down to 0.7 and up to 0.9 and the power differences were not huge. Going from 0.84 to 0.90 gave about 3rwkw difference. Not that I'd wanna run 0.90 all the time!

But it's not all good. As most E85 punters have now found out - you need to watch your fuel system after you change over. It effectively takes all the rubbish and dissolves it into the fuel. I've only seen one pump failure but it's almost mandatory to do at least one filter change. It's almost worth having a fuel pressure gauge or running a permanent install WB AFR meter.

I did another 2x E85 tunes last week (both SR's in Datto 1600's) so word is starting to get around!

I don't know about E85 being an eco-friendly planet saver. I reckon they should re-think their marketing strategy and promote it as the full-on performance fuel that it really is! Go E85!!!!

Pete L

[DRIFTER]

cool first post!

[whatsisname]

Thanks, GT.

Pete, welcome to the forum mate. Excellent first post and well done on promoting E85 too - the more people start to embrace this fuel the more the demand and the greater chance we have of seeing it well established around the state and eventually the entire country.

[whatsisname]

I'll throw this one out to all the other E85 converts that have been following this thread since GT started the ball rolling; Has anyone done any back-to-back testing/dyno runs or seen any conclusive results between ‘normal’ E85 and the 98RON blends?

I have been using the local ENFFUE E85 – which I’m lead to believe is E85/91RON – and just recently I stocked up with a batch of E85/98RON. I’ve yet to try it out and am curious to know if it has the potential to provide further gains on an already optimised E85 tune?

[PLMS]

Thanks guys.

The cars I've been doing have also been sourcing their E85 from ENFFUE - and they've been making the numbers. 20% gain over 98 every time.

Interestingly those 2 Dattos I did last week were both down on power compared to other tunes. At this stage I'm putting them in the "inconclusive" pile because they both suffered severe traction issues. I assumed this was all to do with the flappy IRS used on these cars. We ended up with the rear of the dyno bay sparayed in rubber - I had to sweep it out before we left! Neither were using sticky track rubber but both cars are track rats and were set up with a lot of -ve camber on the rear. So the harder you strap them the worse it gets.

Anyway, what I was getting at is both of these cars filled up with E85 from the Skorpos (spelling?) servo down south. Not ENFFUE. Hmmmmm.

I thought ALL E85 was around 105 RON by default - simply because ethanol is higher octane than normal petrol?

PL

[whatsisname]

Pete, I should have been a bit clearer when I wrote E85/91RON.

E85/91 = 85% ethanol + 15% 91RON petrol

E85/98 = 85% ethanol + 15% 98RON petrol

How much of a difference is there between the two - in terms of total RON etc. - I couldn't say. I would have expected some difference.

Skorpos? Never heard of this servo'.

[PLMS]

At the risk of becoming a posting whore so early in my career - check out what the good ol' boys are doing with E85 and *high* compression in their big block hemis. Fun read:

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showfl...part=1&vc=1

They also mention a concern about E85 consistency. This worries me a bit too. It's no use if you tune for a certain brew and then next tank it's something different...

PL

[PLMS]

Oh, I've never seen it expressed as E85/91 or E85/98 - I've always just assumed it was 85% Ethanol and 15% "filler".

Skorpos owns that big place down south. I think the owner's name is Nick Skorpos. It used to be famous for the number of pumps it had. I'm from out NE burbs so I've never even been there - I'm sure the boys from down south will know it.

PL

[Guilt-Toy]

At the risk of becoming a posting whore so early in my career - check out what the good ol' boys are doing with E85 and *high* compression in their big block hemis. Fun read:

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showfl...part=1&vc=1

They also mention a concern about E85 consistency. This worries me a bit too. It's no use if you tune for a certain brew and then next tank it's something different...

PL

Hey Mate

Welcome to SAU, don't worry about becoming a post whore in my thread, it was a good read and good to hear from you! i will be checking out those url's now

Datto's rear setup's are shocking the way they squat because then they only get 5cm's of rubber gripping on the road the rest is up in the air!, you might want to ask them to get really hard shocks and hard spring rates to fix this up otherwise you will never get traction on the street or dyno.

I have 740cc injectors and i ran out of injectors at about 350rwkw !! I need to upgrade the injectors before i push more power out of E85 OR i might drop back down to my spare smaller turbo GT3040 and run e85 to bring the power back up a bit so i got power and response.

I have also tuned a few Nistunes - Great product!

Keep up the good work and please come back with more updates!

[PLMS]

Running E85 and a slightly smaller turbo certainly seems like a good recipe if you care about boost response - seeing you can safely push smaller turbos that bit harder on E85. Depends how much that peak HP figure means to you I guess!

FWIW the 274rwkw SR I did was running 740's and they went to 92% duty at 7100rpm. Running std fuel pressure. That duty was measured via the consult port rather than at the actual injector so the reading will be a bit high. So still some injector headroom there.

Looks like I screwed up that big block link - I'll try again. It's great to read about how other people go about making power - and to read their first hand experiences with E85. I can't help but be in awe of those monster 500ci+ mills they play with over there. Sure, for the capacity they don't make much power. But imagine what they sound like!!!

Good ol boys

Simon (Morpowa) showed me an add in one of the motorsport mags last night for E85. They sell it in 200l drums and specify that it's 85% ethanol + 15% BP Ultimate. So there's the E85/98 you spoke of.

Elf Race Fuels E85

More E85 ramblings later...

PL

[dano4127]

Running E85 and a slightly smaller turbo certainly seems like a good recipe if you care about boost response - seeing you can safely push smaller turbos that bit harder on E85. Depends how much that peak HP figure means to you I guess!

FWIW the 274rwkw SR I did was running 740's and they went to 92% duty at 7100rpm. Running std fuel pressure. That duty was measured via the consult port rather than at the actual injector so the reading will be a bit high. So still some injector headroom there.

Looks like I screwed up that big block link - I'll try again. It's great to read about how other people go about making power - and to read their first hand experiences with E85. I can't help but be in awe of those monster 500ci+ mills they play with over there. Sure, for the capacity they don't make much power. But imagine what they sound like!!!

Good ol boys

Simon (Morpowa) showed me an add in one of the motorsport mags last night for E85. They sell it in 200l drums and specify that it's 85% ethanol + 15% BP Ultimate. So there's the E85/98 you spoke of.

Elf Race Fuels E85

More E85 ramblings later...

PL

Welcome to SAU mate, great first post!

Any idea what elf are charging for the 200L drums?

[Guilt-Toy]

wow 30 pages !

[dano4127]

wow 30 pages !

40ppp n00b

[PLMS]

I'm guessing it's gonna be quite a bit more per litre than what you'll get it for at the pump. But at least you'll know what you're getting. Plus you're more in control of your fuel - E85 is commonly known to have a real affinity for water. If you've got it in a sealed drum then hopefully you could minimise this.

I'm thinking that the drums would be great for track cars (assuming the price isn't silly). You'd have a consistent fuel instead of "oh, I got it from a different servo and it just doesn't seem right". And you wouldn't get caught out if there are supply issues. There was a recent drift event here and when the guys went to fill up they were told that the servo was out of E85. Kinda ruins your day.

But for road cars it would be a right pain. Anyone who has ever man-handled a full 200l drum will know that it's no easy task. I guess you could get the 20l drums but it hardly seems worth it. Not to mention the risks and legality issues with keeping fuel at home!

I'm hoping that we'll eventually see more E85 at the servos and we'll also be able to work out who keeps what brew etc.

Apparently the setup costs for a servo to keep E85 are considerable. It's not just a matter of emptying an existing tank, slapping an E85 tag on it and saying "fill 'er up with the good gear mate" when the tanker pulls up.

It shouldn't be this hard! If the gubberment would just push ethanol fuels a bit more then things would change. But now that fuel prices are down and the world economy has turned to shit they've kinda got other things on their mind...

If GM/Ford would just release their flex-fuel vehicles here I'm sure we'd see some action too.

PL